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I will only approve of the strike against the Soviets under the following conditions:
1) China (excluding Tibet, which is a non-important backwater) is fully conquered and our infrastructure projects in China are completed,
While the fall of the Ma's is a prerequisite, we don't have to have finished the rail to level 4 all the way, most of the last western warlord (who's name escapes me) is already better and a level 3 can supply a couple of Homengun.
2) our defensive perimeter in the Pacific is secured, that means that the most important islands are under our control,
That is irrelevant as the bulk of the army is not in any way involved in this.
3) when it becomes clear that the British Empire will either not attack us OR after we secure the oil fields in the Southeast Asia and we are sure that we can hold the British off in Southeast Asia,
This is borderline as some army units will be needed to keep the British back, but if we make a major infantry build we should be good.
Otherwise the bulk of our army will sit and tweedle until the navy defeats the US fleets.
4) when it appears that Germany has a real chance to win the war OR when it becomes clear that without our help, they will collapse.
They are losing as we speak, they got bad from start was long about taking France and haven't won much ground against the Soviets, were the Soviets has had a half year to prepare. The purpose is not so much to defeat the Soviets, but more to bind huge amounts of troops, capture 250 resources and 25 factories, thereby enabling the Germans to defeat the Soviets while the navy work the US fleet.
 
*Infrastructure/AA/air bases/whatever in China, Mongolia etc. is funded by the Army, so no need for the Navy's approval. The Navy is responsible for the Pacific islands and also doesn't need the Army's approval.

GARs stationed on Pacific islands are Navy-controlled. I will create a list of them and post it in the next update. The Navy is also expected to defend the Pacific islands, while the Army is responsible for mainland Asia. Naturally, major offensives will be conducted by the Army, while transport and naval support will be provided by the Navy.

Obviously, anyone can make suggestions, but the Navy/Army will have a final word in a given matter.

So the army shouldn't plan to build Gar for pacific islands, I would have thought that was our responsibility??? is that only the rule in the Pacific theatre outlines in the last post?
 
While the fall of the Ma's is a prerequisite, we don't have to have finished the rail to level 4 all the way, most of the last western warlord (who's name escapes me) is already better and a level 3 can supply a couple of Homengun.
This is suicide. We shouldn't repeat the same mistakes we did in China, i.e. underestimating the enemy.

That is irrelevant as the bulk of the army is not in any way involved in this.
How can you treat this as irrelevant? War in the Pacific will obviously consume lots of resources and if we fail to secure our defensive perimeter, I see no reason to start a new war, especially with the Soviet Union.

This is borderline as some army units will be needed to keep the British back, but if we make a major infantry build we should be good.
Otherwise the bulk of our army will sit and tweedle until the navy defeats the US fleets.
I expect to secure at least the Malaya, the Dutch East Indies, Siam and Indochina (whether by diplomacy or force, it doesn't matter). Maybe Burma, but this depends on the extent of the Allied resistance. The terrain is defensible there and Burma could serve as a buffer state between China and India.

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So the army shouldn't plan to build Gar for pacific islands, I would have thought that was our responsibility??? is that only the rule in the Pacific theatre outlines in the last post?
*Japan etc. obviously must be defended by the Army.

Yes, the Navy is expected to garrison the Pacific islands, but it isn't expected to conduct offensives. Also, if the Navy cannot provide forces for a given region, the Army cannot just abandon it, unless a strategic decision was made, ofc.

The Army/Navy budgets will take all these requirements into account. It all depends on how persuasive you can be and on our strategic situation.
 
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Gentelmen!

*He pushes himself back to the war table*

"I apologise for raising my voice here but are you not all forgetting where we stand?" *He looks around the table* "We are the one who were attacked! We are the ones on the defensive!...

...And yet your standing their squabbling over how to invade Siberia. Barmy schemes to create puppet regimes, and to burn all of Asia to the ground? Is this to be our legacy...? Is this the way that we shall be able to reconcile an armistice...? Commander Surt has already shown that we only have about 20% of the strength of these Powers you seek to take on. Do you wish suicide?...and to bring about Japans death with you?

This is not Bushido!

We would become the disgraced Samurai who having killed the women and children of the village has lost all his honour, and his only redemption is seppuku... Where is our Righteousness, our respect and benevolence...? I do not doubt your loyalty and courage, but it would be foolish to call these outrageous offensive operations sensible battleplan.


Five years ago we gathered. Five years ago we set on a plan to expand China into the Great Empire of the Rising Sun. We did not gather to carve up all of Asia, to see it burnt to the ground, and to wage war on the Soviets or Americans! Yet...as the years passed this is where we have found ourselves. This is the time to stop and rethink how Japan is going to save her empire now it is threatened by nigh on the rest of the major powers of the world.

We are on the defensive Generals and Admiral. Not on some crazy last charge into the heat of battle. Is defeat a victory?


Indochina is a mistake, Xinjiang is a mistake. Tibet, Borneo, Indonesia, Australia, NZ. All mistakes. Lengthened borders, more ports, more garrisons, more supplies, more wars. If we charge off into these reaches we shall lack the resources to defend them. As quickly as we have taken them, or not, we shall be thrown into defence after defence. Because that is where we are. On the defensive.

Sometimes it pays to attack on the defence; the race for the high ground. If we take Americas pacific ports, their more powerful navy is at a disadvantage. Simple.

We get embroiled in South China, we just extend our battle-line down the hills slopes, negating the advantage we have fought for. Pacific supremacy.

Understand that the navy cannot be everywhere, to protect every convoy, against every threat, all the time. No matter our ambitions. We should only take what we can hold. This Admiral would much rather see the rest of the world become the war mongers that our brave warriors can go down with their honour intact, rather than to see them come home disgraced.


*He stands up*


Thankyou for clarifying our pacific position.

What I meant to imply was that our CAGs are acting from land bases at the moment, not our fleets. Therefore only rebase enough CAGs from China to the 3rd fleet to make it operational for naval patrols should be undertaken. The other carrier fleets would mostly be at port as things stand where they shall stay to prevent us loosing ships in an early rash naval action. However if those ships are need to return damaged ships from the Battlefleet or to support a naval battle, then the CAGs can temporally be taken from China to equip them for use in a support roll.

The 3rd Fleet should support the Phillipino attack....And then Guam as is needed.

I believe that the Land Focus should still be a priority, since our naval air groups will be utilised to support military landings. The 'Big Guns of the Fleet' can't fire over the horizon with accuracy to support the marines can then...? *Chuckles; obviously making a joke at the Old Guard of the Navy* I might say that, but those guns will still be critical in shore bombardment. My point being, the better able we are to decisively conduct naval landings against the Americans, and the better our CAGs are in multi-role fighting, the more capable we shall be in duel operational theatres. We do however need better marine attack ordinance! for the Patrol Bombers we do have.

Given that it has now come to my attention that we have lost aircraft wings in the battle theater they need to be added to the mass mobilisation production queue 2-2-2.


Like I have said, setting fire to Indochina is not honourable, it would give us bases against the Colonial Powers, but at the cost of us having to maintain those bases, those borders, the supply upkeep. We are not going to reap the benefits. Indeed it may be more profitable to diplomatically at least ask them (Indochina) and Siam in diplomatic forum if they would enter a mutual alliance with us, much like we did with Guangxi. We might be threatening to them that its a smart move, or perhaps they feel too threatened. Either way, nothing lost in trying to independently unite them with us. That would be a much stronger strategic position, rather than weakening ourselves.

If Indochina stays neutral*, then it is simply the mountains and jungles of Burma that we need fortify. We shall likely need some form of supply line out there, which would do well in the fall of China to construct. If the Colonial Powers support the Americans then we shall bury them in those hills and they shall still be rejected those ports as if we owned them.

At least this way we don't have to put supply shipments there with undue risk.

To this end we should not seek to enrage the Colonial Powers, if we can prevent a solidification of alliances against us, so much the better. If that unfortunate chain of events does come to pass, then we make the same offer as we do the Americans and take all of Indonesia, Borneo etc. and then possibly New Zealand or Australia which would then be the end bargaining piece. We give you back your territory there, but we claim some of your ex-colonies as reparation for their aggression and in the sprit of the liberation of Asia!

*He glances at his notes*

*Oh yes, no passive stance for the air force in china...what a preposterous idea. Leave them on aggressive operations. The Chinese barely have any air force or ability to shoot down our aircraft. Given it was the infantry who let the bases become overrun it is their fault for their overall loss. Still it is somewhat my fault not to have been explicitly giving orders along the lines of evacuation as the enemy attack neared.

From now on I shall make it a standing order that when the enemy get within 15km of an airbase in China to pull out the aircraft to prevent their loss.

Having said that, it might be worth taking two heavy fighter wings, and the heavy bombers to level every airbase we can reach...just to make sure. Bombers bomb, scrabbling fighters get shot down by our 'escorts'.

* Light fighter groups can rebase to the Pacific Islands, namely Saipan or to Clark Field once it is taken for actions there. But the Heavy fighter should continue in their interdiction and ground attack rolls in China, along with our Heavy/Medium/Light bombers.

Should an American fleet appear off the Home Islands or Chinese coast, they should redeploy for naval strikes against the fleet.

Only if the Americans start widespread bombing of Saipan or Kawalijein etc. should we rebase any more fighters there. As it stands I believe this maybe unlikely, given the need to supply support these tenuous supply lines. However perhaps the Americans won't think this through.

*We need to forget about avenging ourselves against the Russians for the time being, although leave in place the works we have to defend the common border.

*Forget expanding intelligence operations in the local regions, it's not particularly useful now we are at war. If we do conduct any intelligence operations they should be focused at disrupting our foes production efforts!

*As I've said before the Garrisons should be top priority, then our Cls and naval builds, then our air builds, then factory/infra.projects and only then start to consider modern mechanised ground troops, and expanding the number of troop divisions. Remember more infantry means more supply, far away from Japan this will become a major issue!

I reject the notions of medium armour, we do not have good enough current knowledge or are likely to gain that knowledge in the near future. Mechanised units build off our Armoured Car knowledge, and TDs are fairly low in requirement...unlike armour. Remember that heavy equipment fairs very poorly in bad terrain...hence why it should not be pursued. L.Armour is much more 'cost effective'.

*Since the Chinese diplomatic unity is broken, the continuation of efforts should focus on the nationalists.

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*Alternatively Indochina might just collapse anyhow...
 
My Dear Admiral Yamamoto...

While your words make some sense, your mind is clearly lost between pacifism and defeatism. I have seen your discussions and your reports. The Admirals of the Navy always *love* to talk about "stretched supply lines" and "not annoying the colonial powers". Now, however, the reality kicked you in the face. While the Army has been fighting for months - oh, sorry, it's years now - in China, you have been sitting comfortably in your chairs and devising strategies to "delay the American entry" or "prepare for war in 1942", never realising that even the Americans may realise that it is better to attack us sooner than later.

Here and now is the place and time for action. The Americans will grow more powerful every day - we cannot hope to keep up the pace with the mighty US industry. Therefore, we need to cause shock, we need to make them RESPECT us. In fact, you said it yourself - if they realise that they will never win this war unless they kill every single Japanese on the planet, they will not just charge mindlessly, but sit on the negotiating table.

Although I agree with General Surt that taking Indochina after ALL French authority collapses may be a better idea than conquering Indochina now, I still believe that sooner or later this territory needs to be secured. There are only two or three important cities there, but they contain air and naval bases which we will need. Strong occupation force will not be required - two or three garrison divisions should be sufficient, the Army budget can handle it. We can talk about securing Siam AFTER Indochina is ours.

Admiral, if you believe that Indochina is a waste of effort, then clearly you must be living in an imaginary reality. Where do you think we are supposed to take oil from now? And how exactly do you expect not to annoy the British if we know that they have strong political, economical and cultural ties with the Americans?

However, I agree that war with the Soviet Union would be very unfavourable for us at the moment and that we should not waste our spies on pointless missions. Therefore, I recommend to close our Guangxi spy network. Let's focus on China and the USA instead.

I also believe that land focus for our CAGs may be a good idea, but only if we expand our bomber force. If the Navy has enough money to design and build modern naval bombers or reserve CAGs operating from airfields, then I am sure that our infantrymen will appreciate every bomb our airplanes drop on the heads of enemy soldiers. However, I also want to emphasise the importance of shore bombardment - the most industrialised cities and provinces with the best infrastructure are located in coastal areas, where heavy firepower of our battleships can be of great help to our soldiers. Aircraft should be used deeper inland, where the BB guns cannot reach.

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*BTW I've been thinking about the way occupation and annexation work in HOI3... If (when) China falls, I think that I should edit the save game to create sensible borders. Therefore, we will not have to worry about Guangxi taking too much territory etc. It's not that they would be in a position to dictate land grabs. What do you think?
 
The US won't respect us more if we move into another country which has currently nothing at all to do with the various wars. If we want to shock them, we need to take out their puppet ally, the Philippines, and occupy their Pacific holdings. We also need to sink their fleets to actually impress them, because we can only get them to concede defeat if we can show them that no matter how many ships they send out, all of them will be sunk.
 
The US won't respect us more if we move into another country which has currently nothing at all to do with the various wars. If we want to shock them, we need to take out their puppet ally, the Philippines, and occupy their Pacific holdings. We also need to sink their fleets to actually impress them, because we can only get them to concede defeat if we can show them that no matter how many ships they send out, all of them will be sunk.
I agree, mostly. I already advocated the strike against the Philippines and Guam in the first months of war. Then we can carefully start attacking their other holdings, but only after PHI and Guam are secured.

However, we shouldn't just send our fleets mindlessly into the ocean - they should only actively search for the enemy's fleets when a given region needs to be secured and when we are certain that we can fight the battle on our terms.

When the US Navy loses a destroyer or a cruiser, it's an acceptable loss from their perspective, as long as our vessels were damaged or sunk. On the other hand, when we lose ships, it's a minor victory for the enemy in itself.
 
The Administration has been carefully monitoring Your discussion and wants to make a recommendation that could aid You in war planning. The Administration recommends the appointment of Ginjiro Fujiwara, an expert in industrial matters, for the position of Armaments Minister. He is a man who knows how to get the job done and how to cooperate effectively with the Imperial Administration. Some would even describe him as a genius of sorts.

We project that if we mobilise our economy and allow Ginjiro Fujiwara to do his magic, our industrial capacity will be increased by almost 30% (163->207). It should benefit our research budget and increase our status in Asia, too (Major Power [15 LP] -> Greater Power [20 LP]). We would present ourselves as de facto rulers of the Continent, as no other Asian country can match our economic and military capabilities (the Administration believes that the Soviet Union is an European country and does not belong in Asia). These benefits should outweigh the decrease in supply production that the current Armaments Minister handled so effectively.
 
The Administration has been carefully monitoring Your discussion and wants to make a recommendation that could aid You in war planning. The Administration recommends the appointment of Ginjiro Fujiwara, an expert in industrial matters, for the position of Armaments Minister. He is a man who knows how to get the job done and how to cooperate effectively with the Imperial Administration. Some would even describe him as a genius of sorts.

We project that if we mobilise our economy and allow Ginjiro Fujiwara to do his magic, our industrial capacity will be increased by almost 30% (163->207). It should benefit our research budget and increase our status in Asia, too (Major Power [15 LP] -> Greater Power [20 LP]). We would present ourselves as de facto rulers of the Continent, as no other Asian country can match our economic and military capabilities (the Administration believes that the Soviet Union is an European country and does not belong in Asia). These benefits should outweigh the decrease in supply production that the current Armaments Minister handled so effectively.

Is our current armaments minister totally inefficient or what does he do for our nation?

If he is not very good it sounds like a really good idea to replace him and gear up and declare us selves Greater Power, that will teach the USA!!!
 
The US won't respect us more if we move into another country which has currently nothing at all to do with the various wars. If we want to shock them, we need to take out their puppet ally, the Philippines, and occupy their Pacific holdings. We also need to sink their fleets to actually impress them, because we can only get them to concede defeat if we can show them that no matter how many ships they send out, all of them will be sunk.

There is no reason to discuss that we try to take out the Philippine lackeys of the USA and all their pacific bases, but this is only an exorcise for the navy and a few Marines and Garrison (and temporarily 2 Homengun).

My point is that none of this impacts our land forces significantly.
 
We really need those IC right now, so a change is very advisable.

I'd strongly recommend to invest the additional leadership in research, diplomatics or officer training. We really don't need spy cells in foreign countries right now, instead we need the bright minds of our people focussing on the best ways to defeat our enemies. Espionage has proven to be too unreliable.
 
We really need those IC right now, so a change is very advisable.

I'd strongly recommend to invest the additional leadership in research, diplomatics or officer training. We really don't need spy cells in foreign countries right now, instead we need the bright minds of our people focussing on the best ways to defeat our enemies. Espionage has proven to be too unreliable.

While I agree that we should not invest a major amount in espionage, we still need to have some buffer of free spies, also we should help our puppets in counter espionage (once they get 10 I don't expect them to lose any again).

I would suggest using 1 LS extra in officers, 0.05 LS extra in diplomacy, 0.25 extra in espionage until our puppets have 10 spies working for them, the rest in research.
 
I disagree about puppets - if they get problems, we will sort them out by force. Military espionage in the USA is more important, as are our propaganda efforts in China.

We should also decrease taxes in Japan, as our fiscal condition is fine. On the other hand, I would advocate for a more repressive policy in areas controlled by the communists - we should show them no mercy and utilise every factory and rice field they have to the fullest.
 
Puppets who are not bothered by enemies disrupting research and production are worth more to us.

I also don't have a problem with repressing the commies (are they member of cominter? if so they go into GIE?).

Lower taxes should be good for the home front.

But I don't see the point in military espionage against the USA, it doesn't change what they have, nor what they can produce and their espionage budget far exceeds our possibilities.
 
Puppets who are not bothered by enemies disrupting research and production are worth more to us.

I also don't have a problem with repressing the commies (are they member of cominter? if so they go into GIE?).

Lower taxes should be good for the home front.

But I don't see the point in military espionage against the USA, it doesn't change what they have, nor what they can produce and their espionage budget far exceeds our possibilities.
At the moment we have only one puppet and I did not notice any major political crises in the last years.

The Chinese communists are not part of the Comintern - personally, I believe that their relations with the SU are strained and that Stalin wants to focus on Europe.

Military espionage is important in order establish what the USA has at its disposal, how much more industrial capacity they have and what are their research priorities. Intelligence about the location of their ships may be useful, too. In order to limit detection I think that our spies should keep a low profile ("None" mission). When the spy network is secured, we can start disrupting US research.
 
At the moment we have only one puppet and I did not notice any major political crises in the last years.

The Chinese communists are not part of the Comintern - personally, I believe that their relations with the SU are strained and that Stalin wants to focus on Europe.

Military espionage is important in order establish what the USA has at its disposal, how much more industrial capacity they have and what are their research priorities. Intelligence about the location of their ships may be useful, too. In order to limit detection I think that our spies should keep a low profile ("None" mission). When the spy network is secured, we can start disrupting US research.

I'm afraid that any other mission than counter-espionage is useless against the USA and that will cost us at least 2 maybe 4 LS to keep up.
 
I agree with Gen Surt here. Time for cloack and dagger is over, we only need to keep up our own anti-espionage services. Even if we manage to establish a sizable spy ring in the USA, they're going to tell us something we know already or something we don't care about anyways.
 
In that case, I think that we should limit our intelligence actions to the minimum and close the intelligence networks everywhere except in China and in Japan (but we should close the spy network in Guangxi as well) and keep the budget at its current, low level. There is no reason to do this partially - we either concentrate just on counter-espionage and very limited actions in China or we increase the intelligence budget and start intensive operations in the USA and the UK (and maybe the SU in the future).
 
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