Fleshing out the minors

[Gurkhal]

This is a thread for ideas about additions to minor nations, at start, so that they can get some flavor and make them interesting to play.

I hope to be able to throw in some interesting stuff in regards to Thebes, Athens, Sparta, Messenia, Troizon, Corinth, Megara and Argos, at least. But I don't promise anything and if anyone has ideas, please feel free to post them as well.

Anyway, first out is Thebes.

Thebes

House of Kadmos - An event where a person shows up and its rumored this person is a direct descendent of Kadmos, the founder of Thebes. The player can let the ruler marry this character and so change the ruling family name to "Kadmidae" (or what it should be in proper ancient Greek at this time) and gain the personality trait "Bloodline of Kadmos" with bonuses to Oratory and Finess, and if the ruler is of this bloodline then gain Casus Belli on all Boiotia and a bonus to the family's prestige.

If possible this could only be fired one time during the game and so not milked by every new family that gets to rule Thebes.

Distant friends - An event with visitors from far away and the player's ruler can get friends and positive relations with Levantine or Persian character or state. The fluff itself may be a minor member of such a state's elite, a merchant or something else.

Curse of blindness – An event where interaction between characters are affected by a blindness, in one way or another, of the participants leading to unforeseen results. Not seldom of a tragic nature but some times also to joy and prosperity. The common thread should however be that just like Pentheus, Oedipus and Creon are all blind to what they are doing, and stumbles into disaster when the truth is finally revealed to them so the characters come into situations where unforseen consequences lies behind seemingly obvious solutions to the situations.

Just like with the "House of Kadmos" it would be nice if there are several different situations, and none can be brought up more than once in a single game, and all of them will not show up in a single game either.

Melting pot: Kadmean culture: Mix between Greek and Levantine in a state with both Boiotian and Levantine cultures, and ruled by Thebes or where a ruler of Thebes is married to a spouse of the Levantine culture. Possibly allowing the player to decide if the Kadmean culture should lean towards the Greek or Levantine part of its composition.

 

[Gurkhal]

Arise thread, arise from cold of Hades and see the light once more!

Its time for another idea from me and I hope that this comes out in an understandable way.

Kinship

This time it’s to introduce an idea for a concept that I think could be a uniquely suited to the ancient world (and somewhat for the medieval but I think it’s more important in the ancient one); the concept of kinship. This is an idea that feelings and identification with each other as somehow being related, true or not, and with a political relevance could be something which sets Imperator a bit apart and also open up for new angles in regards to character management and also make marriages more impactful.

I am aware that the culture thing touches on this, but I feel there's space for developing this concept a bit more.

The way I see it there are three kinds of kinship; ancestral, personal and communal.

Ancestral is a kinship based on mythological connections. Such as kinship between groups based on mythological basis. For example links between supposed descendents of Herakles or the claim of Epirote nobility to be descended from Achilles would be examples of ancestral kinship.

Personal kinship is a tie between a single person who belonging to one community to another one that is not shared by the person's primary community at large. And which can also extend to families having such ties. Examples of this are the Tarquinai kings in Rome and the Argead dynasty in Makedonia. Both of which ruled in their own right but clearly traced, and were accepted while doing so, ties back to another group than their primary community where they resided and ruled.

Communal kinship is finally a kinship which has gone down in the classes so that pretty much all the elite and the citizenry accept, through extensive and extended ties, that they are kin with another community. This is naturally a very big thing as that means that the feelings and ties of kinship have spread through the community to the point that its not just a matter of "them" but of "us" feeling like we have a shared connection between the communities. Examples of this would be between Athens and Ionian cities which, at least officially, prompted, to my understanding, Athenian intervention in the Ionian Greeks’ revolt against the Persians that set off the Greco-Persian Wars.

There would, in my opinion, be two ways for kinship to come into being; ancestral "facts" and marriages. And that these links can be between states or within a state. If it’s between states then it involves the primary culture of the two states while if it’s within a state it involves the primary culture and another culture.

PS: Please not that kinships should be able to deteriorate if insufficient marriage ties exists to propagate the ties between the parts. Hence keeping up the kinship relations would require some maintenance.

Types of kinship and some ideas for what they could mean

Ancestral

In both internal and external kinship ties ancestral kinship "only" essentially drastically lowers the bar needed to be past in order to create personal and communal kinship ties. Hence due to its rather passive role it’s not all that easy to manage but can pave the way, if the player would like to walk that way, to create kinship ties with other groups sharing this ancestral kinship.

Personal

- Bonus to happiness when a governor with a kinship to a culture governs POPs of that culture

- If people have kinship with another state than there's a slight growth of positive relations to that state for every person with kinship ties

- For every person in an elite family with a kinship to another state, then any declaration of war against that state will cause a drop in loyalty from these people

- When there are sufficient people with a personal kinship to another culture within the state or another state, then the chance to form a communal kinship will arise.

Communal

- Constant increase in diplomatic relations between the states

- Large bonus to happiness from the POPs that would not be part of an accepted culture if the accepted culture has a kinship with them

- Bonus to happiness in POPs of the cultures involved when positive dealings are done between two states sharing a communal kinship

- Penalty to happiness in POPs in the state if it engages in hostile dealings with the state that it has a communal kinship with

- Massive stability hit if a declaration of war is made against a state you have a a communal kinship with

- Allow for synokismos where city-states and local powers can be absorbed into other states, peacefully

- Possibility to make a culture within a state that the dominant culture has a communal kinship with into an accepted culture of that state

 

[tribunus_plebis]

First, this is a great thread with a lot of juicy flesh highly needed for Greece.

If I may suggest a little proposal:

I've noticed a limited number of Great Buildings/Monuments that are present in the Greek/Aegean sphere that contain modifiers, although it would be even better if these buildings would trigger events. So far, we have: Temple of Zeus in Olympia, the Temple of Artemis in Ephesos, Mausoleum in Halikarnassos and other building in Pergamon which I forgot.

To really flesh out the area in a more realistic and immersive fashion, I think there should be added (with the gfx and all)
- Temple of Apollo in Delphi (bonus in: omens, tax income)
- Temple of Athena in Athens -the Parthenon- (bonus in: research, political influence). This could replace the modifier present by the Academy.
- Temple of Aphrodite in Korinthos (bonus in: trade income, citizen happiness).

On second level, I would also add:
-Temple of Hera in Paestum or Samos (bonus in: character loyalty, stability)
-Temple of Asklepios in Epidauros (bonus in: freeman happiness, pop growth)
-Temple of Poseidon in Sounion (bonus in: navy recruitment speed and experience).

 

[Gurkhal]

@tribunus_plebis : Thanks

New and very minor suggestion from me. Not really tied to Greece but I didn't feel it needed a whole thread for itself.

That is the concept of coinage and debasement of it. From an uninformed perspective I'm not going to make lots of details but I thought maybe this could be something to add in order to expand the economical side of the game. That is that you, as a soverign state, needs to mint your own money and that requires gold and silver, to be taken seriously. And that in connection with an expanded economic model this could add something which I feel could be interesting and allow more player interaction with the economy.

 

[Ketchup & friends]

First, this is a great thread with a lot of juicy flesh highly needed for Greece.

If I may suggest a little proposal:

I've noticed a limited number of Great Buildings/Monuments that are present in the Greek/Aegean sphere that contain modifiers, although it would be even better if these buildings would trigger events. So far, we have: Temple of Zeus in Olympia, the Temple of Artemis in Ephesos, Mausoleum in Halikarnassos and other building in Pergamon which I forgot.

To really flesh out the area in a more realistic and immersive fashion, I think there should be added (with the gfx and all)
- Temple of Apollo in Delphi (bonus in: omens, tax income)
- Temple of Athena in Athens -the Parthenon- (bonus in: research, political influence). This could replace the modifier present by the Academy.
- Temple of Aphrodite in Korinthos (bonus in: trade income, citizen happiness).

On second level, I would also add:
-Temple of Hera in Paestum or Samos (bonus in: character loyalty, stability)
-Temple of Asklepios in Epidauros (bonus in: freeman happiness, pop growth)
-Temple of Poseidon in Sounion (bonus in: navy recruitment speed and experience).

If the devs implement this, the Parthenon in Athens should be added to this list as well.

We have also created a thread for suggestions on Religion. Among our ideas are a buildable Jewish Temple and the Irminsul in Germania. Feel free to add your ideas there!

 

[tribunus_plebis]

@tribunus_plebis : Thanks

New and very minor suggestion from me. Not really tied to Greece but I didn't feel it needed a whole thread for itself.

That is the concept of coinage and debasement of it. From an uninformed perspective I'm not going to make lots of details but I thought maybe this could be something to add in order to expand the economical side of the game. That is that you, as a soverign state, needs to mint your own money and that requires gold and silver, to be taken seriously. And that in connection with an expanded economic model this could add something which I feel could be interesting and allow more player interaction with the economy.

Couldn't agree more.

If the game ever wants to extend its timeline, a major economic overhaul is required. Historically, debasement of currency, specially silver, was one of the main elements that in the long run devastated Roman economy through astronomical inflation, leading up to the reforms by Diocletian to institute tax payment in kind instead of currency (and thus, paving the way to the medieval economy).

 

[Gurkhal]

Here's another idea which I suggested in the old "Rome II Suggestions" thread think could be included for increased domestic politics; land owning.

This was both an issue in ancient Greece throughout its history from Archaic to Hellenistic times and also, as most probably know, a big one in Rome that created much conflict between socio-economical classes. And I would imagine that land holding and land owning was also a very important issue in other cultures and places across the ancient world.

I hope to get back to this with a more in-depth suggestion later but for now I'll present this.

Land Owning

Each province has a value to the agricultural lands it possesses. Mountains will have less, the Nile-valley will have more and so on. Now to this also comes value as to who owns what and there are four candidates; local Freemen or local Citizens, a character from a great family or the state itself.

If Freemen or Citizens owns the land then the happiness and productivity of those POPs will be agumented in accordance with the wealth they can draw from the agricultural lands in their possession. Likewise there's a penalty to the happiness of the Freemen in accordance with how disproportionally they don't own land after their make-up of the population.

If a character from a great family owns the land then they draw a direct income from that land.

If the state owns the land then there's an income to the state from the land and the ability to essentially sell it to either Freemen, Citizens or a character, or even give it as a reward.

To this comes this mechanic.

There's a constant dripping loss of control over land from all possibler owners towards characters, representing their ability to corrupt official or pressure smaller farmers to allow the magnates to increase their estates. Big examples of this is the concentration of wealth in Hellenistic Sparta, Republican Rome and the political turmoil in Archaic Athens over lands and related issues.

 

[cptcoco307]

Greeks minor should be able to form leagues like they did in the real live. By exemple, they mostly band together agin the persians. By exemple, if macedonia wand invade a greek city, all cities on the mainland should be able to join again macedonia.. Maybe, it will be fun to have an eu4 HRE mechanic for the greeks. But the empror or the hegemon could be free if one greek isn't enough dominant.

I don't know if it implanted in the game, all greek minors should have flavors to unify all greek cities or states (not including the sucessors states)

Athen, thebes and spartes should have the hability to restore their former empire or league (delain league, peoloppenesis league and beotian league).

 

[Gurkhal]

This is a suggestion I am a bit unsure about myself but I decided to throw it out and see what people think of it. That is that instead of Great Families we organize characters according to oikos or household.

Households instead of families

The basic idea is thus that every adult male with no living father has an oikos to which his unmarried female siblings, children and spouse are gathered to live together and manage their common holdings (that should really be expanded upon but that's another issue) and that its primarily within the oikos that inheritance takes place.* Not to mention inheritance of traits as people are often shaped by the people they grow up with and the impact of marriages could more easily be be considered without clicking around and with that concepts might perhaps be expanded on. Hence a son might take after a beloved aunt or inspiring tutor rather than his distant and career-minded father who is always away on official business.

An oikos power and bonus to its members is thus calculated to be the economical strength of the oikos, the offices held by its kyrios (or head of the household) and his sons as well as what illusterious ancestors can be counted to them. Thus I also propose that when a character dies, the game calculates how much he, or she, is worth and if (s)he has prestige, prominance, wealth etc. enough (s)he'll not be forgotten by history but instead become an illusterous ancestor that gives a bonus to all his future descendents. Hence it can both open for a return of the multitude of families, which some liked and some didn't and I personally liked, and it would also offer a better overview for the player to deal with inheritances among the characters, kinship and also open up the issue of ancestors. Now this part if partly done by the bloodline traits but I figure that it could be expanded upon and bloodlines are static while the possibility of ancestors could perhaps be shaped into a more dynamic form.

*And if Imperator would expand on the character issue, the possibility of other characters such as tutors, high profile slaves, lovers and various parts of the household could be added. Thus perhaps opening the door for more interaction, and bonuses from such characters to the members of the oikos.

 

[Gurkhal]

As part of continuing my smaller suggestions series I have decided to post a new idea. Primary inspiration is the Later Roman centralization of power and, to my understanding, killing off of the local elites. But also some from centralization drives in other places.

Local rule

The basic idea is that the player can decide between having decentralized or centralized power and that this influences what influence the local Citizen POPs have in their communities.

Hence the more decentralized the happier the Citizen POPs are and the greater the chance for events that spawns free buildings and upgrades and other free stuff from local elites offering patronage to their local communities and that fortresses and troops have their upkeep reduced if assigned to the province. The down side is that there is a greatly reduce speed in cultural and religious conversion (you can decide yourself if this is a boon or downside) and also that less taxes are sent to the central government.

A more centralized rule on the other hand means that there's less chance of free stuff events as people look more to the government to do things, reduction to the happiness of Citizen POPs, and that there's a drive for Citizen POPs to either become Freemen or move to the capital in order to get closer to real power and that cultural and religious conversion to the state policy is increased (you can decide yourself if this is good or bad) but at the same time there's also the fact that tax comes in better.

One possibility could also be that great decentralization means a kind of bottom for how bad a monarch can affect his state and a roof on how good he can perform in the same state.

 

[Basileus2]

@tribunus_plebis : Thanks

New and very minor suggestion from me. Not really tied to Greece but I didn't feel it needed a whole thread for itself.

That is the concept of coinage and debasement of it. From an uninformed perspective I'm not going to make lots of details but I thought maybe this could be something to add in order to expand the economical side of the game. That is that you, as a soverign state, needs to mint your own money and that requires gold and silver, to be taken seriously. And that in connection with an expanded economic model this could add something which I feel could be interesting and allow more player interaction with the economy.

Oh, I'd love this...would be great to be able to track your coinage debasement. It could affect your armies / mercenaries (if too low, they might revolt or it'll reduce your manpower as its less attractive to enter the military), how much it costs to build buildings, citizen / freeman pop happiness, etc.

 

[Gurkhal]

Oh, I'd love this...would be great to be able to track your coinage debasement. It could affect your armies / mercenaries (if too low, they might revolt or it'll reduce your manpower as its less attractive to enter the military), how much it costs to build buildings, citizen / freeman pop happiness, etc.

I'm happy you liked it.

*****

Here are a few minor suggestion from in regards to stuff that could perhaps be included.

Interest groups

An idea for a greater interaction with the population and their needs. The basic idea here is that some want or need is shared by a number of different POPs and characters, and that the player can see what they want, how many they are and also what benefit is terms of loyalty, happiness, POP conversion or other effects that giving them what they want could lead to.

More unruly tribesmen

In my, perhaps limited but anyway, experience tribesmen in non-tribal states are far to quiet and behaved. In fact I think that they should be pretty good troublemakers who happily raids neighbors, including the city in the same or a bordering province in the same state, rise in riot or rebellion against increasement in non-tribal POPs or expansion of the city and stuff like that. What I mean to say in short is that tribals should be more willful and aggressive and often giving the finger to the "civilized" state that lords it over them rathern than just be passive aggressive stallers.

And I don't mean that they should be a vehicle to drive people to rage quit the game but they should not be as behaved a I've seen them in this game and be more, well, tribal and don't be to concerned about causing a scene if they get pissed in a, well, uncivilized manner. For example if tribesmen POPs are starving in a provice, they'll get out to raid someone to take their food rather than just wait for the goverment to fix things for them.

As historical examples I would point to the attempt of the Romans to expand past the Rhine, the wars in Spain after the Second Punic War and various raiders in Anatolia.

 

[Gurkhal]

Another minor suggestion from me, this time in regards to minors threatened to be swallowed up by their neighbors and wants to avoid a game over.

Coup

That is for minors like city-states and local powers. The idea is that when such a state is losing a war against a major or great power, then the player can select to have a political coup to peace out of a war in exchange for getting a special faction into power, regardless if its a monarchy, republic or tribe. This special faction is a "Friends of X" faction with X being the larger power they are having peace with.

The effects of getting a "Friends of X" is that a peace is immedietly concluded with a war score for the victory halved and the peace settlement can't include the annexation of the smaller power, but otherwise it works as normal which can lead to land loss, to subjugated status and more. Furthermore having the "Friends of X" in power means that for as long as reasonable, the exact time can be discussed, the defeated power under the rule of "Friends of X" can't go into war against, take any covert action or in general do anything to harm or be hostile towards the victorious power, potentially also switching sides if a war is ongoing.

The idea here is a way for minor powers under player control to avoid destruction by restrictions on their freedom but also allow for minors to actually stand a way to survive against the great behemoths of the age. And perhaps it can also be tied to make, for example, the Hellenistic giants focus on each other and only secondary seek to expand against smaller nations instead of the historical path of fighting each other.

Some restrictions may be imposed but in general I'd rather see it be that minors survives too much rather than to little.

The best examples of this in history is probably the case or Medism in archaic Greece and in particular Thebes' Medism during Xerxes invasion of Greece. At first Thebes was against the Persians and Thebans fought at Thermypolyae but when the alliance of Greece states against the Persians abandoned Thebes, then a party within the Theban oligarchic class Medized and took control over the city and switched sides in the war, fighting on the Persian side in coming battles.

 

[EricMN93]

I will try to contribute flavor ideas and how to improve forgotten places

Events

New formables

When a civilization manages to form a new one, an event should appear indicating that it has happened and be able to react depending on our relations with that civilization.

Suggestion of how it could be:

The tribe / city state / kingdom x (insert name of civilization) has managed to unify / conquer all territory x (name of region) and create a new identity called x (new civilization created).

Depending on the relations with that newly created country we would have several options:

A) We must be alert and prepare for the worst (if we have bad o neutral relations with the new country).
B) Our allies continue to advance towards glory, we cannot be left behind (if we are allies)
C) Our civilization advances towards glory, we must continue improving to achieve immortality (If the player has created the new civilization. Any epic speech would be fine).

Empires

If someone manages to create an empire (600 territories) an event should be indicated.

If an ancient empire is destroyed an event should also appear.

If any of the successor states is completely destroyed a single event should appear.


forgotten areas

Punt (South of the game map, below Kush)

If a faction manages to dominate all points, they should be able to create a new civilization and a new event should appear allowing them to choose the name of their new kingdom. The event could have the following decisions.
1-Called Kingdom of Punt
2-To be called the same as it was but with the rank of kingdom / Great republic / Great horde
Ex: Kingdom of Aksum
3-To be called kingdom x (the name of the ruling family would appear).
Ex: Tahum Kingdom

Punt should have some achievement

Tip: The richness of the desert

requirements: get x resources, x alliances and have x gold

Arabia

If someone manages to unify the entire Arabian peninsula, they should be able to create a new country and get an achievement.

Suggestions:

Formable country. Arabia.

Achievement: The first was not Mohammed

Strategic wealth event

Many civilizations of Punt or Yemen gained great wealth by trading with India and transporting their goods to the Mediterranean, there are already many ideas to improve trade that I would like to see one day but it would be nice if there was an event related to this.

Yuezhi, Himalaya and Sogdia tribes.(The easternmost part of the map, above Bactria and Mauria)

The easternmost civilizations could receive some mysterious event related to China. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT INTRODUCING CHINA xdxd

Examples:

The Sogdian tribes receive an event from a merchant or soldier who has been lost in the mountains and who claims to come from an ancient land.

Thrace

All successor states have unique achievements except Thrace, please add an achievement for them.

Tip: The bodyguard.

Requirements: Destroy the entire dynasty of the assassin of the children of Alexander (Kassander) and recover his body (Have Alexander's treasure or possess
Alexandria)


Black Pharaohs

If kush manages to form Egypt, an event should appear indicating that the XXV dynasty called "the time of the black pharaohs" has returned

Realistic biblical and mythological events

This is somewhat complicated to explain. I do not want mythology in Imperator, but it is true that the societies of this time had beliefs in historical and mythological elements. Maybe something realistic could be done.

Examples:

Saba could have unique events performed with the Saba kingdom of the bible and perhaps have an option to obtain a blood line.

The Jews may have unique events to try to obtain the blood line of David or Solomon.

Druids should have unique events that attempt to reflect their beliefs.

Realistic events related to authentic beliefs that different peoples had.

 

[Gurkhal]

Here comes another idea. I was planning to make a larger suggestions about domestic republican politics but decided instead to divided it up into several smaller ones. This time its about Dictators and Tyrants as separate offices and even form of government.

Dictators and Princeps

The idea here is to expand on pseudo-republican rule through one man without it being a monarchy. That is a one-man rule with the trappings of a republic and without the open displays of power that, at least to me, seems inherited to monarchy. What I propose is that essentially dictatorship is kept but that Princeps is added, under some name or another, and that these two things have a very different kinds of playstyles to them.

A dictatorship should in my opinion be favored by the military, religious and populist factions as that involves one guy taking permanent charge of a republic and pointing with his whole hand on how things are to be done. Meanwhile this kind of disturbance of public affairs are not seen as well by the civic and merchantile factions. Examples of dictators are the Roman Sulla and the Argive Pheidon. But dictatorship already exists in the game so I'll move on to the new addition of "Princeps".

Princeps

A princeps is similar to a dictator but with the difference of that this guys does not hold a public office that grants all power but rather moves behind the scenes, directing and shaping policy according to his will. Examples of this are the Roman Augustus and the Athenian Peisistratos who both allowed their respective republics to work as before, formally, but directed things from behind the scenes. This makes a Princeps more welcome by the civic and merchantile factions who likes the ease of public affairs that this allows.

The mechanical effect from having a princeps govenment is that his stats counts as a bonus to all office holders with a loyalty of +80, just as from a consort to a single man ruler. But at the same time this guy is vulnerable so if more than, say five, public office, research, generals or admirals holders have a loyalty under 75 then Princeps models risk ending. The idea is that if the Princeps can keep his guys in power and keep things smooth he's in for a ride like the two mentioned examples but the fact that the Princeps don't have a formal office for his exercise of the power that he is exercising means that its possible to challenge or even overthrow him in a way that its harder to do against a dictator who is wielding official power without the government with no appeal against it.

And in my opinion it also allows for different playstyles in that a dictator should probably feel pretty heavy-handed and that its based on the support of armies to prop him up. A Princeps on the other hand naturally needs armies but his primary foundation is playing the political system from behind the scenes.

*****

So I guess what I say that a dictator perhaps should primary build his power on force and squashing dissidents and perhaps supported by the lower classes while a princeps should be primary about getting people on his page through networking and massaging egos of characters and nobles, without the use of censurship if at all possible. Another way to look at it is that a dictatorship is a, well, dictatorship, but that a Princeps is more like a republic without the meddling of the common people in politics.

 

[Gurkhal]

Here comes another little one. I was first thinking about making a full thread about the end result didn't feel like they big enough for a thread of their own. This is to flesh out the Samnites a little for those who might be interested in playing a nation that's a bit different and take the Italian penninsula down another path.

Based, or rather inspired by, on the book "Samnium and the Samnites" by E. Salmon

Samnium

Samnite heritage

-5% Light Infantry maintenance cost, +5% Tax Income, -5% Commerce income

Samnium government - Oscan Federal Republic

Works like a normal republic but with two additions. One is that subjects have a +0,5 relation bonus each month towards the Samnite Republic. And that all subjects get a number of votes in the Samnite senate. This means that they have a share in the Samnite politics and that they thus become part of the five senatorial factions.

This is based on the twin ideas of that the Samnites were consistent of five tribes and to our knowledge none of them held dominion over the others, and that in Social Wars the counter-state founded against Rome was, to my admittedly limited knowledge, strongest in Oscan territory and that it was also a federalist state without a hegemon as opposed to a hegemon-dominated system.

 

[Gurkhal]

Fourth Party in a Republic

The idea is that if certain conditions are met, like low loyalty, dissatisfaction or low popularity among the normal party characters, then a fourth party forms around a powerful and popular figure in the state who will push for a one-man rule as either a Dicatator or a Princeps, as I mentioned before in this thread. The main thing is that this would represent the danger from men like Peisistratos or Augustus but also be threat that can, well, evaporate if their chosen leader is disgraced or killed and he don't have a successor with enough popularity or wealth to carry on the struggle inside that party.

Personally I can also see that this could work as an alternative to a civil war where instead of a military conflict you need to manage a civil conflict before time runs out at which time the Tyrannical Party does its coup, or attempt at coup, and takes control over the government or are repulsed in the senate.

 

[Gurkhal]

Ok, I'm a bit tired but I hope this comes off in a coherent way.

The Agora

This idea is based on the presence of a public political space in capital cities to allow for a greater interaction between the player and the common people, namely citizens, freemen and possibly tribesmen as these may not be all that present in cities. Something which I think would be very important for dictatorships and democracies, or even monarchies where the player wants to play while seeking popular as opposed to elite support for his reign. Thus while the senate allows for interaction between the state and characters, the agora would allow for interaction between state and POPs, in particular the Citizens and Freemen.

The idea is that there's an "agora" in every capital which allow options for interaction between player and the common people. Actions like speeches to calm or whip up the people, great public sacrifices and other forms of interaction between the state's leading men and the common people could be represented through this. In particular I think that this would offer options for the democratic party and also a way to make the danger from populists and demagoges better handled than with only a senate to represent political opinion.

As someone smarter than me once said to the effect of; "No ruler can hope to rule without at least one eye on the polls." And this aspect is something which I think could be expanded on in Imperator.

EDITED

 

[Gurkhal]

A very small suggestion.

Thessalians

Allow the creation, or liberation, of Thessaly as an independent state. Such a state would be either a aristocratic republic or aristocratic monarchy, depending on who enforces its creation, and have the Thessalian Heritage (-10% LC maintenance, +5% Discipline and -10% Freemen happiness). Along with the special deity "Athena Itonia" (Passive: +0,01 Monthly Character Loyalty, Oracle: +5% Discipline - War).

Itonia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Gurkhal]

Boiotia I - Bloodlines

I'm making progress on the Boiotia stuff and so I decided to start to post about in several posts rather than single huge post which would take forever to write.

Bloodlines

Bloodlines of Thebes

Blood of Kadmos - Allow a family ruling in the region of Boiotia an oppertunity to marry with the supposed descendents of Kadmos which would re-name the family "Agenorides" (after Kadmos' father, Agenor) and presumably the bloodline should offer bonus to prestige, Martial and Finess as well as a permanent casus belli on Thebes. And perhaps even some benefit for having the capital at Thebes if the ruler is of the Agenorides.

Cadmus - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Agenorides - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If one would be so inclined then one could also allow for some special stuff for this bloodline and characters inheriting it.

Curse of blindness – An event where interaction between characters are affected by a blindness, in one way or another, of the participants leading to unforeseen results. Not seldom of a tragic nature but some times also to joy and prosperity. The common thread should however be that just like Pentheus, Oedipus and Creon are all blind to what they are doing, and stumbles into disaster, so the characters come into situations where unforseen consequences lies behind seemingly obvious solutions to the situations.

Melting pot: Kadmean culture: Mix between Greek and Levantine in a state with both Boiotian and Levantine cultures, and ruled by Thebes or where a ruler of Thebes is married to a spouse of the Levantine culture. Possibly allowing the player to decide if the Kadmean culture should lean towards the Greek or Levantine part of its composition.

Blood of the Spartoi - A more common but also not as powerful bloodline which gives bonus to Martial and Zeal and prestige. Potentially one could have one or two starting nobles families in Thebes start with this bloodline.

Dragon's teeth (mythology) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Bloodline of Orchomenos

Blood of Minyas - The alleged founder Orchomenos and bonus to Finess and Oratory. Casus belli on Orchomenos if ruler and bonus to having the capital at Orchomenos.

Minyas (mythology) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Basileus2]

Here comes another little one. I was first thinking about making a full thread about the end result didn't feel like they big enough for a thread of their own. This is to flesh out the Samnites a little for those who might be interested in playing a nation that's a bit different and take the Italian penninsula down another path.

Based, or rather inspired by, on the book "Samnium and the Samnites" by E. Salmon

Samnium

Samnite heritage

-5% Light Infantry maintenance cost, +5% Tax Income, -5% Commerce income

Samnium government - Oscan Federal Republic

Works like a normal republic but with two additions. One is that subjects have a +0,5 relation bonus each month towards the Samnite Republic. And that all subjects get a number of votes in the Samnite senate. This means that they have a share in the Samnite politics and that they thus become part of the five senatorial factions.

This is based on the twin ideas of that the Samnites were consistent of five tribes and to our knowledge none of them held dominion over the others, and that in Social Wars the counter-state founded against Rome was, to my admittedly limited knowledge, strongest in Oscan territory and that it was also a federalist state without a hegemon as opposed to a hegemon-dominated system.

Ahh, this is cool. I'd love to see a similar level of detail for all the minors.