I think this map is just one of the possible ideas to go in shaping the world.
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- The Soviet Union barely holds together and doubles-down until this point. It's the easiest way to explain why China is the preeminent Communist threat and not the USSR. The USSR is a paper tiger that consolidated whatever power it had left and slid into stagnation. It's the breakup of the EC and the resource wars which give the USSR AI/Player the ability to turn that around.
- The Czechoslovakia created by the Soviets is engulfed wholesale by a more aggressive EC, same with every other nation. They 'leap' at bringing them into the fold. In doing, they end up becoming like the Soviets and preventing the Slovaks from splitting. This becomes a source of tension for Czechoslovakia when the EC splits apart.
- Hungary, in another ironic twist, joins Austria to form the "Center Pact" since no other surrounding nation is at all amenable to helping them out. Austria, meanwhile, is afraid of a resurgent Germany and Italy poking at their borders. Net Result: A quasi-Austria-Hungary.
- The lack of nations was already explained. It's 2060. By this point resources are Very scarce, to the point that all of those myriad third world nations have certainly imploded without Western aid. All that's left are self-appointed regional unions and confederations seeking to assert dominance, centered around key nations like South Africa, Iran, Egypt, Brazil, Argentina, and so on. Naturally the poorer of these are totally inundated with unrest and poverty. I see absolutely no point for smaller nations to exist at this stage; they could never function in such a climate.
- It's 2060 and the Communists have had a field day, so much so that the West is still trapped in Cold War paranoia. We already see mass Muslim migrations from North Africa into Equatorial Africa; fast forward that by 5 decades with Communist assistance.
It seems me in this world nations break apart and fight each other during tough times instead of working together. Even the United Nations is not safe.
As for the whole Soviet, China thing.
Maybe Nixon went to Russia.
I do not know,maybe the islamic nations can be independent,but in a large alliance like ECON,and I still do not get it why have this United South america,as I see fallout bible do not talk about the subcontinent so maybe South america still have the actual borders
A Middle Eastern alliance was just what I was thinking too. Honestly I don't think the countries of the Middle East would ever completely unify into one nation. Too many differences between them. However I do see them joining together an alliance, many Middle Eastern countries did this to fight Israel during the many wars between Israel and the Middle East. I see the same thing with South America, Africa, and Asia.
I present to you the victory screen Logos for....
The Warsaw pact
[/URL] Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/IMG]
and
NATO
[/URL] Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/IMG]
The Warsaw pact
and
NATO
Would NATO exist in this timeline thought? If memory serves, USA became isolationist after WW2 (so it wouldn't firm any international agreement). Without USA (and a apparent lack of Canada in the alliance), there is no reason to change the name "Treaty of Brussels" to NATO. As a matter of fact, it would probably be called "European Commonwealth" or something along those lines. The use of NATO standard ammunition for several weapons is probably a oversight, as most people don't know (or care) enough about them to realize the changes that no-standards would generate (namely that the "rare" types of ammunitions would be more common, and the in-existence of NATO ammo [or at least not called that way]).
The U.S. was in fact involved in interventionism after WW2, as to how far is up for debate. But after Kennan's telegram to Washington in '46 the US policy leaned towards actively preventing the spread of communism abroad. Korea, Vietnam, and Greece are good examples of this.
Isolationism?
The U.S. was isolationist during the Cold War?
We can be very scary sometimes.
Anyway it only seems logical that United States would form such an alliance to fight communism.
Just as it happened our world
Hell, fighting communism is the reason why United States divided itself and the 13 commonwealths.
Also the European commonwealth likely was not always around, and probably formed later in the 20th to early 21st century.
Just like the European Union it probably took time to form, and the European union is just a loose affiliation of nations.
To form something like the commonwealth would either take a little longer, or would have to have great support from the member nations.
As for the state of NATO in the mid 21st century, with the whole resource wars going down.
The rise of China, and the European commonwealth, also the fact that the Soviet Union didn't collapsed in this world.
NATO is most likely in hard times.
And lastly it would be boring just have only one alliance in the game so.... Isn't that reason enough?
The U.S. was isolationist during the Cold War?
We can be very scary sometimes.
Anyway it only seems logical that United States would form such an alliance to fight communism.
Just as it happened our world
Hell, fighting communism is the reason why United States divided itself and the 13 commonwealths.
Also the European commonwealth likely was not always around, and probably formed later in the 20th to early 21st century.
Just like the European Union it probably took time to form, and the European union is just a loose affiliation of nations.
To form something like the commonwealth would either take a little longer, or would have to have great support from the member nations.
As for the state of NATO in the mid 21st century, with the whole resource wars going down.
The rise of China, and the European commonwealth, also the fact that the Soviet Union didn't collapsed in this world.
NATO is most likely in hard times.
And lastly it would be boring just have only one alliance in the game so.... Isn't that reason enough?
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I present to you the victory screen Logos for....
The Warsaw pact
[/URL] Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/IMG]
and
NATO
[/URL] Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/IMG]
This look awesome
And what do you think about an even firing during the 1960s for every national in WP and NATO about the idea of vaults?As I see in cold war all governments have his own bunker,so maybe Vault Tech can propose this to their governments,this would liberate a new tech team,the Vault Tech
Maybe. However the sixties will not be covered, I think I'm sure of that.This look awesome
And what do you think about an even firing during the 1960s for every national in WP and NATO about the idea of vaults?As I see in cold war all governments have his own bunker,so maybe Vault Tech can propose this to their governments,this would liberate a new tech team,the Vault Tech
However the idea for an underground shelter safe from the apocalypse is an old one.
So by the mid 21st century in the fallout world with resources running low, the end of the United Nations, a limited nuclear exchange in the Middle East, a virus spreading across America, food riots, China rising prominence, the American government run by extremists, and the Cold War with no end in sight.
The people of the fallout world had a lot to be afraid of.
So then comes Vault-tec offering safety from a world in chaos for price... A price we later find out is not just the money in your bank account, but also the life of you and your family for cruel and inhumane experiments.
On the one hand, I'm not well versed in Cold War history. On the other, those examples are valid for actual history; not necessarily for Fallout history. Unfortunately, I haven't found sources leading to either direction. At the very least, Korea was more probably not divided; otherwise the Chinese would have invaded south Korea either along with or shortly after Alaska (not doing so leads to a hostile country far too close for comfort that military depends on your currently enemy). On the same note, I wonder why China didn't invade Japan.
The interventionist (and somewhat questionable) policies of USA IRL during Cold War are a moot point: We're talking about a universe that runs on 50's "science" and was unable to create more efficient engines. I'm guessing that any policy that allows USA the be the only superpower in the world is fair game, but I fail to see how (for instance) helping the European countries would do that. Yes, you gain a potentially powerful ally against URSS, but you are also feeding a potential rival superpower (As Europe was for a good part of history).Isolationism?
The U.S. was isolationist during the Cold War?
We can be very scary sometimes.
GRANTED: The 13 commonwealths were created to "strengthen" the internal structure of USA (note that it was counterproductive) to stand against communism. That doesn't necessarily mean international alliances. Real life USA didn't (probably cause wasn't seen as necessarily, or sane), but they did associate themselves with other powers.Anyway it only seems logical that United States would form such an alliance to fight communism.
Just as it happened our world
Hell, fighting communism is the reason why United States divided itself and the 13 commonwealths.
According to what I can collect from the fallout wiki, the union of Europe was quicker that what you give it credit. For instance, the Treaty of Rome was 16 years early, the "Western European Union" established a pan-European army based in the Treaty of Brussels (hard to say since when, but somewhere between 1948 and 1996). Having a unified army means that the European commonwealth can't be "loose affiliation of nations" (not more than the constituent states of RL USA). In fact, I consider that this could only be possible if the general public see the USSR as a bigger threat than IRL (one way is not having USA helping them) or the guy making the time-line not caring.
If NATO did exist, then it was inoperative by the Resource War. Why? Simple: there is no mention to outside help to or against USA during it. Also, there are no references to USA help in the European war (not even "in spirit", for instance formal declaration of war).
From a gameplay perspective, it makes more sense. However, China should probably have it's own alliance (to avoid the IA making peace and reflect the virtual Chinese's control of southeast Asia and other portions). Besides, USA plus all of Europe against Middle east would be overkill (and leave USA open for a Chinese attack)
I will check in Fallout wikia if China was in Warsaw pact or if she was alone,or even in his own alliance,wait a bit
WOW,here have many information about china:
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/China
Their chairman was Cheng : http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Chairman_Cheng
And the president was Xin : http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Xin
She seems to be the world mightest power,even Bigger than USA,and have many agents operating in american land (like the Chinese remnants),so she problably have even more IC than american,and more resources,except Oil
Oh,and in Fallout Timeline,this is the Chinese flag:
And this one,can be used as the chinese propaganda:
Edit: and as I see,China cleary was not part of the Warsaw pact,Soviet union was strongly opposed to a conflict with USA,they even was neutral in the resource wars.
Edit 2: As I have seen,Soviet Union have pretty good relations to USA,in fallout 1 we can even see a Russian girl in the vault,who his grandfather was the Soviet Ambassador in America.If USA was so friendly with Soviet Union at the point who make them let a Soviet ambassador enter in the vault,is clear that the Chinese never will be allied with Soviets
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/China
Their chairman was Cheng : http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Chairman_Cheng
And the president was Xin : http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Xin
She seems to be the world mightest power,even Bigger than USA,and have many agents operating in american land (like the Chinese remnants),so she problably have even more IC than american,and more resources,except Oil
Oh,and in Fallout Timeline,this is the Chinese flag:
And this one,can be used as the chinese propaganda:
Edit: and as I see,China cleary was not part of the Warsaw pact,Soviet union was strongly opposed to a conflict with USA,they even was neutral in the resource wars.
Edit 2: As I have seen,Soviet Union have pretty good relations to USA,in fallout 1 we can even see a Russian girl in the vault,who his grandfather was the Soviet Ambassador in America.If USA was so friendly with Soviet Union at the point who make them let a Soviet ambassador enter in the vault,is clear that the Chinese never will be allied with Soviets
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I mean the 1960s, not the 2060s.
Hopefully the mod will cover the 2040s to maybe the 2080s. Of course I will have to see what WaffleTheBard thinks about it first.
I think that flag was the people's liberation army flag in this world. I think China used the same flag as in our world.WOW,here have many information about china:
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/China
Their chairman was Cheng : http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Chairman_Cheng
And the president was Xin : http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Xin
She seems to be the world mightest power,even Bigger than USA,and have many agents operating in american land (like the Chinese remnants),so she problably have even more IC than american,and more resources,except Oil
Oh,and in Fallout Timeline,this is the Chinese flag:
And this one,can be used as the chinese propaganda:
Edit: and as I see,China cleary was not part of the Warsaw pact,Soviet union was strongly opposed to a conflict with USA,they even was neutral in the resource wars.
Edit 2: As I have seen,Soviet Union have pretty good relations to USA,in fallout 1 we can even see a Russian girl in the vault,who his grandfather was the Soviet Ambassador in America.If USA was so friendly with Soviet Union at the point who make them let a Soviet ambassador enter in the vault,is clear that the Chinese never will be allied with Soviets
Also I really liked the idea of China forming their own bloc in Asia.
From what I could tell, the Soviets, and the Chinese had a different view of what communism really was about. Also China was considered a third player in the Cold War, although in the shadow of the Soviet union and United States. As for the whole friendly U.S. and Soviet relations, it's possible that the United States and the Soviet Union sought friendly relations due to the rise of China. In our timeline Nixon went to China to get them on our side and away from the Soviets.
So it could be possible that the U.S. in this world did the same thing with the Soviet Union? So I assume both powers see china as great threat. Maybe?
I can understand where your coming from, and your points are pretty valid. I guess it's just since we don't have a greater understanding of the Pre-war era, due to the limited amount of information available. It can be very difficult to actually know for sure what really happened. All I'm trying to do is make informative guesses, based in part on what happened in our world, although I can understand since this is a different world entirely, the decisions that were made in this world could have ranged from normal to the completely ridiculous. Its fallout after all.
So as for the European commonwealth, I looked at the situation through the eyes of our history, but I guess I ought to give have Europe in this world more credit, for coming together and unifying so quickly after world war two.
So would this mean the United States is alone in the world?
Well,that is the flag used by the Chinese during the invasion of USA,but is the only chinese flag used in fallout universe,so that is it
And I agree with you about the American-Soviet relations,because China have more population than USSR+USA,so if they became the world greatest power,both Soviet Union and USA will fear them,so I guess that Soviet Union maybe still have bad relations with NATO,but they shall be persuing a "good neighbour" policy with USA,trying to bring them to the table to weaken china
And I agree with you about the American-Soviet relations,because China have more population than USSR+USA,so if they became the world greatest power,both Soviet Union and USA will fear them,so I guess that Soviet Union maybe still have bad relations with NATO,but they shall be persuing a "good neighbour" policy with USA,trying to bring them to the table to weaken china