Europa Universalis IV Developer Diary 11 - The Cost & Reward for Technology

[Svip]

I would like to remind people, that EU is not a alt-history simulation, but a history game. The idea in EU is not to say 'what if Ming suddenly became a republic?' or 'what if Ulm had the entirity of Europe as vassal states?'[0], but rather 'how do I get there, if at all?'. The game mechanics are supposed to 'illustrate' history, but not to craft a completely accurate simulation.

As such, the reasons for the European advancement in technology are important to understand, but the game mechanic that European powers have a Western technology group is - for my money - good enough.

I would like to see a reduction in military tech cost, during warfare, but I also realise the game mechanic implication this may have, that it may overcomplicate some stuff and leave to undesired results.

[0] Note: This is totally realistic.

 

[vasziljevics]

I would like to see a reduction in military tech cost, during warfare, but I also realise the game mechanic implication this may have, that it may overcomplicate some stuff and leave to undesired results.

main problem with such system is that it would cry to be abused by the player.

 

[George LeS]

So far thats just speculation. However the more ways of getting monarch points the better (so long as they aren't "obvious" options that everyone chooses).

If you have time take a read of this.
http://www.angelfire.com/ga4/guilmartin.com/Revolution.html
Losing wars/battles has often provided a great push forward in military tech, even in the 1500s

Right you are, and way before 1500. Remember that military tech includes tactics and strategy; the Latins of Outremonde learned from the Moslems. Pyrrhus and Hannibal were among the greatest teachers of the Art of War the Romans ever had.

 

[6354201]

These tech changes are fantastic, and definitely seem to indicate a step forward for the franchise.

It could also be frustrating for people who liked to play the Ottomans or the Chinese and found themselves so far behind a tech curve that it seemed impossible to break into even near parity no matter how skilled your leaders or rich your country. This might be historically appropriate.

It's a moot point as far as the game goes because of the changes you've implemented, but to state that the situation that prevailed in EU3 was historically appropriate is simply inaccurate for a game starting in the 1400s. The Mughals conquered India with the aid of gunpowder in the 16th century, the Ottomans remained a serious threat to Europe for the duration of the EU time frame, while the British conquest of India was far from a sure thing: in 1689 the Company was dealt a severe defeat in Child's war, and in 1757 the famous Battle of Plassey was won largely due to the defection of a large segment of the Indian army, not due to superior British military technology.

 

[wojthor]

province "warszawa", "warsaw", "warszau" - it's ok, but "warszawa" was important city after 1600 (place of polish noble parlament and capital city after), but accurate name for the province is, for example, "mazovia", "mazowsze", "warszawa" was important for central position in polish and lithuania land

 

[scarfless]

I'm sorry to dig up such an old topic, but in the recent videos it is shown that base value for tech upgrade varies by country (maybe these are actually different builds where you were testing something?).

So my question for the devs is if you've changed the base recently or they are actually different.
If you've changed it I guess it's because of balance reasons, though I'm not really sure if an average western power can get max tech and NI with 800 base cost by the end of the game with these costs, not to mention non-western nations (they are fine being a little behind though).
In case they are specific for every country, I think it would be nice to have an option when creating game to make them unified. It would be handy especially in multiplayer, so people don't have to play only "lucky nations" with the lowest base costs to stand against other players.

I would also like to ask about monarch points cap for non-western nations. In one of Quill's videos we see that natives in the Americas need 2080 points (mostly due to non-western tech group modifier) for next tech level. Can they expend everything for the upgrade once they reach 999 points or is the cap increased for those nations. Also if there is the 999 cap and they don't need more points to upgrade, then it's not really that different from western powers (ex. England) that needs 800 for next tech (without modifiers).

Also here are some pictures showing the differences in base costs:

Spoiler

 

[Cymsdale]

I think if the cost is above 999, it means they simply can't buy it until the cost goes down.

EDIT: Of course the dev diary says it is penalty capped, so maybe I'm wrong about that. Does seem kinda odd.

 

[scarfless]

I think if the cost is above 999, it means they simply can't buy it until the cost goes down.

That's unfortunate then, because they have that 250% tech cost modifier from tech group, so they won't be able to do anything until they westernize.
I don't think that's the case though, because that way even Asian countries would get over the cap due to unfavorable tech group (in case the base cost is indeed 800 points for every country).

 

[Cymsdale]

It does seem odd if they cap it at 999, but set the base at 800. It means that there isn't much of a distinction between the tech groups (although some tech groups also get a power penalty).

Seems odd.

 

[AapoAlas]

This is indeed a question that would be nice to get a more detailed answer upon: Don't leave us hanging with dated information, dear Paradoxians!

 

[scarfless]

A little update (and shameless bump). After watching the Aztec video again I found out the max point cap isn't the same fore every nation. The Aztecs have ~2500 points cap, but again no idea how it is calculated.

 

[Assalander]

In Quill's video the base cost is 800 for everyone (that's why it's "base"), so they've just changed it since old screenshots and videos. The other differences just come from tech group and government type penalties.

 

[Cymsdale]

A little update (and shameless bump). After watching the Aztec video again I found out the max point cap isn't the same fore every nation. The Aztecs have ~2500 points cap, but again no idea how it is calculated.

Nice find! Maybe their cap raises to meet the amount needed for a tech if that cost goes above 999. That would make sense.

 

[scarfless]

In Quill's video the base cost is 800 for everyone (that's why it's "base"), so they've just changed it since old screenshots and videos. The other differences just come from tech group and government type penalties.

Oh, so maybe those differences were from different beta builds as I thought. Anyway it would be nice to know what will the "base" cost be in final version. Thanks for replying that pretty much answered all my questions.