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Ottoman setup and cores.

Just re-read the entire thread. My thoughts on some of it.

*Setup suggestions: Seems fine, I'm not an expert on current setup, but I have some objections. I'm not convinced Macedonia ought to be Byzantine. The Turkish armies right now are good for the AI IMO, a player can just disband. I think we should be careful to give OE too much map knowledge, then Constantinople can be a prize for a player because of that. If trading is wanted they can know the CoT. And before they got access to ports in the Red Sea and Persian Gulf there were probably trade mostly via these markets?

*Removing cores: Krain, Istria, Steirmark, and Ragusa. I'm fine with it.

*Adding cores events. Are the cores being added on the day of the new monarch, or at least before the conquest?

*Progressive cores. If a lot is added then they have to be removed later if not held, a 19th century OE did not have all those claims. As to western claims, I agree with garbon:
However, why would anyone recognize these claims? Not only that, but why would the populations be happy to accept Ottoman rule. I think that if you want to take these areas, thats great, but it shouldn't be easy/revolt-free.
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Iraq and Cyrenaica seems OK.

*I like the Ottoman cultures as they are, and I have read more convincing arguements here supporting status quo than against it.
 
Re: Ottoman setup and cores.

Originally posted by mnorrefeldt
*Setup suggestions: Seems fine, I'm not an expert on current setup, but I have some objections. I'm not convinced Macedonia ought to be Byzantine. The Turkish armies right now are good for the AI IMO, a player can just disband. I think we should be careful to give OE too much map knowledge, then Constantinople can be a prize for a player because of that. If trading is wanted they can know the CoT. And before they got access to ports in the Red Sea and Persian Gulf there were probably trade mostly via these markets?
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The Macedonia thing is just a thought experiment, to see whether anyone liked it.

The map thing I'd like to keep, because the Turks had vast knowledge of the world around them. Within a decade of Columbus' running into America, the Turks had maps of the Americas. They fought the Portuguese off of India, which is rather difficult if you don't know where it is. I do agree with you, however, that sacking Anatolia or Constantinople might become a goal for players seeking maps of the ME and the Malabar Coast.

I don't like the armies thing, because Paradox simply gave the OE 1000 in cash to compensate for it. A player can simply dismiss his armies, and have this huge wad of cash sitting around to build forts, armies, navies, officials, or even a manufactury.

*Adding cores events. Are the cores being added on the day of the new monarch, or at least before the conquest?
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The date of the monarch's ascention, though I seem to have put the wrong date in for Suleyman, as during my tests, his came up on the same day as Selim I's.

I think later we should have events taking cores away from the OE. Not for the provinces that are taken by force, but where provinces broke away. So Algeria, Tunis, etc. would all get removed, even if the OE choses to try and hold on to them.
 
Will anybody submit the stuff in this thread? At least the dynamic cores and the improved setup ought to be in. Also, chegitz's work on Ramazan and the Arabian Peninsula should be included. Will you take care of this yourself, chegitz?
 
Actually I have already submitted it, however it's probably gonna be changed massively, if it gets in at all.
 
I wasn't finished with the bakshish events. There needs to be one for every sultan from Beyezid I onwards, except for Murad IV. They should also get progressively more expensive, with the exception of Ibrahim. I'd just as soon not have the Bakshish events go in until they're done, especially as I wanted to tie them to other events.

Oh, and share the credit with the people who are tinkering/modifying the events.
 
I was just wondering why not owning Transylvania is a cause for losing all the OE cores on Hungary. After all, SIE is created as an OE vassal during the Hungarian inheritance, isn't it?
 
Originally posted by Xyrix
I was just wondering why not owning Transylvania is a cause for losing all the OE cores on Hungary. After all, SIE is created as an OE vassal during the Hungarian inheritance, isn't it?
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I assume you just read through the script, since the event definitely works in another way (or is supposed to).
In fact, it's exactly the other way round - if you still own Transylvania, the event removing cores (301015) won't happen. It triggers only when the OE owns NEITHER of Pest, Dalmatia, Croatia, Transylvania, Maros or Magyar, therefore the NOT = { OR = { statement. This is to check that the OE has really been defeated badly on the Balkans (and not just lost or failed to take one province).
 
Just one question, is anyone going to try and fix the Ottoman Empire?

They always self destruct in my games, 100%. They keep on fighting wars on two fronts, in Persia and in Europe, so they are constantly at war, and constantly getting war exhaustion.

Also, instead of starting in the Orthodox Tech Group, they must be Latin, otherwize they can never keep up with the European powers.

The rebellion risk may be due to High Centralization and Innovativeness (especially in the 1520 scenario), along with an overly aggressive AI (targetting everything around them, and having wars lasting too long).
 
Originally posted by McNaughton
Just one question, is anyone going to try and fix the Ottoman Empire?

They always self destruct in my games, 100%. They keep on fighting wars on two fronts, in Persia and in Europe, so they are constantly at war, and constantly getting war exhaustion.
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When using the beta, they use to do extremely well in some EEP 1.4 games, though. Basically it depends on whether they manage to take out Byzantium by 1460 or not. If they manage that by then, they will be a powerhouse (and I've seen them lead in vps in 1500 and even annex the Mameluks in several games)
Also, instead of starting in the Orthodox Tech Group, they must be Latin, otherwize they can never keep up with the European powers.
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They DID get Latin tech in EEP.

Hold on, have you been trying this in the unfinished 1520 scenario?
:rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by Twoflower
Hold on, have you been trying this in the unfinished 1520 scenario?
:rolleyes:
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Yes and he's been very helpful to that end;)

Besides, I was going to bring this up anyways as for testing new things (until the beta's become 1.08) then you have to test on 1.07. In 1.07 and EEP 1.4, the Ottos are pathetic. Since we say that the EEP is made for 1.07, we shouldn't have a pathetic OE for 1.07 but then say it works nicely with beta patches:rolleyes:
 
Perhaps the new AI:s take to much into account the rulers. At least 'the to conquer list' have to be added to, so that BYZ, and several others, is in every one. As it is now BYZ is eventually removed from the lists.
Another consept for Ottoman AI:s would be to switch after certain conquests. But the only-adding-concept is by far the most important.

EDIT:typo
 
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Originally posted by mnorrefeldt
Perhaps the new AI:s take to much into account the rulers. Tleast 'the to conquer list' have to only be added to, so that BYZ, and several others, is in every one. As it is now BYZ is eventually removed from the lists.
Another consept for Ottoman AI:s would be to switch after certain conquests. But the only-adding-concept is by far the most important.
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Yes, it would probably be best to make those events like the Russian core events.
 
And we all know how well Russian AI performs :D.

We could easily boost all AI, but to do it right we'd need to create a large amount of AI only events. For instance, allow an AI Russian to inherit a two province Kazan if they control the capital, and allow AI Russia to inherit Astrakhan if it controls the capital, etc. Allow Russia to inherit Sibir in 1580 if they haven't already conquered it, in order to represent the Cossack overthrow of the Sibir capital, which Russia did without having a land connection to. The Cossacks walked over Ural PTI straight to the capital. If we implement these changes Russian AI will do better. Furthermore, if we ever get Russia to reach the Siberian corridor we must turn the expansion = value in their AI to 100 (this is so they will TP everything in sight before acutally colonizing it... otherwise they will try to colonize each province before reaching the Pacific, which is insanity.)
 
Originally posted by Fate
We could easily boost all AI, but to do it right we'd need to create a large amount of AI only events. For instance, allow an AI Russian to inherit a two province Kazan if they control the capital, and allow AI Russia to inherit Astrakhan if it controls the capital, etc. Allow Russia to inherit Sibir in 1580 if they haven't already conquered it, in order to represent the Cossack overthrow of the Sibir capital, which Russia did without having a land connection to. The Cossacks walked over Ural PTI straight to the capital. If we implement these changes Russian AI will do better. Furthermore, if we ever get Russia to reach the Siberian corridor we must turn the expansion = value in their AI to 100 (this is so they will TP everything in sight before acutally colonizing it... otherwise they will try to colonize each province before reaching the Pacific, which is insanity.)
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Yeah, I think thats the way to go about it. I'm making a bunch of similar ai only events for the Timurids.
 
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