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Divine Wind - Developer Diary #2

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Europa Universalis III 46143 EU3 - After Action Reports (AAR)
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Great though as has been said there is a 99.9% chance of me buying this with the 0.1% being down to the world ending, my head exploding or deciding to join a cult that bans all modern technology.

A few questions though

1. Is it possible for new daimyos to appear and join the group of 4? either through the acquisition of new territory or due to Japanese revolters.
2. Are there Japanese revolters as in Uesegi Mori Hojo etc (I realise that this could be an issue of performance).
3. Will more countries be added? There are times when it would be great to have far more revolters in the game, specifically certain parts of the world are still far too united. Japan was of course one of them, UK is another as is Scandinavia and China. The more the merrier.
4. I definitely do not support the whole 100 daimyos but I would like it possible to have more daimyos for instance 6 or 7. I used to love playing shogun total war particularly the strategic aspects rather than the tactical battles, I feel though it may be a good idea to have a bit more than 4 daimyo. Is this design decision already fixed? or is it possible that we may still see more daimyos.

Either way I am very excited in EU2 and EU3 Japan has always been a country I enjoyed playing
3. Can we not persuade you to increase the number of
 
StephenT said:
There were almost two thousand separate rulers in the HRE, but Paradox abstracts that to thirty or so. I don't see anyone screaming because the Counts of Löwenstein-Wertheim-Virneburg aren't individually represented in EUIII with their own tag... So why complain because the three hundred or so daimyo families are also abstracted down to four alliances?
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Differendum est inter et inter.
The HRE abstracted the member states too small to have the size of at least an OPM, but once you got the size of a province BINGO you were in. Even though in many case you were bound to disappear at some point. I would have expected Divine Wind to do the same with Japan.
If I was stupidly extending YOUR argument exactly like you did mine -why not get rid of all the smaller Russian States to just have an opposition between Muscowy and Novgorod, why not get rid of all the HRE minors except Austria, Palatinate, Brandebourg and Hansa. Why put all those minor vassals in France ?

It is always an equilibrium between having all the states and having only the relevant states. I believe the equilibrium so far was good - with some countries without much future thrown in there (anyone ever saw a strong Holstein ?). The equilibrium chosen for Japan is IMO very poor, most probably because it is easier for the developers.
Not even saying that the names are not even those of factions of that era.
 
Something about the new system makes me nervous. I hope Japan still fits naturally within the context of the rest of the world.
 
The OPM in HRE kind of works due to the fact that they are protected by the emperor and the emperor is encouraged to release them.

I personally find OPMs to be a bit silly in EU3 it is basically down to luck whether they survive or not. I think sticking OPMS everywhere in Japan would be a bad idea I know MM did it and I dont really know how it works but in unmodded EU3 (all versions) a OPM either is annexed or it annexes something and rapidly stops being an OPM, overall it doesnt really add anything except lots and lots of tags.
 
Narwhal said:
Differendum est inter et inter.
The HRE abstracted the member states too small to have the size of at least an OPM, and thus were in most case to small to have any clout in the world affair. I would have expected Divine Wind to do the same with Japan.
If I was stupidly extending YOUR argument exactly like you did mine -why not get rid of all the smaller Russian States to just have an opposition between Muscowy and Novgorod, why not get rid of all the HRE minors except Austria, Palatinate, Brandebourg and Hansa. Why put all those minor vassals in France ?

It is always an equilibrium between having all the states and having only the relevant states. I believe the equilibrium so far was good - with some countries without much future thrown in there (anyone ever saw a strong Holstein ?). The equilibrium chosen for Japan is IMO very poor, most probably because it is easier for the developers.
Not even saying that the names are not even those of factions of that era.
Click to expand...

IMHO I would say let Paradox make the game mechanics and let them balance it between the 4 factions to be fun and let the modders increase the number of them. Maybe in a patch the official number of factions in Japan could still increase, to be honest I rather see a good shogunate system and fun gameplay in Japan in 5.0, than many factions and a total mess. I hope you get my point
 
I get the point. It comes down to the good old "historicity" vs "playability" debate. And my opinion was that the equilibrium was poor :) I understand people have other opinions, but for me this is not Japan. I am not an history expert on Japan but it does not feel like the warring states.

To Nestorius :
MM Sengoku had a system which protected OPM fairly well. Survival of OPMs depends on a lot of things.

a. If you waged war without the Shogun authorization, the Shogun could give all the other States a sort of Casus Belli on you, and they would use it.

b. When you annexed another country, whether the war was authorized by the Shogun or not, the Shogun would choose whether he would take the territory for himself, grant it to you, or let it be independant (in general under a new "faction" - each province had several factions that could call it "home"). Then of course, you could abide by the Shogun ruling, or not. If you refused, see a.

So all the point of the Sengoku in MM was to control the Shogun or at least to have a good reputation with him, or alternatively a good reputation with the other factions, since if the Shogun was tyrannical (like refusing to give territories to whoever bails him out), his will would be less and less enforced. At some point, you would be so powerful that the Shogun would try to weaken you - that was the moment to go rogue.
It was very bugged, the shortcomings in the system were solved by stacks of 10 000 shogun-loyalist rebel soldiers spawning on your capital (which was completely unfair in 1399, but then we are speaking of MM) but it was awesome.

I expected Divine Wind to have something close to this, a little less "intrusive" and "heavy" - much like they did with Helius HRE mod in HttT.

Edit : Mixed Shogun and Daimyo.
 
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Will people stop complaining that the names of the Daimyo-states doesn't match that of their rulers at that time? They have a dynasty system for that...

Anyhow, am I the only one who can't wait to see what the modders do with the second HRE-possibility? Surely there must be more interesting places than Japan for it :D
 
Birken said:
No, currently, as with the hre, there can only be one. What you can do is remove the shogunate and use it for france though.
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That's awesome! So I could take the shogunate thing out for my mod (which isn't focused on the Sengoku period), and use it for another stuff, for example in the Middle East?
 
>>Narwhal
Do you mean "Shogun"? Daimyo is those local lords
 
I hope the 4 Daimyo can change their name/flag depending on what ruler family they play/want as, otherwise it becomes a mess, I also hope that a Daimyo can decide to convert to a different religion (christianity as RL, or perhaps even muslim if circumstances make it plausible)
 
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Sebastian Jarl said:
Will people stop complaining that the names of the Daimyo-states doesn't match that of their rulers at that time? They have a dynasty system for that...
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:confused:
Yea, let's call France Gallia, who cares, they have a dynasty system for that. And let's call Spain Wisigothia, they do have a dynasty system for that. No ?
 
>>Santôka
It's not THAT radical... but let's say like if we still call countries with their ruler's family name (like calling Austria "Habsburg"), which one will is better for UK? "Windsor" or "Saxony" (which I mean the origin of the house of Saxe-Coburg & Gotha, maybe wrong though)?
 
SchwarzKatze said:
>>Santôka
It's not THAT radical... but let's say like if we still call countries with their ruler's family name (like calling Austria "Habsburg"), which one will is better for UK? "Windsor" or "Saxony" (which I mean the origin of the house of Saxe-Coburg & Gotha, maybe wrong though)?
Click to expand...

What he wrote was an example why Japan name changes (and flag in my opinion ofc too) would be necessary
 
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