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1019-05-16: Rikulfr commits suicide, Falki inherits from his son, Gyla comes to Emperor Starkadr's court in Vingulsmark.
1019-05-24: (Save game is here) Emperor Starkadr (me) summons random Suomenusko Content Genius guy to come to Vingulsmark.
1019-05-30: Before he can arrive, Jarl Falki of Bergslagen gives Gyla, his ex-daughter-in-law, to Jarl Frodi of Varend (just some Jarl, otherwise uninvolved in all this) as a concubine.
Gyla is unlanded and in your court, so in theory only you can give her away. What is happening that makes you say that Falki gave Gyla to Frodi? There must be something, but it's not clear.

Are unresolved diplomatic offers included in the save file?
It's not a direct answer to your question, since I don't look inside save files very often, but I have observed that some popups are preserved if you save/reload. (The obvious example is events, including any random outcome. But I think selected diplomatic events might be preserved too - eg. peace offers. Marriage/betrothal/concubinage offers might theoretically be preserved.)

---

Assuming you're looking for ironman-compatible workarounds, here are a couple of possibilities:
  • Generate a holy man (lose 5 piety), keep the dialog onscreen, marry him to Gyla (you both lose 400 prestige), kill him via the dialog.
    • If it's an outstanding/bugged diplomatic offer then the fact she was married for an instant might invalidate it. (Or it might not, eg. if it's only invalidated on the next day tick.)
  • Generate holy men until you get one with near-zero intrigue, marry him to Gyla, then plot-murder him.
    • A 6-month delay in the wedding is a small price to pay, right?!
 
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Gyla is unlanded and in your court, so in theory only you can give her away. What is happening that makes you say that Falki gave Gyla to Frodi? There must be something, but it's not clear.
That would be the message in the game log that Jarl Falki gave Gyla as a concubine to Jarl Frodi. :)

No need for an ironman-compatible workaround, I went with using the console to just kill both Falki and Frodi because this whole thing was pissing me off and made no sense. :p
 
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Question about Hunting Focus and Stressed - I know I've used Hunting to remove Stressed before, but why isn't it working this time? The Intrigue event "Go on a Great Hunt" is unavailable because the character must have less than 1 health trait (so, not be Stressed). The focus RNG events about hunting the great white bear aren't firing (three years now). The requirement to be at peace has been satisfied for all but a couple of months - it doesn't take long to resolve a war where the independent Count of Julich decides to press his cousin's claim to King of England. :rolleyes:

The wiki mentions losing Stressed from Hunting in a couple of places, which reassures me that I'm not misremembering having done this before... It's frustrating to spend three years on a focus with absolutely nothing firing, though.
 
Question about Hunting Focus and Stressed - I know I've used Hunting to remove Stressed before, but why isn't it working this time? T

Nahhhhh. The focus, yes, not the decision.
Sure not for many, many patches, if ever.
Maybe without the focus and WayofLife or before it was released.
Either way...

As far as i recal you can get rid of stressed with the focus by owning a dog (or cat?) you can get in an event,
which in turn can cure your stress.

At least that is what i remember about this issue.

The wiki mentions losing Stressed from Hunting in a couple of places, which reassures me that I'm not misremembering having done this before... It's frustrating to spend three years on a focus with absolutely nothing firing, though.

Wiki at least on the Focus page intends that for the Focus, not the decision. That's the info i recall.

PS: Looked again and it is indeed in the box Traits&Effects for the Focus, where that info belongs, though maybe it should mention as well that it depends on that dog event, as without it might end up misleading as it is now.

PS_2: added a small clarification now that it requires a dog to remove stressed.
Gaining stressed here is refering to the dog and cat event.
The hunting decison doesn't do that.

I'm not sure what "couple of places" you else refer to.
As the Wiki search was partly broken a few days ago and still appears to be, im afraid i can't right now search the Wiki just for the word.
On the Focus page it's mentioned again under "Managing Traits" below the info boxes, but that paragraph in general is just refering to the required focus and doesn't go into detail.

-----

Found the event with the dog.

Code:
# Dog makes you happier
character_event = {
    id = WoL.5210
    desc = EVTDESC_WoL_5210
    picture = GFX_evt_hunting_scene
    border = GFX_event_normal_frame_war

    is_triggered_only = yes
 
    only_playable = yes
    only_capable = yes
    prisoner = no
 
    trigger = {
        has_character_modifier = pet_hunting_dog
        OR = {
            trait = stressed
            trait = depressed
        }
    }
 
    option = {
        name = EVTOPTA_WoL_5210
        if = {
            limit = { trait = stressed }
            remove_trait = stressed
        }
        if = {
            limit = { trait = depressed }
            remove_trait = depressed
        }
    }
}

Apparently pretty random.

PS : Ah found the reference in 00_on_actions.txt.
Apprently a yearly pulse with random_events = 1000 = 0

200 = WoL.5210 # Dog makes you happy

Sorry cant explain for sure. I interprete that as year = 1000 value, so a fifth of a chance per year to fire...or every five years.....
I suppose....maybe not. *shrug*

---

I believe to remember that the Theology and the Carousing focuses are better or safer ways to get rid of the stressed trait.
 
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PS : Ah found the reference in 00_on_actions.txt.
Apprently a yearly pulse with random_events = 1000 = 0

200 = WoL.5210 # Dog makes you happy

Sorry cant explain for sure. I interprete that as year = 1000 value, so a fifth of a chance per year to fire...or every five years.....
I suppose....maybe not. *shrug*

No, those numbers are used to calculate weighted chances. If there are five random events with a weight of 200 and a 1000 chance of nothing happening (1000 = 0), the chance for each of those five random events is 200/(1000 + 200 * 5) = 0.1 or once every ten years, if the on_action is on_yearly_playable. Two further things complicate this system: Only events that the character qualifies for (meets all pre-triggers and triggers) weigh into this calculation (non-qualified events have weight 0), and events can have weight multipliers, that can change the base weight of the event, in both directions. All in all, it's very difficult to say what the chance of any such random event happening is for any given character, since there are many events, which have different requirements and different weight multipliers.
 
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No, those numbers are used to calculate weighted chances. If there are five random events with a weight of 200 and a 1000 chance of nothing happening (1000 = 0), the chance for each of those five random events is 200/(1000 + 200 * 5) = 0.1 or once every ten years, if the on_action is on_yearly_playable. Two further things complicate this system: Only events that the character qualifies for (meets all pre-triggers and triggers) weigh into this calculation (non-qualified events have weight 0), and events can have weight multipliers, that can change the base weight of the event, in both directions. All in all, it's very difficult to say what the chance of any such random event happening is for any given character, since there are many events, which have different requirements and different weight multipliers.

Oi, that was quite a read on a second christmas feast day with still a bit of goose in my belly.
My brain is a barely functioning, but i'll try to comprehend what you wrote...no woorries, you coudln't have been clearer.
Okay i think i manage to do that.....
So if there would be only this random event, then it had a chance of 1,16.
I'm not sure....where do you take the " ten years from" ?
*scratches head* (would, if i had the energy to scratch my head, but that currently is too ar away for my fingers to reach)

Either way, that is indeed still not much and explains why it's relatively rare.
Now id need to compare with the event sof the two focuses i recommended, but somehow i don't feel like it right now....

Thanks.
smile1_w.gif


PS: Do you know if they are jokes about game designers similar to "What happens when a building engineer scripts a game ?", as this seems to show they are all mathematicians at PDS.
MfvvyDB.gif
Quelle surprise. Isn't there a way to simplify that calc ? I dunno.
I think i need to make a coffeee..
kaffee.gif
 
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So if there would be only this random event, then it had a chance of 1,16.

Chances are always between 0 and 1. If there's only one random event with weight 200 and chance 1000 for nothing to happen, the chance for it to fire would be 200 / (1000 + 200) = 0,167, or one in six.

I'm not sure....where do you take the " ten years from" ?
*scratches head* (would, if i had the energy to scratch my head, but that currently is too ar away for my fingers to reach)

0,1 means a 10% chance, so if that's for a yearly random event, it takes 10 years on average.
 
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Chances are always between 0 and 1. If there's only one random event with weight 200 and chance 1000 for nothing to happen, the chance for it to fire would be 200 / (1000 + 200) = 0,167, or one in six.

Oh, oh.....that clears up a few misunderstandings.

0,1 means a 10% chance, so if that's for a yearly random event, it takes 10 years on average.

Right, a yearly pulse, forgot, and now it makes sense.

Thank you. :cool:
 
Does anyone remember how my character can lose the Fat trait ?
I have to lose weight, but how ?

.....

PS: Okay i found the Health page on the Wiki being helpful

I suppose i should get some diligent and temperate traits and potentially get rid of gregarious
and if i read the HFP_health_events file correctly kind isn't helpful either. Too much data to read and comprehend right now.
I'll remain married and have a properous capital for now.

Any other ideas how i might be able to influence it more directly than losing or gaining specific traits ?
The Wiki isn't clear enough for my taste right now. It mentions traveling and certain focuses, but what is most effective ?
A specific focus maybe ?

What are your opinions and experiences ?
 
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Does anyone remember how my character can lose the Fat trait ?

PS: Okay i found the Health page on the Wiki being helpful

I suppose i should get some diligent and temperate traits and potentially get rid of gregarious
and if i read the HFP_health_events file correctly kind isn't helpful either.
I'll remain married and have a properous capital for now.

Any other ideas how i might be able to influence it more directly ?
Traveling apparently.
What is most effective ?
A specific focus maybe ?
Secluded meditation from monastic societies (and possibly the theology focus?) decreases your fatness by a notch or two each time. (Assuming you don't break your seclusion and pig out...) Similarly, holding a feast increases your fatness.
 
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Secluded meditation from monastic societies (and possibly the theology focus?) decreases your fatness by a notch or two each time. (Assuming you don't break your seclusion and pig out...)

Problem is i'm muslim currently.
I guess doing Ramadan and the Hajj might help.

Similarly, holding a feast increases your fatness.

Oh......., that explains it apart from being gregarious, married with children (in the TV show of the same name the husband didn't get really fat though. Obviously the game is outrageously implausible !) and having a prosperous capital, each year i did feasts when possible to boost my prosperity levels. Of course i also always spend lavishely and lost temperate and diligent over time. Oops.
 
Problem is i'm muslim currently.
I guess doing Ramadan and the Hajj might help.
Agreed, I believe both of those have a couple of random events which decrease your fatness by a notch or two.

BTW: If you're willing to do some minor exploiting: You can do the Hajj an unlimited number of times if you convert to another religion then back to Islam. (Because converting to another religion clears the Hajjaj trait.)
 
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Agreed, I believe both of those have a couple of random events which decrease your fatness by a notch or two.

BTW: If you're willing to do some minor exploiting: You can do the Hajj an unlimited number of times if you convert to another religion then back to Islam. (Because converting to another religion clears the Hajjaj trait.)

Oh..naaaah, but thanks.
I prefer to outright cheat or edit the save file before using silly exploits that kill any sense and plausibility.
I rather see myself as fat than using exploits !
8YahOJf.gif
6jqFBQI.gif


Mysteriously i don't even look fat, despite having the trait already. Maybe berber portaits don't change or don't get as fat in looks.
 
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Hi there,
Im trying to create a full holy order england. Just a few dukes and counts are left to "convert" now so far ive been conquering, revoking and gifting them to the holy order, however the British isles are under my full control now, thanks to my conquering subjects. Thus revoking comes with huge opinion penalties.
My question is: do feudal subjects of the Holy order convert freely to the holy order government type as soon as they become subjects of the Holy order?
Also; can they form the kingdom of England?

Oh and theres a 40 Intrigue woman in my court wich I cant apoint as spymaster, she can be any Position but spymaster, why?
 
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I'm not sure about them converting after a straight vassal transfer to the holy order, but I'm reasonably certain that the AI holy order could make a kingdom on their own with the right amount of manna (I think it's just money) and territory prerequisites.
 
do feudal subjects of the Holy order convert freely to the holy order government type as soon as they become subjects of the Holy order?

I looked into the code, and I think they might. However, the only way to know for sure is to test it out. (Make a backup save so you can revert if you're in ironman.)

The relevant code for both feudal and holy order governments is set in ...\common\governments\feudal_governments.txt

Code:
	feudal_government = {
		preferred_holdings = { CASTLE }
		allowed_holdings = { 
			CASTLE 
			FORT
			HOSPITAL
		}
		allowed_holdings_culture = { # Will not get the wrong government type penalty for tribes of the same culture
			TRIBAL
		}
		accepts_liege_governments = { # Gets the wrong religion modifier instead
			muslim_government
			theocratic_feudal_government
			chinese_imperial_government
		}
		free_revoke_on_governments_religion = { # Tribal vassals of other religions can have their titles revoked for free
			tribal_government
		}
		potential = {
			OR = {
				controls_religion = no
				religion_group = muslim
				has_religion_feature = religion_temporal_head
				AND = {
					religion = norse_pagan_reformed
					has_religion_features = no # Old saves, and campaigns without HF, need the Fylkirate to continue working
				}
			}
			NOT = {	religion_group = muslim	}
			NOT = { is_government_potential = roman_imperial_government }
			NOT = { is_government_potential = order_government }
			NAND = { 
				culture_group = tibetan_group
				OR = {
					religion = bon
					religion = bon_reformed
					religion = buddhist
				}
				higher_tier_than = BARON
			}
			NAND = { 
				tier = EMPEROR
				primary_title = { has_title_flag = pretender_chinese_empire }
				OR = {
					culture_group = chinese_group
					culture = khitan
					culture = tangut
					culture = jurchen
					has_character_flag = chinese_imperial_government_preserve
				}
			}
			is_patrician = no
		}
		
		color = { 91 133 207 }
		
		dukes_called_kings = yes
		barons_need_dynasty = yes

		can_build_tribal = no
		
		ignore_in_vassal_limit_calculation = {
			tribal_government
		}
		capital_move_delay = 600

		## Modifiers
		court_size_modifier = 10
	}

Code:
	order_government = {
		preferred_holdings = { CASTLE }
		allowed_holdings = {
			CASTLE
			TEMPLE
			TRIBAL
			FORT
			HOSPITAL
		}
		accepts_liege_governments = {
			feudal_government
			muslim_government
			theocracy_government
			theocratic_feudal_government
			chinese_imperial_government
		}
		free_revoke_on_governments = {
			order_government
		}
		free_revoke_on_tiers = {
			BARON
		}

		forced_contract = {
			order_government
		}

		frame_suffix = "_order"
		title_prefix = "order_"

		potential = {
			OR = {
				holy_order = yes
				AND = {
					any_liege = {
						holy_order = yes
						religion = ROOT
					}
					ai = yes
					NAND = { 
						is_government_potential = merchant_republic_government 
						OR = {
							tier = DUKE
							is_patrician = yes
						}
						any_demesne_province = {
							any_province_holding = {
								OR = {
									AND = {
										tier = BARON
										holding_type = family_palace
									}
									AND = {
										NOT = {
											tier = BARON
										}
										holding_type = city
									}
								}
							}
						}
					}
				}
			}
		}

		color = { 169 169 169 }

		have_gender_laws = no
		can_create_kingdoms = no
		can_create_empires = no
		can_imprison_without_reason = no
		can_revoke_without_reason = no
		dukes_called_kings = yes
		barons_need_dynasty = yes
		can_usurp_kingdoms_and_empires = no
		can_grant_kingdoms_and_empires_to_other_government = no
		can_be_granted_kingdoms_and_empires_by_other_government = no
		can_inherit = no
		free_retract_vassalage = yes
	}

I think these are the two crucial blocks:

1. Feudal goverment is invalid for characters who COULD be order government:
Code:
	feudal_government = {
...
		potential = {
...
			NOT = { is_government_potential = order_government }

2. Order government is valid for all AI non-MR vassals (direct or indirect) of holy orders
Code:
	order_government = {
...
		potential = {
			OR = {
				holy_order = yes
				AND = {
					any_liege = { ##### Definition: "Scopes to all lieges a character has, regardless of how many tiers above."
						holy_order = yes
						religion = ROOT
					}
					ai = yes
					##### (Snip some complex conditions that boil down to "is not a merchant republic")
			}

So, in theory, when AI feudal characters become vassals of a holy order, their feudal government status will be revoked (#1) and they will be forced into order government (#2).

Also; can they form the kingdom of England?

In theory, yes. In practice, they will need significant excess gold and piety.

Note that they cannot usurp kingdoms or empires. So, if you want them to form kingdoms, you need to ensure that those titles don't exist.

Oh and theres a 40 Intrigue woman in my court wich I cant apoint as spymaster, she can be any Position but spymaster, why?

Are you blocked from firing your current spymaster for some reason? (Eg: You're in a regency and your spymaster is your regent.)
 
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I looked into the code, and I think they might. However, the only way to know for sure is to test it out. (Make a backup save so you can revert if you're in ironman.)

The relevant code for both feudal and holy order governments is set in ...\common\governments\feudal_governments.txt

Code:
    feudal_government = {
        preferred_holdings = { CASTLE }
        allowed_holdings = {
            CASTLE
            FORT
            HOSPITAL
        }
        allowed_holdings_culture = { # Will not get the wrong government type penalty for tribes of the same culture
            TRIBAL
        }
        accepts_liege_governments = { # Gets the wrong religion modifier instead
            muslim_government
            theocratic_feudal_government
            chinese_imperial_government
        }
        free_revoke_on_governments_religion = { # Tribal vassals of other religions can have their titles revoked for free
            tribal_government
        }
        potential = {
            OR = {
                controls_religion = no
                religion_group = muslim
                has_religion_feature = religion_temporal_head
                AND = {
                    religion = norse_pagan_reformed
                    has_religion_features = no # Old saves, and campaigns without HF, need the Fylkirate to continue working
                }
            }
            NOT = {    religion_group = muslim    }
            NOT = { is_government_potential = roman_imperial_government }
            NOT = { is_government_potential = order_government }
            NAND = {
                culture_group = tibetan_group
                OR = {
                    religion = bon
                    religion = bon_reformed
                    religion = buddhist
                }
                higher_tier_than = BARON
            }
            NAND = {
                tier = EMPEROR
                primary_title = { has_title_flag = pretender_chinese_empire }
                OR = {
                    culture_group = chinese_group
                    culture = khitan
                    culture = tangut
                    culture = jurchen
                    has_character_flag = chinese_imperial_government_preserve
                }
            }
            is_patrician = no
        }
       
        color = { 91 133 207 }
       
        dukes_called_kings = yes
        barons_need_dynasty = yes

        can_build_tribal = no
       
        ignore_in_vassal_limit_calculation = {
            tribal_government
        }
        capital_move_delay = 600

        ## Modifiers
        court_size_modifier = 10
    }

Code:
    order_government = {
        preferred_holdings = { CASTLE }
        allowed_holdings = {
            CASTLE
            TEMPLE
            TRIBAL
            FORT
            HOSPITAL
        }
        accepts_liege_governments = {
            feudal_government
            muslim_government
            theocracy_government
            theocratic_feudal_government
            chinese_imperial_government
        }
        free_revoke_on_governments = {
            order_government
        }
        free_revoke_on_tiers = {
            BARON
        }

        forced_contract = {
            order_government
        }

        frame_suffix = "_order"
        title_prefix = "order_"

        potential = {
            OR = {
                holy_order = yes
                AND = {
                    any_liege = {
                        holy_order = yes
                        religion = ROOT
                    }
                    ai = yes
                    NAND = {
                        is_government_potential = merchant_republic_government
                        OR = {
                            tier = DUKE
                            is_patrician = yes
                        }
                        any_demesne_province = {
                            any_province_holding = {
                                OR = {
                                    AND = {
                                        tier = BARON
                                        holding_type = family_palace
                                    }
                                    AND = {
                                        NOT = {
                                            tier = BARON
                                        }
                                        holding_type = city
                                    }
                                }
                            }
                        }
                    }
                }
            }
        }

        color = { 169 169 169 }

        have_gender_laws = no
        can_create_kingdoms = no
        can_create_empires = no
        can_imprison_without_reason = no
        can_revoke_without_reason = no
        dukes_called_kings = yes
        barons_need_dynasty = yes
        can_usurp_kingdoms_and_empires = no
        can_grant_kingdoms_and_empires_to_other_government = no
        can_be_granted_kingdoms_and_empires_by_other_government = no
        can_inherit = no
        free_retract_vassalage = yes
    }

I think these are the two crucial blocks:

1. Feudal goverment is invalid for characters who COULD be order government:
Code:
    feudal_government = {
...
        potential = {
...
            NOT = { is_government_potential = order_government }

2. Order government is valid for all AI non-MR vassals (direct or indirect) of holy orders
Code:
    order_government = {
...
        potential = {
            OR = {
                holy_order = yes
                AND = {
                    any_liege = { ##### Definition: "Scopes to all lieges a character has, regardless of how many tiers above."
                        holy_order = yes
                        religion = ROOT
                    }
                    ai = yes
                    ##### (Snip some complex conditions that boil down to "is not a merchant republic")
            }

So, in theory, when AI feudal characters become vassals of a holy order, their feudal government status will be revoked (#1) and they will be forced into order government (#2).



In theory, yes. In practice, they will need significant excess gold and piety.

Note that they cannot usurp kingdoms or empires. So, if you want them to form kingdoms, you need to ensure that those titles don't exist.



Are you blocked from firing your current spymaster for some reason? (Eg: You're in a regency and your spymaster is your regent.)
So it's similar to how it works with the Papal States (IIRC the feudal lords all lose their territory to assorted prince-bishops).
 
Question: Why did my duchy of brabant is being Incorportated to the kingdom of Norway when I've had the kingdom of Frisia as my chosen kingdom the entire time?

20230422183834_1.jpg


Can provide more info if needed.
 
Question: Why did my duchy of brabant is being Incorportated to the kingdom of Norway when I've had the kingdom of Frisia as my chosen kingdom the entire time?

View attachment 970872

Can provide more info if needed.

Was Brabant part of Norway for a while? Then it's still drifting out of Norway.