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Beyond Tannenberg II: The Knight's Tale

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Spannie is gonna win! :mad:

;)

Seriously though, I believe he will. He has much support, and I think he has the determination to 'persuade' some more support.
 
Chief Ragusa: That's an interesting question. The ex-Duke of Mecklenburg wanted autonomy for his home city. Would he still be so eager if he could rule over it all? Von Reval may find he's been outwitted.

You are right: Von Spanheim should have stayed out of it, and he'd be happier if he had. However a deal between him and von Mecklenburg would have been difficult. Remember von Salza promised 'control of the army' and interfered often enough to make an enemy.

As you say, the Habsburgs, Hohzenollerns, and lots of descendants are all in the wings watching the battle.

J. Passepartout: Hm. I like your idea. Simple. Direct. :)

Fulcrumvale: Unfortunately the Ottomans are on the other end of the continent. :)

Draco Rexus: That's hard to say right now. I didn't expect von Salza's assassination. (It only became obvious when I had the 'Assassination of Noble' event.) Nor did I expect this post to go quite like it has. I no longer know.

stnylan: As you say, reform and counterreform tends to bring out the worst in people. This may indeed require a sword for the Gordian knot.

grayghost: Von Salza was actually turning into a fairly effective Hochmeister. If he'd just left things alone he could have gone down as one of the greats. Unfortunately he never really had his own vision, proved far too easy to influence, trusted the wrong people, and ultimately his lack of self confidence led him astray. Unfortunately von Strichlund envenomed the matter. If Hochmeister von Salza went to the Conclave with his ideas, even if he tried to force it von Spanheim could have fought him as Gotthard von Kettler defeated von Danzig all those years ago.

Avernite: Von Spanheim has significant support. Will it be enough?
 
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-= Interlude 8 =-​


Marienburg, Baltic Order
May 2, 1624


"My brothers," Syrta von Reval, Grand Tressler of the Baltic Order turned to the assembly of komturs, rittermeisters and senior officials that made up the forty-two man conclave. "I first wish to thank Grand Komtur von Keefe for allowing me to speak before the vote, and express my pleasure at the spirit of debate in this hallowed place." He waved his hand to encompass the great cathedral. "It is a sign of the greatness of our Order, and the men leading it, that we can discuss our differences in a civil manner."

He paced to the altar, bowed his head to the statue of the sacrificed Christ, then again faced the gathering. "Let us not forget what brought us here today. We were not meant to gather and elect a new grand master. No, we were supposed to meet and discuss a vision. Hochmeister von Salza's vision."

"Lord von Salza dreamed of an Order without the divisive ties that have split us for so long, where the Conclaves often turn bitter because their sole purpose - our sole purpose - is to elect one man who may do what he wills with the komturs and we may say naught. The hochmeister is the supreme commander in matters spiritual and physical. We are taught that from the moment we take our first vows. Hochmeisters who are city born can force those in the country to do their will and vice versa."

"There was a time when this was necessary. There was a time when every day was a fight for survival against Pagan or Pole. Put another way, there was a time when we relied on physical and moral strength to ensure our survival, and we needed to organize like an army of God. Our ancestors, great men all, found guidance and counsel in the Catholic military orders and the Papacy. God has shown the world his displeasure with them, and yet despite several attempts at reform we still mimic their style."

Von Salza paused. "Lord von Spanheim is to be honored, not for his views which I disagree with, but because his skill in raising an army proved we no longer need such restrictions. We thrashed the Poles. We secured our honor and our destiny. We no longer need to fear our enemies - and so we may move towards a more enlightened state."

"Lord von Spanheim and his followers have called Lord von Salza's dream that of a merchant republic. Incorrect. What he offered was autonomy for the larger cities. They would have their own courts. Their own means of choosing a komtur. I realize some of you perceive that as a threat, but I am not clear why. Luebeck has a population of three hundred THOUSAND. Danzig over one hundred-fifty. Do you want to say the Order's administration is built to handle properties of that size? I promise to you it is not. I promise to you that laws that may work admirably for Lord von Hesse in Vilnius with his Lithuanians does not answer on the Baltic coast. Why should we be bound by one law? By one man?"

"I can promise you one other thing, my friends. Grant the cities this, and you will see a productivity and efficiency unrivaled. There was a time Luebeck ruled the financial world. The Italian states followed. Now it is our turn."

"Some of you will no doubt remind me that concentrating on finances is beneath a true knight. You're right. Remember, however, it is coin that feeds the hungry, that comforts the hurt, that converts the enemy. Even Lord von Spanheim's army needs coin."

"Is that enough reason to continue the Hochmeister's works? I think so, but I will give you another. I remind you again we were not to meet here to choose a new lord. Hochmeister von Salza was foully murdered by a man who, possessed by some evil spirit I assume, stopped him the only way his black heart knew how. Do this because if you don't, the enemies of the Order have already won."

He looked around one last time. "In this spirit, I therefore am withdrawing from consi...!"

The cathedral erupted in shouts. Guards shifted nervously back and forth.

"Withdrawing from consideration, and hereby give my vote to Adolf Friedrich von Mecklenburg. As you honor me, support his vision as the continuation of Hochmeister von Salza's great works!"

More shouts. Von Keefe seemed in danger of losing control of the hall, glancing around until von Spanheim stood. He smiled as the elder knight spoke.

"Freedom. The Grand Tressler claims to offer this. It's a heady gift, one far stronger men than you and I have found tempting. However, freedom from what? From our Hochmeister? From the tyranny of this Conclave? What does this defend our people against?"

Von Spanheim paced to the altar and spun. "Lord von Reval suggests an evil spirit led Komtur von Strichlund to folly. I would remind him that temptation, offering something you want that will turn you away from what is right, is the tool of the Enemy."

He clasped his hands behind his back. "No one has ever claimed being a knight was easy. It requires things my opponents do not mention: Service. Sacrifice. Honor. The willingness to do what is right not because it is easy, but because it is what we believe to be true. Being a knight is about submission - submitting to higher authority, and in so doing learning to submit to God."

"Lord von Reval warns us that a dishonorable hochmeister may 'do as he wills' with the komturs. Perhaps this is true, but who elects the hochmeister? We do. Who is best qualified to determine if a man is ready to serve, to give his life to the Order? We are."

"He suggests that laws that are good enough for Vilnius are not good enough for the Baltic. I would remind him that even today the laws are different from land to land. Most of the local laws are given to us by... the komturs. Most Hochmeisters have been very reluctant to intervene in local affairs unless something is happening that might endanger the entire Order. That is one of his tasks, to ensure the health of the knighthood. If that means some conformity, then that is the price of a strong, healthy society."

"What Komtur von Reval offers isn't freedom, but chaos. He has forgotten that the soul of Christianity isn't 'do as thou wilt,' but lies in service and obedience, trust and faith in God."

He held his hands out. "Lastly he reminds us of Komtur von Strichlund's error. Yes. He did a horrible thing, and now it will be our Savior who judges what was in his heart. He felt our very way of life was threatened. His folly lay in not trusting this Conclave to see what would be best for the knighthood. His folly lay in not trusting God. I bid you judge not his horrible mistake. I bid you instead to focus on what will allow our Order to prosper and continue to serve as an example to Europe, and what will turn us into a merchant republic." He sneered the last, then added. "Thank you."

"Anyone else?" von Keefe asked. Von Mecklenburg stayed silent. He knew many resented him as an outsider. He thought it best to let von Reval do his fighting for him. "Then I will call the register."

Close. Very, very close. Most of von Reval's supporters joined the Mecklenburger, but not all. At the end of the call von Keefe took a long, hard look at the two acolytes with abacuses who diligently tracked the vote.

Round 3 said:
Adolf Friedrich von Mecklenburg 22
Konrad von Spanheim 20
Click to expand...

"Very well," von Keefe added, then: "Komtur von Spanheim, will you retire from consideration?"

He thought about it, then shook his head. "No."

The cathedral once more erupted in shouts. Von Keefe didn't seem to understand. His request was mere formality to, on paper at least, allow for an uncontested succession. He raised both hands in a futile attempt to stop the noise.

Von Reval stood. "Silence! And what do you mean, 'No?'"

"No. I do not retire from consideration."

"It does not matter. Lord von Mecklenburg has majority."

"He will not rule."

"The Conclave has spoken!"

"The Conclave has been tricked by pretty words," von Spanheim sneered. "I honor them, but they are wrong. Lord von Mecklenburg would destroy everything we stand for on the slimmest of possible margi..."

"You did it, didn't you?" Von Mecklenburg jumped to his feet. "You killed the Hochmeister!"

The crowd's eager talking ceased, as if on a whim God simultaneously stole their breath.

Von Spanheim stood. "I believe I heard you incorrectly. What did you say?"

"I said you killed the Hochmeister! You killed him then let von Strichlund take the fall!"

"HOW DARE YOU!" Von Spanheim's face twisted. "You, who have no honor, no courage, no understanding what it means to be a knight. You will not be Hochmeister!"

"Even now he spouts treason! Guards! Seize him!"

The soldiers near the door exchanged uncertain gazes. One half-stepped forward, faltered when his brethren didn't follow, and stepped back.

"Guards!"

Von Spanheim lifted his chin and clapped twice. The knights, followed quickly by their errant companion, snapped to attention.

"They will not obey a false hochmeister," he said softly.

"Traitor!" von Mecklenburg snarled.

"If this be treason, let's make the most of it."

The Conclave erupted again. Only once, between 1253 and 1256, did the then Teutonic Order have two grand masters. It resulted in a schism that could easily have destroyed them.

Von Spanheim's supporters, many of them quite alarmed at this but determined to be on the winning side, exchanged shouts with the Mecklenburger's allies. The soldiers shifted back and forth, uncertain whether to break up the crowd or not.

Insults devolved to shoving between old men, many of whom had never fought in their lives. With a single word, Konrad von Spanheim led the Baltic Knights to the brink of civil war.
 
Wow, I never expected Von Spanheim to go against the vote. I thought that he would lose again in very much the same way he lost the first time and he did. But to deny the conclave? Spanheim controls the army, but the komturs, I believe, have personal retinues? This will be extremely interesting. Ok Cat, you got me. Now take me for a ride. ;)
 
Now that will set the cat among the pigeons, but given that Mecklenburg would have almost certainly have done something rash like try to arrest Spanheim anyway, and therefore set this series of events in motion anyhow, it is perhaps better the crisis is here and now.
 
Oh boy this should be good... i'm hoping for the reformers to win... maybe a talented young general will come to the foray and make a an excellent case for monarchy...
 
I would hope for the conservatives to win, just because a religious miltary order surviving till the twentieth century is cool, but I am worried the partisans of that idea are not going to be as good at politics and war as their enemies.
 
Two very excellent speeches given by to very empassioned believers. Nicely done, Cat, I felt moved by both.

However, what has gotten my heart and mind is von Spanheim's steadfast refusal to allow what he thinks wrong and von Mecklenburg's total loss of control by actually accusing von Spanheim in the cathedral, most uncouth on his part. :eek:o

I will have to side with von Spanheim in this case, and I have the feeling that the Order's army will side with him as well... or at least the majority of it. However, all that means is that the Order is once again at war but with itself this time. There can be no winners, only survivors, and I hope the traditionalists are the surviviors.
 
Keefe's action is odd. He should have proclaimed Mecklenberg the new Hochmeister. Asking Spannheim to step aside was a mistake. Now the Conclave is set to continue until a result is arrived at that both the candidates can agree.

Since there has been a similar event, a rule ought to exist that says what is to happen next. The rule is that von Keefe is acting Hochmeister until the election of a new Hochmeister.

Mecklenberg has accused Spannheim of murdering the previous Hochmeister. I think that means a trial. As the charge is against one of the great officers of the Order, the three other great officers have to preside. The reform to get rid of the unnecessary great officers has now come back to bite the Order. The judicial panel is Keefe, Reval and Spannheim. I suppose Spannheim could elect to fight a duel with Mecklenberg.

The Knights were members of the Hanse. They knew the difficulties the smaller cities had in getting help when in need and the power games the bigger cties were wont to play. Lubeck was guilty of most of the manipulation. The Komturs will be wondering just who is behind Mecklenberg. Your allies who have diplomats present will be writing or going home suggesting that their royal masters should attend in person as a third party will be needed to break this deadlock.

If Mecklenberg were to lose one of the additional votes in Conclave, he'd also refuse to withdraw. I think I'm down to the final non-civil war option: allow the entire membership of the Order to vote including lay brothers and sisters.
 
Oh my... :eek:
 
Spannie! Spannie! Spannie!

Did he know? Did he understand what Mecklenburg would accuse him of?

In such a divided state, his position as wrongly accused, if he manages to keep it up, is what he needs.

He has, in my opinion, did the best he could to save the Order. And did better than I had expected for a conclave defeat, by immediately bringing his opponent down a notch.
 
grayghost: I hope you'll settle for a political ride. :)

stnylan: Pretty much. Von Mecklenburg lost it, as Draco says, and in so doing set off the crisis. He would have been much wiser to wait.

Maximilliano: Reformers? Okay!

J. Passepartout: Traditionalists? Okay!

Draco Rexus: Von Spanheim's refusal can be taken as good or bad. We can admire his refusal to let something 'bad' happen, as you do and so do I ... but in so doing he's opening the door to something far worse.

Chief Ragusa: Keefe's action is traditional. If you'll recall, when we started the Teutons followed the old Curia method: 66% of the komturs. However I noted that it was custom for weaker candidates to bow out, as has happened all along, and for everyone to do so when a majority was reached to keep things moving and prevent TOO many compromises.

Von Spanheim's action is...questionable. Under the Teuton model it would have been poor taste but legal. I forget if anyone after von Plettenberg changed it over.

There really was no Teuton law about what to do if someone refuses to submit. Between 1253-56 there were two Grand Masters: Basically a majority party and a minority party. I've found very little on their schism, except the minority guy submitted to the next GM. I get the impression they ignored each other.

Mecklenburg's accusation must be dealt with, yes.

Fulcrumvale: I thought you liked internal conflict?

Avernite: He didn't know Meck would accuse him, though he knew some wondered just what he was doing in von Salza's apartments.
 
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-= Interlude 9 =-​


Marienburg, Baltic Order
May 2, 1624


In the four hundred year history of the Teutonic, Livonian and Baltic Orders they'd faced many hardships. Wars without number, crushing defeats, betrayal, crises of faith, rebellion, civil war and murder. They faced each challenge with stubborn independence, determination and faith. Every time fate deigned to knock them off their perch they'd get up, perhaps make a few adjustments, and come right back.

Shouts echoed through the sacred halls of Marienburg cathedral. Men who gave their lives to God and country, who believed in the ideals of what the Order stood for, quarreled and shoved, threatened and swore vengeance.

This then was the end of all things, as four hundred years of honor, courage and devotion vanished like dew before a summer's sun.

Grand Komtur von Keefe stood in front of the riot. Twice he shouted for attention, but none could hear him now. Grand Marshal von Spanheim stared. appalled. "God help us," he whispered. "What have I done?" Then he saw a figure arguing with the confused soldiers. He stole something from the soldier's belt. No. No! "NO!"

The pistol shot echoed like a cannon in the sanctuary's confines. Windows trembled. A stained glass depiction of the Virgin Mary exploded raining debris on the arguing Conclave. As one they shielded their heads and slowly turned to the back of the room.

Peter von Habsburg, Komtur of Breslau, handed the smoking pistol back to the knight. "When I was a boy, my grandfather took me into the crypts below this cathedral. There you will find the grave statues of every grand master. He bid me look on them. Some managed great works. Some made horrible mistakes. All served the Order."

"My grandfather lies with them now. He, the men down there, your ancestors and predecessors, all gave their lives serving God, the Order, and each other. You would destroy everything they fought and died for, and why? I have spoken with many of you. You all want to strengthen our people. You disagree on how. Indeed, this rivalry between first Danzig and the other komturs, and now Luebeck as well has been building for a century. It's time to end this."

"Though I believe that should be the focus of this Conclave, we have a more important matter first." He pointed at von Mecklenburg. "Where is your proof?"

The former duke stood and glared. "What are you babbling about?"

"You accuse the Grand Marshal of murder. No murderer may ever be permitted to be Grand Master." He waited for the rumbling to die down. "No man who falsely accuses a fellow knight can be Grand Master. Where is your proof?"

"The Conclave has spoken, child!"

"Check again. Lord von Keefe has not pronounced a winner. I voted for you. I hereby withdraw my vote. You no longer have majority. Where is your proof?"

Komturs began talking excitedly.

"A fair question," von Spanheim purred.

Von Mecklenburg's face mottled with rage. "He was in the room duelling von Strichlund!"

Georg Wilhelm von Hohzenhollern spoke up. "Von Keefe said von Strichlund confessed!"

"He did," the Grand Commander confirmed.

"So? He was protecting his teacher!"

"The teacher who just killed him?" von Habsburg asked. "Is that the extent of your proof? If so, then I call on the Conclave to judge Marshal von Spanheim's innocence or guilt in this matter."

"You can't do this!" von Mecklenburg roared.

"He can," von Keefe replied. "You raise a very serious charge, and given Lord von Spanheim's rank a Conclave, while not mandatory, can decide."

"Then let him be questioned! A few hours in the dungeons and the truth will be out!"

Von Reval stood, incredulous. "You would interrogate the Grand Marshal?"

"I would interrogate a traitor!"

Komturs continued talking rapidly. This was the man they wanted to elect?

"Grand Komtur von Keefe?" called von Hesse. "I call for a revote." Enthusiastic support, even from those eager to back the Mecklenburger.

"Not so quick," Peter von Habsburg said. He slowly walked down the center aisle. "For we must end this rivalry, and we must do so in a way that prevents this from happening again. We may or may not support Komtur von Spanheim, but the fact is his refusal to submit could have caused extreme danger to the Order."

Supporters once more began to shout. Von Spanheim raised his hand. "Silence! I want to hear what he has to say."

Von Habsburg turned at the altar. "The cities are afraid of being dominated by ways and methods that will prevent their growth. The other komturs are afraid of losing their values, tradition, and authority. Fine. I propose we allow for three masters. The first will represent the cities and guilds and be elected or certified solely by them. The second will represent the rest of the Order and maintain the values and traditions we stand for."

"The third?" von Hohzenollern asked.

"The third must serve with both, and lead us all."

"Other than reorganizing the Grand Council you leave us in the same position as before."

"No, Lord von Spanheim." He paused. "The third must be above the rivalry, so must reside in a place large enough to understand Baltic issues, and small enough to support the Order's traditions. The third should be the new Komtur of Marienburg."

He tensed against the expected barrage of questions and continued. "He must be willing to work with both, and I believe that means not being dependent on either for his livelihood or succession. This third position cannot be bogged down by Conclave votes that a man may choose to ignore. This tie-breaker between the other two must be hereditary and immune to interference from either the City or Knight masters."
 
Believe me, I love watching internal strife and civil war. But “Oh My… :eek: ” seemed like an incredibly appropriate thing to say at the time.
 
Sounds like this has been on Hapsburg's mind.

What a pretty pickle they have gotten themselves into.
 
True, it was convention that allowed for simple majorityto determine the election of a grandmaster and withdrawal by the defeated candidate(s). They could continue voting until the two-thirds majority was attained.

The rule is pretty clear that any dispute between the brothers must be resolved before they can go to bed and before daylight of the following morning. Does, indeed, sound like a pretty pickle.

There's nothing to stop Mecklenberg withdrawing his accusation. He seems too adroit a politician to miss that possibility, if too hot-headed to stay calm in a crisis. Keefe could accept Hapsburg's change of vote and cast the casting vote for one of the two candidates. I suspect he'd back Spannheim. Mecklenberg would then have to decide whether or not to withdraw.

Rule changes such as the one Hapsburg is proposing seem more in the Grand Chapter sphere than the Conclave's. Spannheim wouldn't accept the idea of an hereditary Hochmeister. The Order founded 90 cities and over 2000 villages, so it knows a thing or two about city governance. Spannheim may create an officers to look after the Cities/Trade(Bergmeister) and another (Rittermeister) to look after the Order's holdings - its hospitals, monasteries, enforcement of the Rule - and suggest any revision/new building that may be required.
 
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I was afraid things were going to get really ugly there for a minute. And then they abruptly turned... interesting. I have to echo Fulcrumvale by saying, "Oh my." :eek:
 
Long live the house of habsburg! Long live Peter von Habsburg, Grand Komtur of the Baltic Order!
 
Fulcrumvale: Oh My it is.

stnylan: Reading over this AAR I've noticed they seem to get in this pickle quite a bit. I wonder if my understanding of multi-candidate elections is off. :)

Chief Ragusa: The current Charter was instituted by von Habsburg. Unfortunately, as you're about to read, they forgot some important details - like how to win an election. :) As for the Rule, von Habsburg modified it but it's little changed from the Teutonic ideal. The problem is that von Mecklenburg's only been a knight a very short time. He probably doesn't know the Rule. He almost certainly doesn't care. I think this, more than vM's plans, is why von Spanheim's so dead set against him. I don't think he would have refused if von Reval won. Grumbled, but not refused.

Draco Rexus: Well, the ugly would have been interesting too. Maybe next time :)

J. Passepartout: The idea of a hereditary position permanently in a position to influence if not dictate Knight policy is definitely troublesome. In practice (if not in theory) many of the komturs have been hereditary for awhile now. I don't know why you don't like poor Peter...

Maximilliano: ..I mean, Max does. :)
 
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