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Ganso said:
Why not a "roleplay" approach to the whole subject of expansion? Instead of trying to impose strict rules that might even reduce the game to a exercise of bending the rules one could try to find a middle ground.

I'm not quite sure I understand. Are you saying that any and all expansion is allowable, provided you have a reasonable explanation?

I suppose in a way this would work. After all, if you reason is entirely without merit it is unlikely the other players will let you get away with it. In other words, look at Germany in 1939. Had Poland truly invaded them and started the conflagration it is less likely the UK and France would have been inclined to help them. Example: I, as a vassal of Germany, grab rsobota's title (he's close) and DoW, thereby bringing the entire might of the HRE down upon his duchy. Unless he has done something incredibly vile (assassination attempt on my duke, excommunicate me without reason, etc.), the other players aren't going to take too kindly to this. It's the medieval equivalent of dropping a nuke onto your neighbor without any sort of provocation at all.

Not that I would do any such thing (I picked a German duchy because (a) I've never played as one, and (2) because it was one of the few regions without a human player, not so I could go rampaging across the continent without ever really doing anything). But were I to do so, it would be much more reasonable for the other human players to organize some sort of punitive expedition or to cut of all relations with my duchy until I offered reparations, as opposed to, say, kicking me from the game or deducting a title.
 
Manstein16 said:
I suppose in a way this would work. After all, if you reason is entirely without merit it is unlikely the other players will let you get away with it. In other words, look at Germany in 1939. Had Poland truly invaded them and started the conflagration it is less likely the UK and France would have been inclined to help them. Example: I, as a vassal of Germany, grab rsobota's title (he's close) and DoW, thereby bringing the entire might of the HRE down upon his duchy. Unless he has done something incredibly vile (assassination attempt on my duke, excommunicate me without reason, etc.), the other players aren't going to take too kindly to this. It's the medieval equivalent of dropping a nuke onto your neighbor without any sort of provocation at all.

Not that I would do any such thing (I picked a German duchy because (a) I've never played as one, and (2) because it was one of the few regions without a human player, not so I could go rampaging across the continent without ever really doing anything). But were I to do so, it would be much more reasonable for the other human players to organize some sort of punitive expedition or to cut of all relations with my duchy until I offered reparations, as opposed to, say, kicking me from the game or deducting a title.

You made a good point. Actually, in-game BB doesn't calculate this alright, but supposed we want to establish a balance of power, then all the players have to work to keep it. Because the balance of power is the only way to keep a fun gameplay and avoid a conquering rampage and a player being much more powerful than others. This is an old concept in RL diplomacy and CK is a good environment to apply it.
 
Well, it sounds like all this discussion about rules has certainly clarified what sort of game we want to play.

Great stuff people!

Now I just need to finnish my AAR before next session... :D

fasquardon
 
rsobota said:
You made a good point. Actually, in-game BB doesn't calculate this alright

Exactly. In the above scenario you would be a Duke without a duchy, while I would only have lost the amount of bb equivalent to grabbing a title and taking it. In other words, not much considering the circumstances.
 
The problem with balance of power often is however that some decide to go after their own agenda within it however. For example one goes on rampage, the others decide to DoW him to keep the balance. They take lands for themselves. Wrong way. If you try that, stay reasonable, don't try to steal land that way but rather free the annexed Kingdom if possible. You may of course give it to a family member, but no female one and no heir of yours. It's ok to give it to your nephew however.
 
CSK said:
The problem with balance of power often is however that some decide to go after their own agenda within it however. For example one goes on rampage, the others decide to DoW him to keep the balance. They take lands for themselves. Wrong way. If you try that, stay reasonable, don't try to steal land that way but rather free the annexed Kingdom if possible. You may of course give it to a family member, but no female one and no heir of yours. It's ok to give it to your nephew however.

Naturally. You could probably impose reparations on the belligerant kingdom in the form of a few counties or a duchy (after all, you should get something for your troubles and expense), but an all-out dismemberment of a player kingdom should be left as a last resort (i.e., the player consciously and flagrantly violates the rules for several weeks on end and the game basically turns into the other players acting as police and nothing else). With the current slate of players, however, I don't foresee this being a problem.

I'm getting pumped for this. Anyone else? :D
 
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Manstein16 said:
Naturally. You could probably impose reparations on the belligerant kingdom in the form of a few counties or a duchy (after all, you should get something for your troubles and expense), but an all-out dismemberment of a player kingdom should be left as a last resort (i.e., the player consciously and flagrantly violates the rules for several weeks on end and the game basically turns into the other players acting as police and nothing else). With the current slate of players, however, I don't foresee this being a problem.

I'm getting pumped for this. Anyone else? :D

I'm getting worried i'm going to get gangbanged as soon as I lie my hands on Arabia.
 
Okawoa said:
I'm getting worried i'm going to get gangbanged as soon as I lie my hands on Arabia.

Nahh, see, by that point, everyone will be distracted by the Pan-Slavic empire I'll have built :p

fasquardon
 
Wohoo, just 3 hours and 40 minutes to go! :D
 
CSK said:
Usually you just make up another thread in this forum, called Anyone for an MP game diplomacy thread (I still think we should change the name).
I don't think we need a Diplomacy thread. Just post here if you want to keep your negotiations open, or PM the player if you want a more private negotiation. That's it.
 
Guys, I've got a problem. My business' server's offline and the other folks who could go deal with it left town for three days. I just found out, and it'll take at least an hour for me to go over there, deal with it, and come back. My comp's ready to go though, so if there's a rehost, I'll try to hang around Vnet when I get back so CSK isn't AI'd for the whole session.

CSK, I notice you're posting here. Are you alright to play today afterall?

Sorry about this folks, I was looking forward to playing a good session with you today.
 
Argh, just half an hour to go... can't wait!

I haven't played the game for well over a week now, so it will be a special pleasure.

Just to make sure.. who is going to be the first host, and do I need to have the savefile on my comp? I log in into the Valkyrienet and into the crusaders channel?
 
No, I have to do some work from 18:00 on. I promised my teacher to help him with the long night of museums in my school. Even if I have no work to do I'd get in for free, which is kinda good deal.

And as long as Alania isn't annexed (or nearly) until next session I'm fine with it.

Yeah, and my current PC is so crappy because the old doesn't work that it wouldn't be fun anyway. Last time I played at my fathers place and I'll try to get it that way I'll be at his place every weekend until my good PC works again.
 
I've tried the F11 thingie for grabbing screenshots and it doesn't work... strange huh?
 
Brasidas said:
Guys, I've got a problem. My business' server's offline and the other folks who could go deal with it left town for three days. I just found out, and it'll take at least an hour for me to go over there, deal with it, and come back. My comp's ready to go though, so if there's a rehost, I'll try to hang around Vnet when I get back so CSK isn't AI'd for the whole session.

CSK, I notice you're posting here. Are you alright to play today afterall?

Sorry about this folks, I was looking forward to playing a good session with you today.

I'm sure we'll experience quite a few rehosts so it shouldn't be a problem. We'll let you know when we rehost by posting in this thread so you won't be sitting around just waiting :)
 
Ganso said:
I've tried the F11 thingie for grabbing screenshots and it doesn't work... strange huh?
Just look at your main CK folder after taking a screenshot. If not, then your keyboard might be broken... Let's not hope so ;).