Biggest problem after becoming big is the amount of plots you have to click to end. I generally never have revolts(unwanted)unless randomness has made a character die early......and set off a regency.
Anyone else find that the latter half of the game gets boring?
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Haven't been playing this game. Was VERY excited at launch, and got into it a bit, but then got distracted and figured I'd wait for a few patches.
I also only read about the first page of this thread, not all posts.
My brief response to the theme of the thread: the real problem is that (a) the game is too easy overall; (b) the 'resolution' of the game is not quite right for it to _keep_ its allure for the long haul.
Based on what little playing I did, the game is very easy and formulaic. The only real challenge to it, is to figure out how to beat the AI, and then tediously implement those efforts until you beat the AI down and take his stuff. I'm not saying that to sound like an attack on the game; it is a fantastic game, and I hope to eventually get the time and inclination to come back and play it more. But it is rather formulaic.
They have done an AMAZING job of putting together all the pieces, all the interconnections, an amazing array of historically-realistic detail, all the basic operating principles, but the flow of play itself doesn't feel either (a) historical and challenging or (b) alternate history and challenging (ala Europa Universalis III for example). I had to busty my hump playing as Castille in EU3 for like 1.5 centuries in order to achieve an "Empire" that was in all honesty just _slightly_ bigger than what one could conceive as viable alternative history (all of Iberia, one-province deep belt along southern coast of France, most of northern Italy). In terms of what the two games are modelling, this was in a setting some hundreds of years later, with better industry, better infrastructure, better education, better training, more proto-nationalistic ethos, etc., all of which means that a somewhat ahistorical oversized Kingdom or mini-Empire should be EASIER in a game like EU3, but I'm pretty sure it is not.
To put it simply, JUST going from Count to Duke should be challenging, take years if not a generation or more, and also be fun. Going from Duke to King should be proportionally more involved. Becoming an Emperor (unless you are dealing with certain special cases in game) should be even more involved I would think.
I also only read about the first page of this thread, not all posts.
My brief response to the theme of the thread: the real problem is that (a) the game is too easy overall; (b) the 'resolution' of the game is not quite right for it to _keep_ its allure for the long haul.
Based on what little playing I did, the game is very easy and formulaic. The only real challenge to it, is to figure out how to beat the AI, and then tediously implement those efforts until you beat the AI down and take his stuff. I'm not saying that to sound like an attack on the game; it is a fantastic game, and I hope to eventually get the time and inclination to come back and play it more. But it is rather formulaic.
They have done an AMAZING job of putting together all the pieces, all the interconnections, an amazing array of historically-realistic detail, all the basic operating principles, but the flow of play itself doesn't feel either (a) historical and challenging or (b) alternate history and challenging (ala Europa Universalis III for example). I had to busty my hump playing as Castille in EU3 for like 1.5 centuries in order to achieve an "Empire" that was in all honesty just _slightly_ bigger than what one could conceive as viable alternative history (all of Iberia, one-province deep belt along southern coast of France, most of northern Italy). In terms of what the two games are modelling, this was in a setting some hundreds of years later, with better industry, better infrastructure, better education, better training, more proto-nationalistic ethos, etc., all of which means that a somewhat ahistorical oversized Kingdom or mini-Empire should be EASIER in a game like EU3, but I'm pretty sure it is not.
To put it simply, JUST going from Count to Duke should be challenging, take years if not a generation or more, and also be fun. Going from Duke to King should be proportionally more involved. Becoming an Emperor (unless you are dealing with certain special cases in game) should be even more involved I would think.
The game is easy (as soon as you understood the basic mechanics) and it seems to be designed that way to get newcomers easily allured into it compared to other Paradox games.
I'm stll hoping that Henrik has this cunning plan to allure casual gamers into CK2 and make the game bigger, more complicated and harder later on.
Its a trap !
So then Henrik would have to change his nickname to Black Adder.
There simply has to be such a cunning plan.
:laugh:
I'm stll hoping that Henrik has this cunning plan to allure casual gamers into CK2 and make the game bigger, more complicated and harder later on.
Its a trap !
So then Henrik would have to change his nickname to Black Adder.
There simply has to be such a cunning plan.
:laugh:
I think a big issue is trying to make the game challenging without making it so through constant small revolts.
I tend to hand out the king tier titles so that I have less direct vassals to deal with, also Prince and Thane mod adds lots of flavour that keeps things interesting. In regards to polts unless it is against one of my family I let it go, why do I care.
I think revolters should plot to get others to join and that it should be very difficult to detect the plot so that revolts may only happen once or twice a generation, but when they do it is a real battle to maintain your empire/kingdom.
I tend to hand out the king tier titles so that I have less direct vassals to deal with, also Prince and Thane mod adds lots of flavour that keeps things interesting. In regards to polts unless it is against one of my family I let it go, why do I care.
I think revolters should plot to get others to join and that it should be very difficult to detect the plot so that revolts may only happen once or twice a generation, but when they do it is a real battle to maintain your empire/kingdom.
Those who complain it gets boring late-game should only blame themselves. The OP mention he control Western Europe and Scandinavia and wonders why it gets boring ? You played your game that way, it is your problem if you feel unchallenged now.
The player has an enormous tactical advantage against AI because Brain > AI. It's obvious that if you carefully micromanage all your army, pause/unpause and gather doomstack to destroy your enemies you will eventually become the strongest dog in Europe. Is it what make you enjoy this game ?
Personally, I Role-Play this game. I try to act in accordance with my ruler stats. I keep the game running and almost never pause so I can make mistakes more easily. I don't predetermine what realm I want to get, I expand a bit randomly and don't abuse on forged claims or de facto claims. Sometimes I wage wars that I know I can't win. If I lose I end up with a simple prestige loss but such a good time.
If you have to fight rebels every 3 minutes it's because : First you're empire is crap and should be dismantled. Second, because you don't allow that to happen because you have that superior tactical advantage against AI which make you can win every wars against those rebels. (And btw, don't disband your levee everytime if you know another rebellion going to pop-up, just saying).
If you think your style of playing is boring... maybe you should consider changing your style, what you think ?
The player has an enormous tactical advantage against AI because Brain > AI. It's obvious that if you carefully micromanage all your army, pause/unpause and gather doomstack to destroy your enemies you will eventually become the strongest dog in Europe. Is it what make you enjoy this game ?
Personally, I Role-Play this game. I try to act in accordance with my ruler stats. I keep the game running and almost never pause so I can make mistakes more easily. I don't predetermine what realm I want to get, I expand a bit randomly and don't abuse on forged claims or de facto claims. Sometimes I wage wars that I know I can't win. If I lose I end up with a simple prestige loss but such a good time.
If you have to fight rebels every 3 minutes it's because : First you're empire is crap and should be dismantled. Second, because you don't allow that to happen because you have that superior tactical advantage against AI which make you can win every wars against those rebels. (And btw, don't disband your levee everytime if you know another rebellion going to pop-up, just saying).
If you think your style of playing is boring... maybe you should consider changing your style, what you think ?
Im in a game where I wanted to play very expansive but i grew tired around 1300 crushing down rebel vassals and rebel armies. Europa Universalis 3 was kinda fun even when you had a big empire (IMO, there are others stating the opposite), because you had standing armies. In CK2, raising all those levies or just a part of it is extremely boring even if you know how to do it relatively quickly. Rebels also seem to spawn without reason and that wasnt the case in Europa Universalis unless your empire was already crumbling because of a major thing.
One thing is sure, Im not gonna play expansionist again... well, maybe just a WC to get Galicia written all over the map
One thing is sure, Im not gonna play expansionist again... well, maybe just a WC to get Galicia written all over the map
This game is ultra boring if you don't implement some form of house rules.
Many players won't do certain things that (usually) make the game very easy.
E.g I won't marry in a completely ridiculous way. I know 1.06 made it so you can marry pretty much anyone , but that doesn't mean we have to use it. There is no way the Kaiser of the HRE would marry his 2nd son to my 8th daughter Matillineally yet its a very easy option if i want.
Likewise i can rapidly take over almost anything if i use assassinations in places.
Over all you have to play in a way that makes up for the developers lack of focus in the game. I do think all the gamey tactics shouldn't even be options to begin with , but thats how it is , and if you want a more fulfilling game , i suggest applying some house or *role play* rules. Oh and at 1200 every game , make an anti pope and watch chaos spread.
I DID mod out alot of those annoying things. Peasant rebellions won't occur in my games due to different culture. It wasn't a challenge it was just tedious. I even modded Crown laws so that Medium ca no longer prevents vassals from fighting (this itself is huge , now sometimes vassals actually become strong enough to challenge the top liege (me).). I also hit some of the rationality modifiers for imbeciles and lunatics to make it more obvious. If you thought having the ai control your son was bad before , just pray he doesn't get imbecile l0l.
I suggest you try your hand at it. There were alot of things that i didn't like. Once you start to play around with the txt files , you can see things you might find interesting. Its very easy to do.
Many players won't do certain things that (usually) make the game very easy.
E.g I won't marry in a completely ridiculous way. I know 1.06 made it so you can marry pretty much anyone , but that doesn't mean we have to use it. There is no way the Kaiser of the HRE would marry his 2nd son to my 8th daughter Matillineally yet its a very easy option if i want.
Likewise i can rapidly take over almost anything if i use assassinations in places.
Over all you have to play in a way that makes up for the developers lack of focus in the game. I do think all the gamey tactics shouldn't even be options to begin with , but thats how it is , and if you want a more fulfilling game , i suggest applying some house or *role play* rules. Oh and at 1200 every game , make an anti pope and watch chaos spread.
I DID mod out alot of those annoying things. Peasant rebellions won't occur in my games due to different culture. It wasn't a challenge it was just tedious. I even modded Crown laws so that Medium ca no longer prevents vassals from fighting (this itself is huge , now sometimes vassals actually become strong enough to challenge the top liege (me).). I also hit some of the rationality modifiers for imbeciles and lunatics to make it more obvious. If you thought having the ai control your son was bad before , just pray he doesn't get imbecile l0l.
I suggest you try your hand at it. There were alot of things that i didn't like. Once you start to play around with the txt files , you can see things you might find interesting. Its very easy to do.
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a lot of the same issues for me. It becomes a real pain to gather armies together when you have a huge empire. In my Hispania game, I find I'm actually really reluctant to go to war, just because its gotten so uninteresting. all I do is gather everyone into a couple of doom stacks, and crush the enemy. There is nothing interesting or strategic about out it anymore.
I do the same too. That way if you have a pesky vassal who is at risk of revolting there's a chance you can rightfully imprison him.
Near end game, in the intrigue menu, I usually have something like 40-50 plots discovered.
This is true in the sense that CKII is heavily affected by randomness. My genius king is finally set to take the empire to glory and then he dies naturally at age 23 and his imbecile brother is now your character! That kind of crap doesnt happen in EUIII where you can plan every detail and it will come through.
To the OP yeah you knew already what we would say to your constant rebellion problem. Hand out those kingdom titles, you get the same amount of prestige as holding them and makes it sooooooooooooo easy to manage yoru vassals.
I do basically the same thing, do what my ruler would do, do not educate my heir or educate him either with some bad traits, I do not fabricate claims, I do not assassinate. But then I would like to have the world historically plausible. The problem is that ai does only one thing: gets stronger and stronger or weaker and weaker - depending on the levy size.
Great mods like CK2+ are able to slow down this process, but it is not enough. There should be some "balance of power" mechanic, that would support the cooperation of weaker and losing sides of world conflicts.
If muslims lost Jerusalem, they shall cooperate and beat the second crusade headed to Egypt. The same in Iberia.
And the whole HRE shall be overhauled. I hate seeing HRE with medium CA to press de jure claims on Bohemia. This is very improbable. The local resistance would be much more tougher, your own vassals in HRE would be upset and maybe revolt. I would like to see more interesting elections in HRE (not only diplomacy tournament, but some politics), pope excommunicating Kaiser, antikings leading revolts.
Generally there should be less attempts to depose liege (designated by god!) and more to lower crown authority. And if your ruler with multiple kingdom titles dies, there are local nobles who want to weaken you, neighbouring rulers who were weaker than you, but now have an opportunity to strike and there is always intriguing pope, who can excommunicate you if you disobey. Player shall be afraid of losing every territory outside his de jure primary kingdom and start from the beginning. Because ups and downs make the game challenging. Unfortunately there are almost no downs.
I am much of the same opinion; I played an England game from 1066 to 1453 and a Lombardy -> Italy game from 1337 to 1453 and that's really all I'll play, I think. CKII has some amazing moments and gameplay concepts, but the majority of the game is tedious busywork, and more so when you've got a bigger realm to govern.
In a way, I feel a problem is that the events in the game always have easy options, or are entirely inconsequential. They pop up, but barely count as gameplay. The only way vassals can really interact with their liege is by rebellion, and that's just silly.
Edit: while the game is at is, do impose some limits. Playing a gavelkind multi-duke, using only your vassals as tutors and not marrying for stats is more fun than powergaming.
In a way, I feel a problem is that the events in the game always have easy options, or are entirely inconsequential. They pop up, but barely count as gameplay. The only way vassals can really interact with their liege is by rebellion, and that's just silly.
Edit: while the game is at is, do impose some limits. Playing a gavelkind multi-duke, using only your vassals as tutors and not marrying for stats is more fun than powergaming.
It really depends on the situation. I normally start the game in either 1337 or earlier. So I don't have to play through all the 400 years to reach the last half of the game.
How about a game that is immersive by itself without requiring the player to jump through hoops he first has to invent?
How about not requiring the player to tie 1.5 hands behind his back to make a game fun?
Well, how about that.
Maybe we need a mod that makes expanding beyond 1 empire impossible (all neighbours unite to crush the perceived danger, economic penalties, rebellions, etc), so that there's a maximum size a player can get before it collapses on him. Maybe a League of Resistance should form upward of the player reigning over 100+ counties.
If the game was so restrictive that world conquest or massive expansion was not possible at all this thread would have you all here complaining about it aswell...
If the game was so restrictive that world conquest or massive expansion was not possible at all this thread would have you all here complaining about it aswell...
That's why a mod
Paradox forum in the nutshellIf the game was so restrictive that world conquest or massive expansion was not possible at all this thread would have you all here complaining about it aswell...
Maybe maximum of 2-3 direct vassals per Diplomacy stat point.So it forces you to give up some of those titles......(especially King titles) and also penalize players who maximize personal desmesne counties.(all those bishops and mayors count against limit.)
In my current game I'm Kaiser of HRE and I have some 60 direct vasssals including 3 Kingdoms.I spend so much time on vassal relations I don't have time to conquer the world......pretty much like the real HRE.
In my current game I'm Kaiser of HRE and I have some 60 direct vasssals including 3 Kingdoms.I spend so much time on vassal relations I don't have time to conquer the world......pretty much like the real HRE.