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In my China game I managed to westernize around the 1870s. No one was interested in sphering Japan and Russia gobbled up half of it until I decided to take the remaining half.

I'm not sure whether you end up in a better position after westernizing, but I've seen all kind of countries around me managing to successfully go through the process. I'm not sure whether it would make sense for those nations to be westernized, but it definitely makes them a lot stronger and stalls European expansion.

Some odd things I've noticed is that the North African nations miss a lot of action compared to before the expansion and they're still around more or less intact. I also can't imagine that to change since those countries are in France's sphere and/or on their way to westernization.

British dominance also seems to have been brought to an end, but I think it's maybe a little bit too much. Greatest powers in my game 1) USA, 2) China, 3) NGF, 4) Great Britain.

What sadly hasn't been changed is the Dutch willingness to fight the British over Belgium and the German tendency to reduce Denmark to Copenhagen.
 
In my China game I managed to westernize around the 1870s. No one was interested in sphering Japan and Russia gobbled up half of it until I decided to take the remaining half.

I'm not sure whether you end up in a better position after westernizing, but I've seen all kind of countries around me managing to successfully go through the process. I'm not sure whether it would make sense for those nations to be westernized, but it definitely makes them a lot stronger and stalls European expansion.

Some odd things I've noticed is that the North African nations miss a lot of action compared to before the expansion and they're still around more or less intact. I also can't imagine that to change since those countries are in France's sphere and/or on their way to westernization.

British dominance also seems to have been brought to an end, but I think it's maybe a little bit too much. Greatest powers in my game 1) USA, 2) China, 3) NGF, 4) Great Britain.

What sadly hasn't been changed is the Dutch willingness to fight the British over Belgium and the German tendency to reduce Denmark to Copenhagen.

I don't think it is unreasonable for the UK to be ranked behind USA and Germany by the late game. Having China at 2) is a special case as it is player controlled.
 
Do those pesky unciv event that boost research fire for you guys? I'm playing as Japan for AHD and its not firing at all, did they take it out?. I'm in 1863 with 85% civ.
 
In my game as Korea I civilized in 1910 and it didn't fire even once..Idk, I'm not sure it was such a great idea as it is in it's current form. The years between 1836 and 1910, I just had Vic2 in window mode checking every 10-15 minutes if some event popped up and paused the game, there was completely nothing for me to do other than adjusting budget in beginning and changing clergymen national focus every now and then.

It's probably easy for countries that are in USA or UK SoI since early game, as being in Russia's didn't do anything much, except draining every last drop of money from my economy.

At same time, I had 0 revolts throughout game, so I didn't even need to keep active army which I deleted eventually so my soldiers convert to farmers/labourers to make money, but in the end there's NOTHING for player to do in most uncivilized countries play-through, other than going berserk on other uncivs and conquering everything until you are done civilizing, but that's not into my taste, especially with Korea which starts as China's puppet.

Besides, in this time frame, if unciv country tried conquering other countries few thousand miles from it, it'd get instantly omnomnomed by UK or France.

ps. Please add another speed level which speeds up game 10 times more than current fastest, so at least it doesn't take 2-3 hours of doing nothing so you can actually play a country you are interested in..
 
ps. Please add another speed level which speeds up game 10 times more than current fastest, so at least it doesn't take 2-3 hours of doing nothing so you can actually play a country you are interested in..

Agreed, I actually fell asleep during my first game of AHD as China
 
I just had a fun game as Persia westernizing yesterday. During the non-westernized part of the game I conquered my surroundings (afghanistan, kalat, punjab, sindh, etc) and used focuses to increase bureaucrats and clergy. I westernized in the 1880's and ended up with the 5th best industry in the world and the Ottoman Empire and Russia in my sphere. All this despite not being a very good Victoria player (Russia wasn't having a good game way before I westernized). I'd say the catching up after the actual westernization part isn't that bad honestly (I expected it to be harder).
I don't think I had a boring game either, though obviously experience is bound to differ depending on what country you play and what westernization reforms you pick (Persia is far from the hardest country to westernise with after all).

I did never see any of the events that's supposed to boost research though.
 
It seems like you didn't read the tooltip for the reform you're getting rid of. And haven't read the manual ;)

Reading any kind of manual is cheating and spoils the fun when something unexpected happens. ;)
 
How can I get the 2nd Meiji restoration decision? I only got the Early Meiji Restoration one.
 
Do those pesky unciv event that boost research fire for you guys? I'm playing as Japan for AHD and its not firing at all, did they take it out?. I'm in 1863 with 85% civ.

I was curious if they even existed. I hadn't seen any special events fire at all. The only bonus I had was teh Meiji Restoration decision.
 
The game should just throw the uncivs a bone and give them the construction goods for free.

That would work too... it doesn't make sense to wait all that time to get a "free" factory that will never give you a better industry score or employ any of your people because it never finishes.
 
I'm beginning to think that the best strategy is to beeline for the Education reform and then just accrue RPs until being sphered. Unless you want to pass reforms you think will give you benefits during the unciv period, it's better to wait and get the reforms at their discounted rate in a sphere. I think there are different arguments to be made but that would seem to be the most RP-efficient route to do it.
 
I just had a fun game as Persia westernizing yesterday. During the non-westernized part of the game I conquered my surroundings (afghanistan, kalat, punjab, sindh, etc) and used focuses to increase bureaucrats and clergy. I westernized in the 1880's and ended up with the 5th best industry in the world and the Ottoman Empire and Russia in my sphere. All this despite not being a very good Victoria player (Russia wasn't having a good game way before I westernized). I'd say the catching up after the actual westernization part isn't that bad honestly (I expected it to be harder).
I don't think I had a boring game either, though obviously experience is bound to differ depending on what country you play and what westernization reforms you pick (Persia is far from the hardest country to westernise with after all).

I did never see any of the events that's supposed to boost research though.

I totally agree. Playing as Panjab was pretty fun, a lot of justifying CBs and avoiding the rage of the civilised nations. As for the research boosting events, do you mean the western presence, legate and military missions events? If so then I got them in the hundreds. I probably lost about half my starting population from all of those events (my constantly 9.9 militancy didnt help)
 
As for the research boosting events, do you mean the western presence, legate and military missions events? If so then I got them in the hundreds. I probably lost about half my starting population from all of those events (my constantly 9.9 militancy didnt help)

I haven't seen these at all. I'm not even sure what file they'd be in...

EDIT: I think I found it in CivilizationAndGunBoats.txt. Looks like it kicks off with Wind of Westernization (ID 13000) with MTTH of 360 months. The other conditions simply are that you are not civilized (duh), independent, and not part of a sphere. I haven't seen this event at all playing as China, Japan, or Persia. There are flags that are set by the two choices that this event gives. You either accept the western influences or choose unciv'd isolation. I wonder if some of the larger uncivs are automatically flagged as unciv'd isolated and that's why people aren't seeing these.
 
I'm beginning to think that the best strategy is to beeline for the Education reform and then just accrue RPs until being sphered. Unless you want to pass reforms you think will give you benefits during the unciv period, it's better to wait and get the reforms at their discounted rate in a sphere. I think there are different arguments to be made but that would seem to be the most RP-efficient route to do it.
Personally I think the tax reform is the better choice, unless you can afford to run at 100% education from the start.
 
Personally I think the tax reform is the better choice, unless you can afford to run at 100% education from the start.

Not sure... I'm going to check. I'm experimenting now with China. I know that they're super easy, but I just want to play around with Westernization with the military threats for the moment. I noticed that Land Reform and Admin Reform basically did nothing important. The education reform was pretty good and increased the growth of my literacy rate by about .01% which is pretty good since China is a glacier that's nearly impossible to steer. I'll try going for the tax reform to see if it helps. I have military and stockpile at 0% with the poor and rich taxes to max and middle class to minimum. I'm barely balancing the budget though.
 
The new system is interesting, and I think fair. To many posters' points, it can be tedious at times, but others it is quite interesting. I've done two tries with Persia. The first I went with the Education reform as my first pick. Annexed Abu Dhabi, Bukhara, and Khiva in the lead-up to Westernization. Got into Russia's sphere and civilized in the 1880s. My max RP generation was in the low 3s before I civilized. After civilizing, I still had a hard time with the budget and eventually the Turks DoWed me. What shocked me was that Russia refused to intervene, and I was in real bad shape.

I read some thoughts from those who have played through Westernization a few times, and gave it another go. This time I had as my strategy the goal of getting in the UK's sphere, in the hopes of higher techs. Annexed Makran early and then Sindh, which gave me a border with the UK (with whom I brought relations to 200). The one downside to eventually getting into the UK sphere was that my tariff income went to 0.3.

I went for the Admin boosting reform first with the logic it would help with clergy promotion (brought Admin efficiency to 100% in Tabriz, my largest state by population, then switched to clergy). That's when events got slightly out of my control - Panjab, a UK sphereling, DoWed me and called Bukhara to the war. I had Afghanistan and Kokand as allies, and they very effectively acted as cushions. Afghanistan was largely overrun and peaced out of the war, which turned out to be great: Bukhara no longer had a land connection with me, and Panjab lost much of its army to attrition in Afghanistan. I was left with an open door to invade Panjab. At the beginning of the war I had no intentions of conquest, but my infamy had dropped low enough and seeing that Panjab was in the UK sphere, I decided to annex it (with the logic it would be harder later).

One of the reasons I targeted Sindh early on was for its tea RGO. I've been reading that tea seems to be the biggest difficulty for clergy POPs, and once I conquered Sindh I found my clergy in much better financial shape. Taking Panjab only increased that benefit, and with so many POPs to tax and tea in high demand I was able to bring my finances to much better health. I coasted for much of the Westernization process, taking Kalat in the interim. Many POPs in Panjab migrated to other areas of the Empire, so by Westernization a state that had 1.8 million POPs had ~800K. However, even with that drop I used a clergy NF in Panjab and was able to significantly raise my clergy % (for an unciv). By Westernization in 1879 I was bringing in mid-4 RPs per day.

After Westernizing this time around, I got fairly similar techs, even considering being in the UK sphere. First tier for all categories with a few second tiers thrown in (not the best haul but so it goes). However, my economy exploded and by building factories in a few populated states I was well on the way to industrial progress. My new tax base allowed me to greatly expand the military - I was even able to purchase some ships. I took Abu Dhabi early on knowing that it would fill up with Persian POPs when conquered (I have since made it into a state). My first big test came in a war with the Turks. They were battling an alliance of the UK and Russia, with Germany and Austria on their side. The English were besieging much of Mesopotamia, which was my target. I justified a Free People wargoal for Iraq, and early battles met with success. However, the UK and Russia made peace shortly after I DoWed, and suddenly a steady stream of Austrian troops came pouring into Mesopotamia. I was pushed back into western Persia and won defensive battles only when odds were stacked in my favor. I had 5 30K-men armies and reserves called up. The war lasted almost 5 years, however, I was not bankrupted (maintenance only became a real problem towards the end - for a significant period I was still able to run a surplus). I eventually prevailed and was able to free Iraq and am now in the late 1880s with my next target as Afghanistan.

To sum up, two completely different outcomes on Westernizing. I civilized not too far apart in terms of time in both games, but the difference was in how and what state my economy was in after. I think the tax base from Panjab and the easy access to tea made the difference in trial 2. Not so sure the UK sphere helped as much - what it did do was make Army reforms cheaper (I only did two Economy reforms: Admin and the lower-tier Construction; no Education reform this time). In both games though I have noticed that the sphere leader is reluctant to enter into wars, regardless of badboy.
 
Being in the UK's sphere sure helps when going to war with other countries in that sphere. I agree that annexing Sindh is very useful in a Persian game (not just for the tea though, it's also very densely populated) and that the administrative reform is actually _very good_ to have despite what other's in this thread argue (and I did exactly the same thing with bureaucrats in Tabriz as you did).
Another nice trick is annexing Afghanistan, it seems that country has higher literacy than Persia, when I conquered it I was able to enact the Persian RP-boosting decision right away afterwards, something that greatly helps for a would-be western Persia.