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Toio said:
If the historic bad option is in action A , then with the AI choosing A 90% of the time, then its a further burden on the AI to match a human.

If you have the historic in action B , then the AI will choose a more favorable one from action A. and so will the human. (if you go down this road, then remove all actions except one)

In conclusion , (with bad events ), whats the point in either:
1) having these events
or
2)having more than one choice for these events. This is lunacy. Don't you think. :rolleyes:

if an event has no historical action within its actions , then remove it. place it in fantasy land.

If an event (as you say above) is constantly being avoided by a human because its bad and the AI suffers, change it to reflect all to suffer from it.

That's a level of stringency which can hardly be afforded in the crazy-random universe of the EUII AI...
 
Toio said:
Fix your POR files as I have done and they do not run out of areas to explore.

FIX the areas of exploration. if you do not know how to do it ,I sent copies of changes needed on the new AI test thread for fodoran.

I test what most people place on these forums, do you?
That's not very a helpful piece of advice, and will not bring us forward.
I do not test most material that are placed on the borads, du to RL time constrains.
 
Norrefeldt said:
That's not very a helpful piece of advice, and will not bring us forward.
I do not test most material that are placed on the borads, du to RL time constrains.

@Norrefeldt

I am here to help the AI EU2.

Now if you can send me your email address, I will forward you my POR files that I use.
You can test them and see how easy it is to use.
they are easy to read there ar NO extra events.


There is nothing to do except a straight swap.

I have only amended these files to 1520 as the rest work very well once the "foundations" are set

If you give me Jinnai email as well , I will send them to him also

I am not computer literate in the ability to use this forum to forward/attach these files. Thats why I am asking for your email address.

- in regards to colonization wars for the POR, I have only very minor ones so can you please let me know what provinces are causing these wars

Muni is a medium province for native strength
 
Toio,
You simply fail to grasp my main point. The player and the AI far exceed what the Portugese historically managed to do. If you look at this map http://www.acs.ucalgary.ca/applied_history/tutor/eurvoya/africa.html
you can see just how far they got in multiple voyages. This translates into the Mauretanian Coast, Gorée Island and the Coast of Gambia by 1445. The Cape Verde Islands were found 5 years later. Add in the Gold Coast by about 1460 and the Ivory Coast sometime around 1470.
To put it into game terms that's 3 whole sea zones in a solid decade of exploring with another three added in another 15 years. A single explorer can usually manage to discover two sea zones a year, depending on this travel time. And how many explorers do the Portugese have before 1450? Let's see, Gil Eannes (3 years), Nuno Tristao (3 years), Dinis Dias (2 years), Baldaia (1 year), Gonçalves (3 years), and Velho (1.5 years). So if we add up all the explorer/years (13.5) and multiply by 2 to approximate the number of sea zones that they'll discover... Does anyone else see a problem here in comparison to the _3_ sea zones that they historically discovered during this time? Even if we refocus Velho on actually finding the Azores in 1427, that only reduces the total to 24 sea zones.
It seems obvious to me, even if I only act as historically as Toio would like, that I'm going to discover far more sea zones than the Portugese could even dream of doing historically. Now I'll grant that players are much smarter than the AI, but that really doesn't mean squat in comparison to the gross disparity of exploration capability currently granted Portugal compared to what they were actually able to achieve.

What I'm thinking is to reduce the human player's ability to explore to match what they really could do historically. This will mean that both the numbers of explorers need to be reduced and their lives shortened so that they can only explore one or two areas before dying, even if the human player leaves them at sea until they die. This may mean that the coastal provinces may not be explored for some time as there's only a ten percent chance each time an explorer passes by. This is a real problem for the Azores and Cape Verde, which are critical for the Portugese player, as I've found out in some of my tests so I think the solution is to let them be known to the player, but not the sea zones surrounding them. Also neither had any population of any size at the start of the game, so the cities there need to be deleted.
I'll run some tests to evaluate what combination of explorers and time best recreates the pace of the Portugese exploration of West Africa, but I suspect that each explorer will only live about six months or less as I believe using one explorer to discover each sea zone is probably best.

As for reaching Malacca by 1515 maybe what's necessary is to allow the explorers of that time the ability to survive at sea for however long it actually took them. This may mean that they have maneuver ratings of 24 or whatever, but that's a different problem to worked out later. I freely admit that I tend to play only the colonizing countries so the fixing the AI is a lesser concern for me than it is for others, but I'll not apologize for that because I believe that the game must be fixed first for human players and then the AI can be tweaked to replicate historical performance.

Jason
 
sturmvogel said:
Toio,
You simply fail to grasp my main point. The player and the AI far exceed what the Portugese historically managed to do. If you look at this map http://www.acs.ucalgary.ca/applied_history/tutor/eurvoya/africa.html
you can see just how far they got in multiple voyages. This translates into the Mauretanian Coast, Gorée Island and the Coast of Gambia by 1445. The Cape Verde Islands were found 5 years later. Add in the Gold Coast by about 1460 and the Ivory Coast sometime around 1470.


I understand what you are referring to, but there is NO way I will comprise the AI game , as I do not care what humans do.

You fail to realise that I am interested in ONLY the AI game because I have NO control of what each human player does. Do you understand, NO control of what each human player does.

I , if playing POR will never go into the indian ocean, I would discover the americas far earlier than the spanish,
we need to cater the game for the AI to achieve near enough historical goals to satisfy the many "historians" who would like it that way. Also to make a better game for us humans to enjoy.

I can imagine the multiple complaints we would receive from humans saying that the AI por does not discover this or that or they don't reach indonesia blah, blah , blah

To put it into game terms that's 3 whole sea zones in a solid decade of exploring with another three added in another 15 years. A single explorer can usually manage to discover two sea zones a year, depending on this travel time. And how many explorers do the Portugese have before 1450? Let's see, Gil Eannes (3 years), Nuno Tristao (3 years), Dinis Dias (2 years), Baldaia (1 year), Gonçalves (3 years), and Velho (1.5 years). So if we add up all the explorer/years (13.5) and multiply by 2 to approximate the number of sea zones that they'll discover... Does anyone else see a problem here in comparison to the _3_ sea zones that they historically discovered during this time? Even if we refocus Velho on actually finding the Azores in 1427, that only reduces the total to 24 sea zones.

your calculations do not take in consideration the deaths of idle explorers,

again , I do not see this happening with the AI por explorations.I have viewe d over 70 AI por games and have never seen these huge areas explored before there time.

It seems obvious to me, even if I only act as historically as Toio would like, that I'm going to discover far more sea zones than the Portugese could even dream of doing historically. Now I'll grant that players are much smarter than the AI, but that really doesn't mean squat in comparison to the gross disparity of exploration capability currently granted Portugal compared to what they were actually able to achieve.

Many years of work went into the POR files to get them to explore as historically as we can, I mean not just me , but many modders have worked on them. Granted they need adjustments, but that is NOT in the explorers but where they explore.

You can always kill of these "extra" explorers you get while playing POR and leave yourself with only 1.
Again , thats a human choice which I have NO control over,

What I'm thinking is to reduce the human player's ability to explore to match what they really could do historically. This will mean that both the numbers of explorers need to be reduced and their lives shortened so that they can only explore one or two areas before dying, even if the human player leaves them at sea until they die. This may mean that the coastal provinces may not be explored for some time as there's only a ten percent chance each time an explorer passes by. This is a real problem for the Azores and Cape Verde, which are critical for the Portugese player, as I've found out in some of my tests so I think the solution is to let them be known to the player, but not the sea zones surrounding them. Also neither had any population of any size at the start of the game, so the cities there need to be deleted.

As i said before, show some integrity in the way you play as a human.

do not explore with more than 1 explorer then, leave the rest to die of in port or delete them.

you can always discover greenland as well :p

I'll run some tests to evaluate what combination of explorers and time best recreates the pace of the Portugese exploration of West Africa, but I suspect that each explorer will only live about six months or less as I believe using one explorer to discover each sea zone is probably best.

do not bother in running human tests as they are meaningless, run AI test. they must be done by:
- final destination with year you require (historical)
- work backwards from there
- run tests to 1520 and let me know what the AI por sees

If I was to run human tests, my results would most likely be that I have found brazil before 1450 with only 1 explorer. :p

As for reaching Malacca by 1515 maybe what's necessary is to allow the explorers of that time the ability to survive at sea for however long it actually took them. This may mean that they have maneuver ratings of 24 or whatever, but that's a different problem to worked out later. I freely admit that I tend to play only the colonizing countries so the fixing the AI is a lesser concern for me than it is for others, but I'll not apologize for that because I believe that the game must be fixed first for human players and then the AI can be tweaked to replicate historical performance.

YOU fail to realise that the AI have limitations in its engine for explorations and also you fail to see, that the game is first meant to improve the AI so that the smarter humans can get greater pleasure from it.
Humans can adapt, AI is confined to its AI file.
 
sturmvogel said:
Toio,
You simply fail to grasp my main point. The player and the AI far exceed what the Portugese historically managed to do. If you look at this map http://www.acs.ucalgary.ca/applied_history/tutor/eurvoya/africa.html
you can see just how far they got in multiple voyages. This translates into the Mauretanian Coast, Gorée Island and the Coast of Gambia by 1445. The Cape Verde Islands were found 5 years later. Add in the Gold Coast by about 1460 and the Ivory Coast sometime around 1470.


I understand what you are referring to, but there is NO way I will comprise the AI game , as I do not care what humans do.

You fail to realise that I am interested in ONLY the AI game because I have NO control of what each human player does. Do you understand, NO control of what each human player does.

I , if playing POR will never go into the indian ocean, I would discover the americas far earlier than the spanish,
we need to cater the game for the AI to achieve near enough historical goals to satisfy the many "historians" who would like it that way. Also to make a better game for us humans to enjoy.

I can imagine the multiple complaints we would receive from humans saying that the AI por does not discover this or that or they don't reach indonesia blah, blah , blah

To put it into game terms that's 3 whole sea zones in a solid decade of exploring with another three added in another 15 years. A single explorer can usually manage to discover two sea zones a year, depending on this travel time. And how many explorers do the Portugese have before 1450? Let's see, Gil Eannes (3 years), Nuno Tristao (3 years), Dinis Dias (2 years), Baldaia (1 year), Gonçalves (3 years), and Velho (1.5 years). So if we add up all the explorer/years (13.5) and multiply by 2 to approximate the number of sea zones that they'll discover... Does anyone else see a problem here in comparison to the _3_ sea zones that they historically discovered during this time? Even if we refocus Velho on actually finding the Azores in 1427, that only reduces the total to 24 sea zones.

your calculations do not take in consideration the deaths of idle explorers,

again , I do not see this happening with the AI por explorations.I have viewe d over 70 AI por games and have never seen these huge areas explored before there time.

It seems obvious to me, even if I only act as historically as Toio would like, that I'm going to discover far more sea zones than the Portugese could even dream of doing historically. Now I'll grant that players are much smarter than the AI, but that really doesn't mean squat in comparison to the gross disparity of exploration capability currently granted Portugal compared to what they were actually able to achieve.

Many years of work went into the POR files to get them to explore as historically as we can, I mean not just me , but many modders have worked on them. Granted they need adjustments, but that is NOT in the explorers but where they explore.

You can always kill of these "extra" explorers you get while playing POR and leave yourself with only 1.
Again , thats a human choice which I have NO control over,

What I'm thinking is to reduce the human player's ability to explore to match what they really could do historically. This will mean that both the numbers of explorers need to be reduced and their lives shortened so that they can only explore one or two areas before dying, even if the human player leaves them at sea until they die. This may mean that the coastal provinces may not be explored for some time as there's only a ten percent chance each time an explorer passes by. This is a real problem for the Azores and Cape Verde, which are critical for the Portugese player, as I've found out in some of my tests so I think the solution is to let them be known to the player, but not the sea zones surrounding them. Also neither had any population of any size at the start of the game, so the cities there need to be deleted.

As i said before, show some integrity in the way you play as a human.

do not explore with more than 1 explorer then, leave the rest to die of in port or delete them.

you can always discover greenland as well :p

I'll run some tests to evaluate what combination of explorers and time best recreates the pace of the Portugese exploration of West Africa, but I suspect that each explorer will only live about six months or less as I believe using one explorer to discover each sea zone is probably best.

do not bother in running human tests as they are meaningless, run AI test. they must be done by:
- final destination with year you require (historical)
- work backwards from there
- run tests to 1520 and let me know what the AI por sees

If I was to run human tests, my results would most likely be that I have found brazil before 1450 with only 1 explorer. :p

As for reaching Malacca by 1515 maybe what's necessary is to allow the explorers of that time the ability to survive at sea for however long it actually took them. This may mean that they have maneuver ratings of 24 or whatever, but that's a different problem to worked out later. I freely admit that I tend to play only the colonizing countries so the fixing the AI is a lesser concern for me than it is for others, but I'll not apologize for that because I believe that the game must be fixed first for human players and then the AI can be tweaked to replicate historical performance.

YOU fail to realise that the AI have limitations in its engine for explorations and also you fail to see, that the game is first meant to improve the AI so that the smarter humans can get greater pleasure from it.
Humans can adapt, AI is confined to its AI file.
 
Toio said:
YOU fail to realise that the AI have limitations in its engine for explorations and also you fail to see, that the game is first meant to improve the AI so that the smarter humans can get greater pleasure from it.
Humans can adapt, AI is confined to its AI file.
I agree with you fully. If the player wishes to develop and explore historically, he can just do it historically, without using all the game opportunities, which could be received. It is similar to the issues with personal game philosophy such as world conquering or cheating.
 
Toio: I was not arguing that the ai files were bad, nor even that the ai isn't important. I'm justing saying that AGCEEP has to consider what humans do as well in certain cases.

As for Portugal, unless removing those explorers won't hurt ai portugal, leave them in. Don't arbitrarly change their start/death dates.
 
Toio,
Get a grip on what I'm saying. Even if I do everything exactly as the Portugese did and never venture west, I handily exceed what they were historically able to accomplish. So do not speak to me of human choices being responsible for the problem because they are quite blatantly not the issue here, although you surely are fixated on that being the root of the problem.
And please tell me once more that you have no control over human actions, I'm not sure that I understood it the first dozen times, but that's not the issue. And how do you not not understand that following the historical usage of these explorers is an absolute requirement to evaluate the game's performance, for good and bad? So I have been doing everything as the Portugese actually did for these tests; what I've been doing my own games is entirely irrelevant and I'm not referencing them anymore. Have you noticed that? So kindly cease your dismissive comments about "integrity"; they are rather irrelevant to the subject at hand.
I am well aware that the AI is a poor explorer, especially when more than one explorer is available. And it generally doesn't explore areas that it historically didn't. But I will note that the Corte-Real brothers died exploring the Newfoundland area, which means that the AI needs to send them there rather than into the Indian Ocean. Although perhaps they simply die in port because they overlap.
I too would like to increase the AI's abilities, but I would first rather not give the human players any unrealistic abilities in the name of increasing the AI's abilities when there are plenty of mechanisms that we can use that won't allow a human to exploit them. From AI only events to whatever else we can think of doing. But, I repeat, humans should not be able to exploit whatever we do to get the AI to perform historically.

For example I'm willing to bet that the AI lets at least one or two of the three explorers that the Portugese get between 1444 and 1446 die in port having explored nothing significant. So then why are they in the game if the AI can't effectively use them and they allow the human player to explore areas that the historical Portugese had no ability to explore?

My fundamental point, which you singularly fail to understand, is that I can explore the Indian Ocean and Brazil on the historical timeline, ___PLUS___ have explored the Caribbean and North America. Can you seriously argue that I shouldn't only be able to do one or the other?

Since you understand the AI better than I do please tell me just how far the AI manages to explore along the African coast by 1445, 1460 and 1470 so I can get a feel for how the AI manages things. Most all of my games have been as Portugal so I really don't know how well it does in the early game and I'd like to use your experience with the Portugese AI. How far does it get before Portugal gets Dias and da Gama?

First I'll determine what will keep the human players on the historical timetable and then test that with the AI to figure out how much help it needs to match that. Then extend the playtest, etc.

I expect to need some assistance in modifying the AI files, can I count on you for this? And wasn't it you who suggested deleting the CAM area to prevent the AI from bogging down in Kribi, etc. ahistorically?

Jason
 
Jinnai said:
Toio: I was not arguing that the ai files were bad, nor even that the ai isn't important. I'm justing saying that AGCEEP has to consider what humans do as well in certain cases.

so whats your answer then??

1)give the human as well as the AI the same choice??

or

2) remove the event entirely


As for Portugal, unless removing those explorers won't hurt ai portugal, leave them in. Don't arbitrarly change their start/death dates.

I do not want them removed, :confused: are you talking to the right person???

there deathdate was a proposal submitted long ago, which was rejected by IB.
its an option , I was thinking about.

I said the explorers should not be touched BUT their areas of exploration should be looked at as it needs minor tweaking
 
sturmvogel said:
And it generally doesn't explore areas that it historically didn't. But I will note that the Corte-Real brothers died exploring the Newfoundland area, which means that the AI needs to send them there rather than into the Indian Ocean. Although perhaps they simply die in port because they overlap.

The Zeno brothers were there in the 1380s (greenland and newfoundland), the corte brothers were using the zeno maps, do we give Venice the knowledge of knowing that area or the ability to explore that area with explorers, NO. this is because its a minor issue, the real issue for POR is to get to japan and indonesia within a certain time.

I too would like to increase the AI's abilities, but I would first rather not give the human players any unrealistic abilities in the name of increasing the AI's abilities when there are plenty of mechanisms that we can use that won't allow a human to exploit them. From AI only events to whatever else we can think of doing. But, I repeat, humans should not be able to exploit whatever we do to get the AI to perform historically.

To give only AI events, you need to propose these for all to view, its not my decision.

For example I'm willing to bet that the AI lets at least one or two of the three explorers that the Portugese get between 1444 and 1446 die in port having explored nothing significant. So then why are they in the game if the AI can't effectively use them and they allow the human player to explore areas that the historical Portugese had no ability to explore?

The explorers work like this for the AI, one only goes out at a time, when that one reaches it destination and is on its way home, the next one sails. (ie before the other reaches port).

So they are all used to some degree.

My fundamental point, which you singularly fail to understand, is that I can explore the Indian Ocean and Brazil on the historical timeline, ___PLUS___ have explored the Caribbean and North America. Can you seriously argue that I shouldn't only be able to do one or the other?

yes you can achieve that as a human, no arguement there , especially with the later explorers that the portuguese have, but the AI does not go there unless stated in its AI file.

the AI needs all its current explorers, I think you fail to realise that apart from the areas it needs to explore, it needs to get there in a certain time in the game. the AI tendency is always slower in deciding on what to do.

Some times it will not send a explorer out on a long journey if no colony has been made.

Since you understand the AI better than I do please tell me just how far the AI manages to explore along the African coast by 1445, 1460 and 1470 so I can get a feel for how the AI manages things. Most all of my games have been as Portugal so I really don't know how well it does in the early game and I'd like to use your experience with the Portugese AI. How far does it get before Portugal gets Dias and da Gama?

I said to you, with my files its correct by date, with the current ones , they are out only because of the areas named and other minor adjustments.

when dias finishes his 1st run, I have discovered mozanbique, when da gama does his 1st run I have all of India.
note the port (by event) in mombasa helps in the second runs as these 2 explorers have a longer life span.

First I'll determine what will keep the human players on the historical timetable and then test that with the AI to figure out how much help it needs to match that. Then extend the playtest, etc.

do as you want, if you need my files, just email me.

I expect to need some assistance in modifying the AI files, can I count on you for this? And wasn't it you who suggested deleting the CAM area to prevent the AI from bogging down in Kribi, etc. ahistorically?

Jason

My first file for u
BPAI POR 1450

# preferred areas for expansion

region = { ECAtlanticSea "South East Atlantic" TagoSea "West Africa" }
area = { "Cape Verde" Senegal }

# % of the time we prefer to establish a tradingpost if both are good.
tradingpost = 50

# The amount of provinces we try to colonize at the same time
expansion = 5

# Bonus for areas to establish colonies adjacent to previous ones.
neighbour = 0

# Bonus/Penalty for establish colonies adjacent to other countries.
enemies = 0

# 100 = max trader rate, lesser means slower focus on sending a trader.
traders = 50

# 100 = Total monopolist, will refuse trade as much as possible.
monopoly = 0

# 100 = Total warmonger, 0 = absolute pacifist
war = 0
# yes = Nation fights to the death, no = Nation will try to get out of wars
ferocity = no

#if possible we WILL go counter reform
counterreform = no

#How important is it to gather troops close to base
base = 1.1
#How important is it to be as close to target position when gathering troops.
front = 4.0

#Evaluation factors for conquer plans
conquer =
{
# multiply enemy province value
enemy = 3.0
# multiplying supply factor
supply = 0.3
# factor for distance to not owner provinces
distance = 7.0
# factor for owned provines
owner = 5.0
# Multiplier for provinces not in supply.
notsupply = 15
# Multiplying the base constant for conquer.
base = 15
}

# Modifiers for garrison plans
garrison =
{
# low values keep troops stationed in low or no fortress provinces, high values keep troops near the largest fortress you have
fortress = 1.0
# low values don't acknowledge the strategic value of a province in deciding where to garrison, high values do
strategic = 3.0
# low values don't care if a province is big or small, high values do
size = 1.0
# low values don't care if a province has a good supply amount, high values do
supply = 2.0
# low values don't care if a province is occupied by you, high values do
war = 5.0
}

the 1440 I left as the original if this is a concern then use this


#============================================================#
# Colonization & Expansion #
#============================================================#
continent = { }
region = { TagoSea }
area = { "Cape Verde" }
expansion = 1
tradingpost = 90
neighbour = -5
enemies = 0

#============================================================#
# War & Combat #
#============================================================#
war = 60
ferocity = no
base = 1.1
front = 4.0
combat = { FEZ MOR }

#============================================================#
# Trade & Misc. #
#============================================================#
traders = 100
monopoly = 5
counterreform = no

#============================================================#
# Evaluation factors for conquer plans #
#============================================================#
conquer = {
enemy = 3.0
supply = 0.3
distance = 7.0
owner = 1.0
notsupply = 3.0
base = 4.0
}

#============================================================#
# Modifiers for garrison plans #
#============================================================#
garrison = {
fortress = 1.0
strategic = 3.0
size = 1.0
supply = 2.0
war = 5.0
}


the files are different in layout, due to the fact I use Lrd Elderon program with a new database which I amended.
 
Norrefeldt,
I think the problem is that there's too much too early and not enough in the 1490s. I believe that we can shorten/reduce the multitude of explorers in the 1440s while possibly strengthening those in the late 1480s and 1490s. I'm wondering about adding naval tech instead of explorers for some of those Henry's Captains events that activate most of those explorers. But I don't have a handle on how much would be enough.
My tentative thoughts are to tie one explorer for each new sea zone explored. Historically they'd discovered six sea zones by 1470 or so. This would be mean that each explorer can live no longer than one year at best to prevent him from exploring too much. With each explorer would be some naval tech, maybe 250 each or 1500 total by events. And maybe we need to boost the maneuver ratings of Dias and de Gama so they don't die off on long voyages. I did notice that Diogo Cao departed Lisbon summer of 1482 so we might examine changing his start date to 1 July 82 rather than 1 Jan 84. That might be useful, although he doesn't seem to have gotten past Walvis Bay which won't take 3 1/2 years!
I haven't quite settled on which explorer for each sea zone, but I should be able to make a suggestion sometime this weekend once I get AGCEEP reinstalled. I can't get it to load right now so I guess I modded it a bit too much :wacko:
I'm still pretty new at this sort of stuff, but it was damn frustrating when I didn't have Internet access these last couple of days!

Jason
 
sturmvogel said:
Toio,
Thank you, that will be quite helpful when I get to working on the AI. Are your files Macintosh or PC? I use a Mac so that may be a problem. But I think I may be able to convert line feeds/carriage returns so please send them to me at sturmvogel_66@sbcglobal.net.

Jason

files sent
 
want to add the following POR explorers to fill in the gaps for late explorations

Pero de Escolar
1485-1488
sent to discover the congo river and south to walvis bay


Francisco Serrao
1509-1513
sailed into and through Malacca and the Moluccas


ratings would be standard

ANy thoughts, else will place for submission in 10 days
 
Toio,
From my reading I though Diogo Cao explored those areas? Although I did find out that he left Lisboa on his first cruise in the summer of 1482 which is earlier than he's credited for in the game.

Jason
 
sturmvogel said:
Norrefeldt,
I think the problem is that there's too much too early and not enough in the 1490s. I believe that we can shorten/reduce the multitude of explorers in the 1440s while possibly strengthening those in the late 1480s and 1490s. I'm wondering about adding naval tech instead of explorers for some of those Henry's Captains events that activate most of those explorers. But I don't have a handle on how much would be enough.
My tentative thoughts are to tie one explorer for each new sea zone explored. Historically they'd discovered six sea zones by 1470 or so. This would be mean that each explorer can live no longer than one year at best to prevent him from exploring too much. With each explorer would be some naval tech, maybe 250 each or 1500 total by events. And maybe we need to boost the maneuver ratings of Dias and de Gama so they don't die off on long voyages. I did notice that Diogo Cao departed Lisbon summer of 1482 so we might examine changing his start date to 1 July 82 rather than 1 Jan 84. That might be useful, although he doesn't seem to have gotten past Walvis Bay which won't take 3 1/2 years!
I haven't quite settled on which explorer for each sea zone, but I should be able to make a suggestion sometime this weekend once I get AGCEEP reinstalled. I can't get it to load right now so I guess I modded it a bit too much :wacko:
I'm still pretty new at this sort of stuff, but it was damn frustrating when I didn't have Internet access these last couple of days!

Jason
I don't like lengthening explorers, unless they historically explorered longer...or atleast were at sea longer.
 
Jinnai said:
I don't like lengthening explorers, unless they historically explorered longer...or atleast were at sea longer.

I don't like this issue in regards to removal of explorers and it seems to me to be because humans can take advantage of it, There are many advantages that a human can take throught the entire EU2 game. I do not see why the AI has to suffer as it follows what is set in its AI file.

Maybe the answer is a separate explorers list for human only.

I have sent Norre and Pasha my files on POR , lets see what they think.

But, simplifying the number of AI files for exploring nations does not work especially Portugal as they have so much to travel.