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A Democratic Germany

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Do you think it would be possible to add a third option in the "Restoring the Monarchy" event to crown Oskar von Hindenburg the reigning monarch of Germany, instead of crowning Wilhelm III? I know it's not the most historically plausible thing, but it would be a nice option.
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I don't think so, if you like oskar von hindenburg so much then you can elect him for two 7-year terms as president. if your not statified after having him as head of state for 14 years (not to mention his dad as president for the previous 9 years!) then you could make a von hindenburg germany mod! :rofl:


One more thing on the democratic sliders. Why exactly is Germany at +10 anyway? Under the Weimar constitution (I'm going off Wikipedia here, so if I'm completely off tell me) the president could rule by decree if he wanted to without the Reichstag's consent (Article 48 of the Weimar constitution) and effectively anything (whether it was against the constitution or not) could be passed with a 2/3 majority. I'd actually set the German democracy slider at 7 or 8 initially, with all non-DNVP parties getting decisions to get rid of some of the less democratic parts of the constitution. I'd see the SPD taking the slider to 10, the Liberals going to either 9 or 10, and the DNVP staying at the current slider and subtracting one point if there's a Kaiser. If you want other parties could diminish the Kaiser's power if they're elected.
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A recent update changed DNVP to 8 for democratic because otherwise it was too easy to slip into dictatorship, which messed up all the events, as germany being democratic is a condition for most events in the mod (to prevent them firing when playing a normal game with nazi germany).
The reason the standard setting is 10 for democratic is becasue Weimar was extremaly democratic. Yes, there was article 48 but in Britain the queen has the power to overrule anything she likes but britain is still demcoratic. Furthermore, the electoral system in weimar was 100% proportional representation, so if you got 30% of the vote, you got 30% of the seats in the reichstag. The constituion was very liberal and in the 1920's germany was a very modern and progressive society. In reality, it could be argued that one of the problems with Weimar was that it was too democratic. In 1944 or 45 (i cant remember) there is an electoral reform bill that switches Germany to the additional member voting system that Germany actually uses now, which is less proportional and includes a 5% rule, which says no party that gets less than 5% of the vote is allowed any seats in parilament. for this reason, that event reduces the democratic value to 8. Hope that explains my thinking!
 
yayap said:
I don't think so, if you like oskar von hindenburg so much then you can elect him for two 7-year terms as president. if your not statified after having him as head of state for 14 years (not to mention his dad as president for the previous 9 years!) then you could make a von hindenburg germany mod! :rofl:
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That's fine, it was just an idea. Another thing I was thinking about is maybe you could make events based around the relationship between Wilhelm III and the Nazis lead by Hitler/Göring if the monarchy is restored before the Nazis take power. I don't see the Nazis being able to kick Wilhelm III out right after they take power, especially under Göring. Maybe even make events so Wilhelm III can actually stay as monarch during Nazi rule. It's a little more realistic than my last idea, I think.
 
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Vlad1917 said:
That's fine, it was just an idea. Another thing I was thinking about is maybe you could make events based around the relationship between Wilhelm III and the Nazis lead by Hitler/Göring if the monarchy is restored before the Nazis take power. I don't see the Nazis being able to kick Wilhelm III out right after they take power, especially under Göring. Maybe even make events so Wilhelm III can actually stay as monarch during Nazi rule. It's a little more realistic than my last idea, I think.
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Good idea. Perhaps Gorings' Nazi Party should actually be Facsist (like Mussolini's Fascists) and he should change its name to the Fascist Party of Germany, while
publicly declaring support for the monarchy. Or is that too ahistorical?
 
it068 said:
Good idea. Perhaps Gorings' Nazi Party should actually be Facsist (like Mussolini's Fascists) and he should change its name to the Fascist Party of Germany, while
publicly declaring support for the monarchy. Or is that too ahistorical?
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Göring supporting the monarchy isn't unrealistic, but changing the Nazi party to the Fascist party is a bit unrealistic, in my opinion.
 
yayap said:
A recent update changed DNVP to 8 for democratic because otherwise it was too easy to slip into dictatorship, which messed up all the events, as germany being democratic is a condition for most events in the mod (to prevent them firing when playing a normal game with nazi germany).
The reason the standard setting is 10 for democratic is becasue Weimar was extremaly democratic. Yes, there was article 48 but in Britain the queen has the power to overrule anything she likes but britain is still demcoratic. Furthermore, the electoral system in weimar was 100% proportional representation, so if you got 30% of the vote, you got 30% of the seats in the reichstag. The constituion was very liberal and in the 1920's germany was a very modern and progressive society. In reality, it could be argued that one of the problems with Weimar was that it was too democratic. In 1944 or 45 (i cant remember) there is an electoral reform bill that switches Germany to the additional member voting system that Germany actually uses now, which is less proportional and includes a 5% rule, which says no party that gets less than 5% of the vote is allowed any seats in parilament. for this reason, that event reduces the democratic value to 8. Hope that explains my thinking!
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Well, I still say Article 48 should get some representation just because, unlike the British monarch's power to veto everything, it was actually used relatively frequently. I understand the whole proportional representation thing, but honestly I don't think it should be taken into account THAT much. My reasoning being that the United States still has a 10, and the USA is effectively limited to two parties with no coalitions happening anywhere. Also, I may be wrong on this, but I also seem to recall Britain being at 9 democracy by default is some version of Darkest Hour. I may be wrong though. Like I said, I think it would be more reasonable to set the democracy slider to 8 by default, with the DNVP going to seven with the Kaiser and the rest of the parties abolishing Article 48 and making it impossible to repeal certain liberties which pushes everything to 10. After that, the new voting system COULD take a single point off, but I think it would be better as a dissent lowering flavor event that explains why you can’t get the same parties elected. Besides, having Germany sit at 10 all the time is boring :p. This is your mod though; do with it as you want.
 
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yayap said:
If the nazis get elected in 1941, goring will be head of government and if the monarchy has been restored, Wilhelm III will remain, so that works fine!
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What if Hitler is elected and the monarchy has been restored? Will there be an option for Wilhelm III to possibly be able to stay? Or will he get the boot?
 
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Vlad1917 said:
What if Hitler is elected and the monarchy has been restored? Will there be an option for Wilhelm III to possibly be able to stay? Or will he get the boot?
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There is no event that would have the kaiser removed if the nazis are elected in 1935 or 37 and hitler is head of government.
Well, I still say Article 48 should get some representation just because, unlike the British monarch's power to veto everything, it was actually used relatively frequently. I understand the whole proportional representation thing, but honestly I don't think it should be taken into account THAT much. My reasoning being that the United States still has a 10, and the USA is effectively limited to two parties with no coalitions happening anywhere. Also, I may be wrong on this, but I also seem to recall Britain being at 9 democracy by default is some version of Darkest Hour. I may be wrong though. Like I said, I think it would be more reasonable to set the democracy slider to 8 by default, with the DNVP going to seven with the Kaiser and the rest of the parties abolishing Article 48 and making it impossible to repeal certain liberties which pushes everything to 10. After that, the new voting system COULD take a single point off, but I think it would be better as a dissent lowering flavor event that explains why you can’t get the same parties elected. Besides, having Germany sit at 10 all the time is boring :p. This is your mod though; do with it as you want.
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i'll look into it
 
Vlad1917 said:
The Enabling Act event does.
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oh well, just dont pass the enabling act!

Anyway, yet another version, 1.46, which sets democratic value to 9 (hope that satisfies you airpirate!) and more importantly adds an event to go back to the old imperial flag. available from first page!
 
yayap said:
oh well, just dont pass the enabling act!

Anyway, yet another version, 1.46, which sets democratic value to 9 (hope that satisfies you airpirate!) and more importantly adds an event to go back to the old imperial flag. available from first page!
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NO I INSIST ON 8 :p (don't worry, I'm joking. I approve of this). My main point was really that getting rid of the president's potential emergency powers and the whole "anything goes with 2/3 majority" thing would provide some nice event fodder. Each could provide a nice slider move towards democratic and could be applied to the Kaiser (just make the event description head of state instead of president) as well. Though as long as there's SOMETHING about killing the president's/Kaiser's emergency powers (with the appropriate slider move), I'll be happy.
 
yayap said:
The "war!" event triggers a war between allies and soviet union, so when you side with soviets, this rightly shouldn't happen.


If you side with the soviets you dont leave the axis so that a normal style ww2 can happen, e.g. you can ally with italy. when you choose soviets, it is up to you when to DoW on poland, there is no event to cause it. i guess i could quickly add an event if you like.

you are correct, the only changes are in day of decision
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eep, well, you're not beholden to me or any of my concerns, but if you say so :p

but i will give the new version a shot some time soon. The trouble prior to this is that it's rather difficult for a fully or nearly fully democratic government to declare war unless the nation being attacked has a high belligerence (which poland will never have) or they've spent most of their slider moves to move toward interventionism (or authoritarianism, but that renders moot the idea of democratic germany, no? Not to mention slider changes in democratic-authoritarian are obliterated by most of the election options).

I might suggest event chains for the acquisition of german cores, in the future, that could possibly model escalation of diplomatic disputes. As it stands, it's pretty much just wait for the event to fire and boom my IC has shot up by 20-30. What if France/Italy/UK told Germany to bugger off over Austria/Sudetenland/Wherever (ala "lol you have 10 divisions what are you gonna do about it)? What if the allies took notice of the fact you've just enacted conscription and begun a military buildup despite reaffirming your adherence to Versailles? are they just going to sit there and let you do it, attach preconditions, or take action?
 
Great mod. Downloaded and played the first two years so far. Would play more, but my computer has a tendency to get "heated" with Darkest Hour. :p

Just out of curiosity, are there any events for a late Nazi Germany coming to power after Hitler's kicked out? I know that's not really the focus of the mod, but it would be interesting to see what Goering would do differently.
 
Great mod, very balanced and interesting.

However, I´m still having the "War!" event when the USSR dows Poland. Tried to repeat from console and also reloading the "pick a side event": relation modifiers work, but i do not change my alliance and later get involved in war against USSR.

Oh, and if you need any help with Spanish events, count me in!
 
nachopontmercy said:
Great mod, very balanced and interesting.

However, I´m still having the "War!" event when the USSR dows Poland. Tried to repeat from console and also reloading the "pick a side event": relation modifiers work, but i do not change my alliance and later get involved in war against USSR.

Oh, and if you need any help with Spanish events, count me in!
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Are you sure you are using the latest version, becasue siding with the soviets definately sleeps the event where USSR declares war on Poland. Now there is a "war!" event where germany declares war on poland if you pick the soviet path, although you do stay in the axis and don't get a full alliance with the russians, as war with ussr will come later on!

Also, thanks for the offer with spanish events, may look into that in the future and if so, will contact you!
 
I was going to suggest, as a minor thing that can be added later, those generals (the SS ones) should i reckon be slept and woken if the Nazi's come to power, if not then they stay slept if that makes sense. I also think that the waking of the Austrian generals in the event of an anschluss should be included in the plebiscite event, just like in the normal cycle of events in vanilla DH.

Besides this minor issue, an excellent mod.
 
Hi! Just want to say this is a very interesting mod! Well done!
I thought that could be nice if you can implement a sort of german civil war in the time between the choice for a dmocracy and the outbreak of WW2...
...for example: in 1937 a democratic party win the election, then the nazi party (still strong supported by the people) try a coup d'etat... i remind you that the nazi party had a lot of militants (SA) and the regular army is not so much strong at this time, so I think that could be easy the outbreak of a civil war in the democratic germany! And while the nazis and the army are fighting each other, the comunist party rise up too to take the power! :) What do you think?
 
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