I got about a dozen messages about that division's supply problems, even before the lines were cut.
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I got about a dozen messages about that division's supply problems, even before the lines were cut.
Stalingrad be Finnish for an eternity.
And it seems that those troops are cut off from supplies, how well do they fare without them´?
Götterdämmerung is not hard.
And it seems that those troops are cut off from supplies, how well do they fare without them´?
Götterdämmerung is not hard.
It would help, if Soviets had actually opposed it. Non-fuel using deep attack should be possible, if there is no-one opposing the attack, IMO.
Sure, messages are nice thing, but how it affected it really? Have it stoped moving? Lost STR/ORG? I mean, I just don't see much of the logistics effect here.
No, it's shouldn't. Because with so many provinces around, you can easily fight your war without the battles, just running around the enemy and ignoring all logistics problems.
Being far from bases should slow you down and cause marching losses. Simply as that.
And if logistics only limits combat effectiveness, it's pretty bad, since it allows you to freely move around enemy territory until you meet the enemy and even then you can still outmaneuvre them.
So far it seems logistics penalties system feel to lenient on that matter. I just hope it's different in full release.
One would think the Hungarians should have surrendered to USSR, not UK. Maybe that will be fixed.
Even in WW2 small forces, especially a cavalry division could live off of the land, capturing supplies as it went. As long as it was not in any battles I don't see major attrition or supply losses happening. Partisans would eventually close that line of communication or active Soviet forces would. I am curious what the nature of those supply messages were.
Of course there would be mayor attrition.
"Living off the land" basically means that you send your forces to find food for themselves and their mounts at the expense of the combat movement. It slows down your units considerably (loss of movement speed), reducess their readiness (loss of ORG) and of course, make good part of the division not ready to fight (loss of STR), as it's not present where it should be. Additionally, in case of any mechanized equipment (which is present not just in mech/mot/armoured troops, but pretty much every WWII unit) rate of attrition is even higher. Of course over time those losses will be gone (as forager parties and broken down vehicles will catch up at some point), but over the long trip, those losses really mount up and at some point simply stop whole combat movement.
On the top of that, in real situation you would have to leave people behind to keep some basic order on the occupied provinces along the supply line. As the supply line gets longer, the more soldiers get involved in keeping it up, especially if we are talking about 30 km wide corridor running hundreds km deep into the enemy territory. It shouldn't (and in reality, it never would) require whole brigade of regular or partisan troops to cut the line off. On the unguarded supply line, bunch of marauders would do the thing just as well.
But the controller of the province actually matters very little. Think about it, you have a province line and at the end there is a division. Now if there are no enemy divisions around, what is there to stop the supply trucks from taking a route that is still under enemy controll on the map, but practically empty?
You can see in the finnish AAR that there are a few red zones in middle of finnish controlled area that are still soviets provinces, but would you say that they have any controll over them? Of course you have to take in account the amount of people living in the area, and perhaps forming enough partisan activity to disrupt the supplies.
Anyhow this wouldn't work in the game because there are too many factors to this, but IRL I think it would work.
Just because you CAN do it doesn't mean it's broken. The first battle that cavalry division gets in will decimate it's fighting capacity. There goes 6000 men with no real gains.
I won't go to deep in discussing province control system of HoI3 because it wasn't really main issue there (I'm willing to accept it for the sake of simplicity).
But let's go back to the logistics. Whole point of the logistics system in HoI3 was ensuring that such raids won't happen. If some minor country (pardon all the Finns, but I'm just making the point) is capable to move its troops thousand km's deep into the territory of far bigger opponent, control this territory and still logistically support deep (another thousand km or more) raid of cavalry division that practically reaches Caspian Sea... that means that at least in this beta version logistics system fails its purpose.
I'm not talking about combat at all. That's not the point. I'm talking about logistics that simply at some point should force Finish Army to stop in its tracks, and even more should not allow unit to travers whole Soviet Union from north to south without expanding supply routes on the way (like taking over more provinces around, instead of 1-1-...-1 string to the Stalingrad).
Is this a problem with your beta version or does this work as intended. Seems pretty strange to me that you cannot use railroads of your allies. You could use the railroads of your allies in HoI2!
Nice,,nice,,nice 
Btw,i know,its detail,but why is in Slovakia(after 38 in Hungary)-Rimavska Sobota and Velky Krtis? Lucenec was much biggest city -population, industry and impotrance too...and lucenec is even in hoi1...
Btw,i know,its detail,but why is in Slovakia(after 38 in Hungary)-Rimavska Sobota and Velky Krtis? Lucenec was much biggest city -population, industry and impotrance too...and lucenec is even in hoi1...
I don't think you could strategically redeploy to allied territory in HOI2 either.
Thanks for AAR, it has been most interesting. I know it is beta (and if I missed the answer to that in an earlier post, please accept my oppologies), but there are 2 things worrying me
- Supply chain (already put forward): the new rules will probably be very good at slowing a "fighting" (vs. overun of non defended provinces) in depth invasion of a country
- AI: the SU seemed to have been blindly focused on the classical Eastern front (block the Germans, try to kill the weaker allies) and completly missed the point on what was important (defend the heartland, especially against a single rampaging cavalry division); the Germans failed to go to the defense of their weaker central European allies (which IIRC they did in 44)
BTW, despite some problems with the AI, I still very much enjoyed HOI2 and will be buying HOI3 (techs, graphics and other improvements I read make me wait impatiently)
- Supply chain (already put forward): the new rules will probably be very good at slowing a "fighting" (vs. overun of non defended provinces) in depth invasion of a country
- AI: the SU seemed to have been blindly focused on the classical Eastern front (block the Germans, try to kill the weaker allies) and completly missed the point on what was important (defend the heartland, especially against a single rampaging cavalry division); the Germans failed to go to the defense of their weaker central European allies (which IIRC they did in 44)
BTW, despite some problems with the AI, I still very much enjoyed HOI2 and will be buying HOI3 (techs, graphics and other improvements I read make me wait impatiently)
Those are only the minor new additions to HOI3. What to think about a map which tripled or quadripled in size? More units and being able to modify them. A real hierarchy, being able tolet the AI perform certain tasks for you you don't like to yourself. A very good tactical AI (hope the strategic will be as good)....and lots more.
You pretty much described the entire concept of Blitzkrieg here. The spearhead panzer divisions were supposed to be able to be cut off and still move on their own without logistics behind the enemy lines while outmanoeuvring them. Should work great for the first week until fuel is gone and after that less so.
In HoI2 ALL units regardless of type moved at the minimum possible speed when their supplies or fuel was out, so I don't think you need to worry. This is a concept Im sure they kept.
Gotterdamerung ‘44
Chapter one: OMG, where to start?
Chapter one: OMG, where to start?
Europe, summer of 1944. The third Reich is assailed from three directions. It’s frontline is gradually pushed back in Italy, Normandy and on the Eastern front. If not for a firm stance, a miracle or a coup Germany will be lost, her forces shattered and the enemy converging upon the Fatherland from East, South and West.
Rastenburg, the German HQ, is like an anthill, crawling with activity. Generals arrive every hour to discuss the situation; general staff officers judge the incoming situation and device tactics to be used on a local level. Alas, because still the mad ant-queen rules them all and dictates his blurred vision of victory, useless, stubborn strategies, he thinks he is the GROFAZ his Third Reich needs to prevail in this perilous situation.
The numbers are not on the German side either. Losses incurred during the last months have seriously dwindled the quality and quantity of divisions while those of the enemy only grew in size and experience. At the moment the Germans can field roughly 300 divisions on all three fronts, some thirty of those being armoured formations.
Staggering amounts considering Germanys enemies are able to field almost 700 divisions against her. Only in the field of armoured formations are the Germans able to equalize this number. But, although they employ panzers which are more powerful they have considerable less then their enemy.
Staggering amounts considering Germanys enemies are able to field almost 700 divisions against her. Only in the field of armoured formations are the Germans able to equalize this number. But, although they employ panzers which are more powerful they have considerable less then their enemy.
The big question thus is; how will Germany be able to stand and prevail over the forces arrayed against her?
It is on this day as well a report from the German diplomat to Japan reaches the headquarters through the ministry. Like the Germans their Japanese allies are pushed back gradually on the other side of the globe.
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Hooray! But don't you think it'd be the time to start a new thread after all?
No way!. Just check the first post for the index, which you will need anyways due to the large number of comments and discussions.
