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also remove negative sign from desertion command

france event 170142..............option b
 
Toio said:
maybe not a bug

but has the religious settings been ammended recently, because I now get weird alliances in all games
like

MLO, MAN, GEN and Kharasan

ARG , corsica and tunisia

granted these are not consistent for game after game, but isn't there a parameter where these weird alliances can be much harder to evolve?

the latest I have which seems regular (most games) and causes OE to "freeze" is , after 1444
HUN join BYZ, SPR and KNI,.............
Only reduced tech modifier for Shiites and +0.5 diplomats per year for Sunnis and Shiites.

HUN possibly joining BYZ, SPR and KNI is another problem.
 
Toio said:
maybe not a bug

but has the religious settings been ammended recently, because I now get weird alliances in all games
like

MLO, MAN, GEN and Kharasan

ARG , corsica and tunisia

granted these are not consistent for game after game, but isn't there a parameter where these weird alliances can be much harder to evolve?

the latest I have which seems regular (most games) and causes OE to "freeze" is , after 1444
HUN join BYZ, SPR and KNI,.............

It should already be harder because the relations with countries of different religion detoriate depending on how you set your religious tolerance sliders. Does MLO/MAN/GEN tolerate muslims?
 
Actually I bet alliances (like with Khorasan or Balkh) happen because when those states come into existence they have deplorable relations with the states near them. In turn then, they must seek alliances elsewhere. What we could do is cut down on Central Asia's knowledge of Europe. AFAIK, the Timurid region has knowledge of Spain & Italy / part of France. We could curb it to somewhere in the Balkans area.
 







my latest game.
note:
used dalmatian culture events
used my new TUR tweaks
used new MAM AI

Issue is that bavaria seems to war the hussites more often now and what you see in above maps in blue is a bavaria that completely annexed the hussites. They also annexed PFA but PFA broke free a few years later.

also note that the TUR always by pass, athens and morea now, first map has HUN owning athens

also note TUR fighting MAM naturally, all conquests where done without events

Also , venice retains its borders with dalmatian culture included, so no extra aggressiveness is seen





above, highwater mark for the TUR in europe , after this austria started to drive the TUR back slowly.
note, I switched to HEL as my prussia was eliminated :D

Venice took athens from HUN and SIE formed, venice also lost cyprus to TUR after a lost war



above, austria pushing the TUR back, and Bavaria is very aggressive especially with alliance with POL who has entered northern germany
 
Last edited:
Garbon said:
I'm not seeing the bug. :p

Oh well, need to keep an eye on bavaria then in future.

what about passage fro TUR through ATH , can this be eliminated via event? or should we remove it from game start to see if TUR dows ATH earlier

also your safvids formed well
 
Garbon said:
Actually I bet alliances (like with Khorasan or Balkh) happen because when those states come into existence they have deplorable relations with the states near them. In turn then, they must seek alliances elsewhere. What we could do is cut down on Central Asia's knowledge of Europe. AFAIK, the Timurid region has knowledge of Spain & Italy / part of France. We could curb it to somewhere in the Balkans area.

can we test?
 
Toio said:
can we test?

Would make sense. I'd always wanted to cut down on their know provinces, considering that Europe doesn't start with knowledge of Central Asia, but I never pushed for it because I didn't see how it was worth the effort. This could be a good reason though.
 
Toio said:
Issue is that bavaria seems to war the hussites more often now and what you see in above maps in blue is a bavaria that completely annexed the hussites. They also annexed PFA but PFA broke free a few years later.
Only CoA was changed for Bavaria... It seems to be an exception to me.

Toio said:
also note that the TUR always by pass, athens and morea now, first map has HUN owning athens
Not true in my tests. Quite the opposite.


Garbon said:
Would make sense. I'd always wanted to cut down on their know provinces, considering that Europe doesn't start with knowledge of Central Asia, but I never pushed for it because I didn't see how it was worth the effort. This could be a good reason though.
Just a quick screenshot from 1419 with provinces to be removed for Timurids?

Other countries to be involved in such change?
 
Bug in this event:
Code:
#Cleves
#simplified version
event = {
	id = 5000019
	trigger = {
		ai = yes
		OR = {
			emperor = yes
			elector = yes
		}
		atwar = no
		NOT = { exists = KLE }
		NOT = { core = { province = 334 data = -1 } } #Münster
		[COLOR=Red]NOT = {
			AND = {
				exists = MUN
				event = 235009 #MUN: Union with Kleve-Mark
				NOT = { year = 1609 }
			}
		}[/COLOR]
		[COLOR=Yellow]NOT = {
			OR = {
				AND = {
					exists = MUN
					event = 235009 #MUN: Union with Kleve-Mark
				}
				year = 1609
			}
		}[/COLOR]
	}
	random = yes
	province = 334 #Münster
	name = "AI_EVENT"
	desc = "Cleves"

	action_a = {
		name = "OK"
		command = { type = independence which = KLE }
	}
}
To be modified in all duplicated events for HRE integrity.
 
Wrong tag in this event:
Code:
#(1584-1610) The heart of the Catholic League
event = {
	id = 172011
	trigger = {
		owned = { province = 376 data = -1 } #Champagne
		control = { province = 376 data = -1 } #Champagne
		NOT = {
			flag = [Reims]
			flag = [Paris]
		}
	}
	random = no
	country = [COLOR=Red]FPR[/COLOR][COLOR=Yellow]FUC[/COLOR]
	name = "EVENTNAME172011" #The heart of the Catholic League
	desc = "EVENTHIST172011"
	#-#

	date = { day = 11 month = june year = 1584 }
	offset = 5
	deathdate = { day = 1 month = january year = 1610 }

	action_a = {
		name = "GOOD"
		command = { type = capital which = 376 } #Champagne
		command = { type = setflag which = [Reims] }
		command = { }
	}
}
#-#The House of Guise, led by François, defeated the Huguenots at the battle of Dreux, but he was assassinated shortly afterward, in 1563. His son, Henri de Lorraine, became the third Duke of Guise (1550-1588) was responsible for the formation of the Catholic League.
 
Bug in the formation of Kingdom of Italy with Milan:
Code:
#(1535) The Fate of the Duchy -II-
#by Bordic
#graphics by kolmy from GRT
event = {
	id = 228031
	trigger = {
		ai = no
		OR = {
			event = 179074 #HAB: The lapsed fief of Milan
			event = 285222 #SPA: The lapsed fief of Milan
		}
		exists = FRA
		exists = SPA
	}
	random = no
	country = MLO
	name = "EVENTNAME228031" #The Fate of the Duchy
	desc = "EVENTHIST228031"
	#-#

	date = { day = 0 month = November year = 1535 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME228031A" #We accept our Emperor's will (End Game)
		command = { type = independence which = MAN }
		command = { type = independence which = VEN }
		command = { type = independence which = PAM }
		command = { type = independence which = TOS }
		command = { type = independence which = PAP }
		command = { type = independence which = GEN }
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = HAB value = 371 } #Tyrol
		#if HEL doesn't exist, it'll be released
		command = { type = independence which = HEL }
		#if HEL exists, it'll receive all its core provinces
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = HEL value = 388 } #Bern
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = HEL value = 1612} #Schwyz
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SPA value = 398 } #Corsica
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SPA value = 392 } #Marche
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SPA value = 402 } #Emilia
		command = { type = secedeprovince which = SPA value = 400 } #Siena
		command = { type = trigger which = 285108 } #SPA: The Reversion of Milan
		command = { type = trigger which = 170049 } #FRA: The Habsburgs in Milan
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 170050 } #FRA: A French dynasty in Milan
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME228031B" #Support the Visconti-Orléans dynasty
		command = { type = flagname which = "Orleans" } #quartered Orléans/Milan
		[COLOR=Yellow]command = { type = setflag which = [Visconti-Orleans] }[/COLOR]
		command = { type = breakvassal which = HAB }
		command = { type = breakvassal which = SPA }
		command = { type = breakvassal which = HEL }
		command = { type = breakvassal which = VEN }
		command = { type = revoltrisk which = 24 value = 3 } #Ghibellines
		command = { type = revolt which = 389 } #Lombardia
		command = { type = relation which = SPA value = -100 }
		command = { type = sleepmonarch which = 089008 } #Milan City Council
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 089015 } #Francesco III 1535-1540
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 089016 } #Carlo I 1540-1545
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 089017 } #Valois Regency 1545-1549
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 089018 } #Luigi II 1549-1550
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 089019 } #Carlo II Massimiliano 1550-1560
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 089020 } #Enrico Alessandro 1560-1574
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 089021 } #Valois Regency 1574-1589
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 089022 } #Bourbon Regency 1589-1626
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 089023 } #Gastone Giambattista 1626-1660
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 089024 } #Filippo II 1660-1701
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 089025 } #Filippo III 1701-1723
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 089026 } #Luigi III 1723-1752
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 089027 } #Luigi Filippo I 1752-1785
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 089028 } #Luigi Filippo II 1785-1793
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 089029 } #Luigi Filippo III, King of France in 1830
		command = { type = trigger which = 285109 } #SPA: Milan defies the Empire
	}
}
#-#In 1530 during the congress of Bologna Pope Clement VII consecrated Charles V Holy Roman Emperor and convinced him to forgive the misbehaviour of Francesco II Sforza who joined the League of Cognac, as the Pope himself did. The Pope managed to have the Emperor grant Sforza the ducal title on the throne of Milan again, but under the firm condition that, on Sforza's death, the Duchy would have returned definitely to the Empire. A marriage was also agreed between Sforza and Charles V's niece Christine of Denmark. On 2 November 1535 Duke Francesco II died childless and, according to previous agreements made during the Congress of Bologna in 1530, the Duchy of Milan reverted to the Empire. As suzerain of those fiefs, Charles V had it administrated by means of life-governors whom he himself appointed. The Emperor's decision strongly displeased François Ier of France, whose younger son Charles, in possession of the title of Duke of Orléans and thus with dynastical claims to the Milanese throne, had his candidature rejected, in spite of his assurances of allegiance to the Empire.

Code:
#(1535) The Fate of the Duchy -III- (SPA or HAB not emperors)
#by Bordic
#graphics by kolmy from GRT
event = {
	id = 228047
	trigger = {
		exists = FRA
		NOT = {
			event = 228046 #MLO: The Fate of the Duchy -I-
			event = 228031 #MLO: The Fate of the Duchy -II-
		}
	}
	random = no
	country = MLO
	name = "EVENTNAME228031" #The Fate of the Duchy
	desc = "EVENTHIST228047"
	#-#

	date = { day = 1 month = November year = 1535 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME228047A" #The Visconti-Orléans dynasty has claims
		command = { type = flagname which = "Orleans" } #quartered Orléans/Milan
		[COLOR=Yellow]command = { type = setflag which = [Visconti-Orleans] }[/COLOR]
		command = { type = breakvassal which = HAB }
		command = { type = breakvassal which = SPA }
		command = { type = breakvassal which = HEL }
		command = { type = breakvassal which = VEN }
		command = { type = stability value = 2 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 402 } #Emilia (Parma in new map)
		command = { type = relation which = PAP value = -50 }
		command = { type = sleepmonarch which = 089008 } #Milan City Council
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 089015 } #Francesco III 1535-1540
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 089016 } #Carlo I 1540-1545
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 089017 } #Valois Regency 1545-1549
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 089018 } #Luigi II 1549-1550
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 089019 } #Carlo II Massimiliano 1550-1560
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 089020 } #Enrico Alessandro 1560-1574
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 089021 } #Valois Regency 1574-1589
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 089022 } #Bourbon Regency 1589-1626
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 089023 } #Gastone Giambattista 1626-1660
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 089024 } #Filippo II 1660-1701
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 089025 } #Filippo III 1701-1723
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 089026 } #Luigi III 1723-1752
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 089027 } #Luigi Filippo I 1752-1785
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 089028 } #Luigi Filippo II 1785-1793
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 089029 } #Luigi Filippo III, King of France in 1830
	}
	action_b = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME228047B" #Let's apply for self-determination
		command = { type = stability value = -1 }
		command = { type = cash value = -100 }
		command = { type = addcore which = 402 } #Emilia (Parma in new map)
		command = { type = relation which = PAP value = 50 }
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 170165 } #FRA: A French dynasty in Milan
	}
}
#-#On 2 November 1535 duke Francesco II died childless. At those times, the only dynasty having valid claims to legitimately rule over the duchy of Milan was the French House of Orléans, which last member, Louis XII, also king of France, had previously bequeathed his Orléanais inheritance to the husband of his daughter Claude, François of the House of Valois-Angouleme, also known as François Ier king of France. The claims to the duchy of Milan dated back to Bianca Visconti, king Louis XII's grandmother and sister of Filippo Maria Visconti, the last duke of Milan of his dynasty. Because of this inheritance, François Ier and his sons could consider themselves as the only legitimate candidates to rule over the imperial duchy. Also Pope Paulus III of the Farnese family was aiming at the imperial administration over Milan and Parma to be assigned by the emperor to his illegitimate son Pier Luigi.

Code:
#(1419-1820) Sets the monarchs to the Milanese monarchs (House of Savoy after 1535)
event = {
	id = 193002 #triggered by MLO_228012 / MLO_228013
	trigger = {
		[COLOR=Red]NOT = { event = 285109 } #SPA: Milan defies the Empire[/COLOR]
		[COLOR=Yellow]NOT = { flag = [Visconti-Orleans] }[/COLOR]
	}
	random = no
	country = ITA
	name = "EVENTNAME193002" #Italian leaders
	desc = "EVENTHIST193002"
	#-#

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME193002A" #Our new leaders!
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064560 } #Filippo Maria
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064561 } #Francesco Sforza
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064562 } #Galeazzo Maria Sforza
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064563 } #Gian Galeazzo Sforza
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064564 } #Ludovico il Moro
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064565 } #Ercole Massimiliano
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064566 } #Francesco II
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064567 } #Charles III le Bon
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064568 } #Emmanuel-Philibert
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064569 } #Charles Emmanuel Ier
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064570 } #Victor Amédée Ier
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064571 } #François-Hyacinthe
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064572 } #Charles Emmanuel II
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064573 } #Vittorio Amedeo II
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064574 } #Carlo Emanuele III
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064575 } #Vittorio Amedeo III
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064576 } #Carlo Emanuele IV
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064577 } #Vittorio Emanuele I
		#command = { type = AI which = Italy.ai }
	}
}
#(1419-1820) Sets the monarchs to the Milanese monarchs (House of Visconti-Orléans after 1535)
event = {
	id = 193061 #triggered by MLO_228012 / MLO_228013
	trigger = {
		[COLOR=Red]event = 285109 #SPA: Milan defies the Empire[/COLOR]
		[COLOR=Yellow]flag = [Visconti-Orleans][/COLOR]
	}
	random = no
	country = ITA
	name = "EVENTNAME193002" #Italian leaders
	desc = "EVENTHIST193002"
	#-#

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME193002A" #Our new leaders!
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064560 } #Filippo Maria
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064561 } #Francesco Sforza
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064562 } #Galeazzo Maria Sforza
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064563 } #Gian Galeazzo Sforza
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064564 } #Ludovico il Moro
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064565 } #Ercole Massimiliano
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064566 } #Francesco II
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064609 } #Francesco III 1535-1540
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064610 } #Carlo I 1540-1545
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064611 } #Valois Regency 1545-1549
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064612 } #Luigi II 1549-1550
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064613 } #Carlo II Massimiliano 1550-1560
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064614 } #Enrico Alessandro 1560-1574
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064615 } #Valois Regency 1574-1589
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064616 } #Bourbon Regency 1589-1626
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064617 } #Gastone Giambattista 1626-1660
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064618 } #Filippo II 1660-1701
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064619 } #Filippo III 1701-1723
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064620 } #Luigi III 1723-1752
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064621 } #Luigi Filippo I 1752-1785
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064622 } #Luigi Filippo II 1785-1793
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 064623 } #Luigi Filippo III, King of France in 1830
		#No longer Savoyard Kings of Italy
		command = { type = sleepevent which = 193051 } #ITA: A new King for Italy
	}
}
#-#We will get the services of additional leaders and our monarchs will rule Italy, with Milan as our capital.
 
Leftover of submission #941 about Portuguese leaders:
Code:
historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0110836 }
	category = explorer
	[COLOR=Red]name = "A. Ca' da Mosto" #Alvide da Ca' da Mosto[/COLOR]
	[COLOR=Yellow]name = "Alvise da Mosto" #Alvise da(of) Ca'(house) da(of) Mosto[/COLOR]
	startdate = {
		day = 21
		month = march
		year = 1455
	}
	deathdate = {
		year = 1460
	}
	rank = 6
	movement = 2
	fire = 1
	shock = 1
	siege = 0
	dormant = yes
}
historicalleader = {
	id = { type = 6 id = 0110804 }
	category = explorer
	name = "Fernão do Pó"
	startdate = {
		year = 1469
	}
	deathdate = {
		year = [COLOR=Red]1473[/COLOR][COLOR=Yellow]1474[/COLOR]
	}
	rank = 10
	movement = 3
	fire = 1
	shock = 1
	siege = 0
	dormant = yes
	remark = "Discovered the island and explored Gulf of Guinea."
}
 
hussites wars, before 1425

ROM becomes vassals of SIL before 1425, which leads to break of ROM alliance with HUN and HAB.

ROM immediately DOW SIL again, (by itself,) gets stab of -3 and without alliance is eliminated from map.

I cannot find how this occurs, but it makes no sense to become a vassal of SIL


but, this is the DOW event

#(1419-1436) Unacceptable Peace Treaty - Ahistorical
event = {
id = 398015
trigger = {
vassal = { country = SIL country = ROM }
war = { country = SIL country = HUN }
countrysize = 3
}
random = no
country = ROM
name = "EVENTNAME398015" #Unacceptable Peace Treaty
desc = "EVENTHIST398015"
#-#Forced peace with Hussites was unacceptable. With the help of Hungarians, Romanists continue the fight.

date = { day = 18 month = august year = 1419 }
offset = 1
deathdate = { day = 4 month = july year = 1436 }

action_a = {
name = "ACTIONNAME401013B" #We will never give in!
command = { type = breakvassal which = SIL }
command = { type = stability value = 3 }
command = { type = INF which = -1 value = 8000 }
command = { type = alliance which = HUN } #if possible
command = { type = war which = SIL }
}
}

where countrysize should be 3 instead of 2
 
No, 2 is only to avoid monoprovincial Romanists going to war and being annexed by Hussites. Hussites can win a war against Romanists and make them vassal (for any reason before and as safety condition). Remember Romanists and Hungary have the same monarch.

The goal of these events is seing war between Hussites and Romanists as long as possible until 1436 (and historical failure of the Hussites) but without Romanists in danger of annexation because of the events and victorious Hussites in the end (i.e. no Bohemia or Hussite Bohemia).
 
Last edited:
Not needed command:
Code:
#(1649) The Commonwealth of England
#Edited by Johnny Canuck and mandead
event = {
	id = 3026
	trigger = {
		event = 3025 #ENG: The English Civil War
	}
	random = no
	country = ENG
	name = "EVENTNAME3026" #The Commonwealth of England
	desc = "EVENTHIST3026"
	#-#

	date = { day = 0 month = february year = 1649 }

	action_a = {
		name = "ACTIONNAME3026A" #Sign it!
		command = { type = inherit which = ROY }
		command = { type = flagname which = "Commonwealth" }
		command = { type = provinceculture which = 243 value = anglosaxon } #Wales
		[COLOR=Red]command = { type = wakemonarch which = 046030 } #Interregnum[/COLOR]
		command = { type = wakemonarch which = 046031 } #Council of State
		command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 233 value = -5 } #Meath
		command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 234 value = -5 } #Leinster
		command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 250 value = -5 } #Cornwall
		command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 246 value = -5 } #Bristol
		command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 243 value = -5 } #Wales
		command = { type = province_revoltrisk which = 240 value = -5 } #Northumberland
		command = { type = domestic which = CENTRALIZATION value = -4 }
		command = { type = domestic which = ARISTOCRACY value = -5 }
		command = { type = domestic which = INNOVATIVE value = 3 }
		command = { type = domestic which = OFFENSIVE value = 2 }
		command = { type = stability value = 2 }
	}
}
#-#Be it declared and enacted by this present Parliament and by the Authoritie of the same That the People of England and of all the Dominions and Territoryes thereunto belonging are and shall be and are hereby constituted, made, established, and confirmed to be a Commonwealth and free State And shall from henceforth be Governed as a Commonwealth and Free State by the supreame Authoritie of this Nation, the Representatives of the People in Parliament and by such as they shall appoint and constitute as Officers and Ministers under them for the good of the People and that without any King or House of Lords.

Interregnum is already woken the day before in this case (ENG_164045 "The Execution of King Charles") and History looks like:
name = "January 30, 1649 : Interregnum rose to the throne in England."
name = "February 1, 1649 : England had The Commonwealth of England."
name = "February 1, 1649 : Interregnum rose to the throne in England."
Same Interregnum (046030) twice...
 
YodaMaster said:
No, 2 is only to avoid monoprovincial Romanists going to war and being annexed by Hussites. Hussites can win a war against Romanists and make them vassal (for any reason before and as safety condition). Remember Romanists and Hungary have the same monarch.

The goal of these events is seing war between Hussites and Romanists as long as possible until 1436 (and historical failure of the Hussites) but without Romanists in danger of annexation because of the events and victorious Hussites in the end (i.e. no Bohemia or Hussite Bohemia).

being a vassal of hussites, which means a break of the alliance with HAB and HUN means doom for ROM

I agree with the goal is their a way to make ROM get back into a alliance with HUN ?
 
Toio said:
being a vassal of hussites, which means a break of the alliance with HAB and HUN means doom for ROM

I agree with the goal is their a way to make ROM get back into a alliance with HUN ?
Since ROM will have at least two provinces, one war is affordable. Hungary will be at war too against SIL. Alliance command is included but war will be separate.

Better discuss this in Hussite Wars thread. There is no bug involved here.