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[unmerged(416312)]

In general, i think you have a misconception about cores in Hears of Iron: They are defined as areas which share culture, ethnology and language. While this definition very well applies to European Greece, Istanbul as well as some coastal parts of minor asia until into the 1920s, it does not apply to the rest of what you stated above. Maybe you are speaking the truth about a common idea about the foundation of some "New Rome" by the named nations. However, but each nation would have created that "New Rome" in their own shape. Each might have formed that new/old nation, but their individual cultural identity would have remained.

A nation doesn't magically form some non-existent uniform union of consisting of completely different cultures which only share one hypothetical (political) ideal, which 95% of all people don't even care about, as it's all about the ruling upper class.


This comparison is completely illogical. You are talking about a union of states sharing a simularity and a national heritage and comparing that to a completely inhomogenous area shared by cultural and national groups hostile to eachother.


Woa, what a threat! You obviously are an expert, as everyone else in this thread agrees with you


True. Greece had at least a little bit of industry. It still makes no sense on continental or global scale.


:blush:


You are talking about him: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgios_Papanikolaou ?

He sure was a good doctor, but I guess 75% of all people have never heard about him. Especially those who are not into medicine.

Still, according to your extensive knowledge, he obviously dwarfs Einstein, Heisenberg and all the others. They just copied his works and re-released them.


Yea, that might be true, before the romans took over southern italy and sicily.


This was most likely also true, but not in the medieval times, but when the romans had taken over the City-States. At least after 500AD this was definitely no longer the case. Whatever you base your numbers on, they are obviously flawed. Check with the Italian Censuses of the early 20th and late 19th century.

i cant understand where exacly is ur problem, as u saw in the event u can choose what areas u want to be national, take a look at the photo of the event in page 9, u may dissagree with me and i may dissagre with u, is there a reason for this converstion if we cant find common groud??

here is my anwer to what u say
greeks, serbians, italians and armenians were(and are) very very friendly(and for the italians we use to say ,one face one race[una faccia una razza]
with bulgarians there were some tensions in the years before but if u take account that in the mod the megali idea succed bulgarians would become a very small state and would like to become powerful again ,egyptians and arabians can be easily integrated by a powerful byzantium

and u say different cultures, do we have different culture?serbia bulgaria and italy are all affected by ancient greece and also the formem byzantine empire and all of us had and have the same style of life, ok the arab and egyptians may have some differences ,so integration
.
and in the medieval times south italy was full of greeks, accept it or not thats the reality

and before talking about greeks or any other civ please know a bit things about it ,here is a video about foreigners opinions about greece
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dohLcXQGRJM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTIT5RZd1kY&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6QNisKeCJE&feature=relmfu

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xgyPgcTFRA&feature=relmfu


to close this matter byzantium restoration is an ALTERNATIVE and we can only make HYPOTHESIS about it so we will never know what would be done in this occasion, so please stop or this crazyness and let the modder do whatever he wants.

i just gave an idea which could be fun and for the simple reason if some provices should be national or not we wrote 4 pages on this forum
everyone please relax:happy:

 

[unmerged(398952)]

ok u seem to have some psychological problems, for u some game proposals mean that someone is ultra-nationalist and fascist.
to explain it ,once again,
byzantine empire will be a union of those nations not a greek state, i just sayed that greece and greeks will be the basis, imagine a union like the usa(conederacy i think it is said)

That's like saying the UK should be cores of the USA because they also speak the American language =D

I think that' stupid because they are very different and Greece is just is a bad country at that because can't conquer anything and couldn't even get past the Turk and would never be able to integrate the Balkans or Egypt and even Alexander the Great was from Macedonia and not from Greece and if anything, it should be Macedonia having cores everywhere and not Greece because Greece can't even fight a war or pay its debts. x)

please relax DD

 

[unmerged(416312)]

That's like saying the UK should be cores of the USA because they also speak the American language =D

I think that' stupid because they are very different and Greece is just is a bad country at that because can't conquer anything and couldn't even get past the Turk and would never be able to integrate the Balkans or Egypt and even Alexander the Great was from Macedonia and not from Greece and if anything, it should be Macedonia having cores everywhere and not Greece because Greece can't even fight a war or pay its debts. x)

please relax DD

oooohhhh, u finnaly showed ur real self.
macedonia was is and will be greek!! if someone wants to steal our history we wait u with our guns ready!! skopjans have nothing to prove that they are macedonians, we have every single historical prove, they just dont have history and want to steal ours, u are an antigreek so i dont take serious what u say, when my ancestors were building the parthenon urs where waiting for the cow to make ____ for them to eat.if greece never existed u would still be in caves or kishing persian or arabian, or turk, or german ___!! before talking for my country and ANY country in this world wash ur mouth. bismarck said that if greeks stopped to fight each other they would conquer the world, see the videos i posted in page 13. i would start telling all th battles greece has won but the internet doesnt have enough space :happy:

 

[Fernando Torres]

Watch your language or I will have to close this thread until you get banned.

 

[mottwww]

I'm pretty sure that this thread's contents past page 10 are not in any way related to the mod at hand. DO something with that, please.

 

[unmerged(416312)]

Watch your language or I will have to close this thread until you get banned.

sorry, but he insulted my whole country , i wll change my post

 

[unmerged(417112)]

Most of your arguments are about ancient Greece, which has absolutely nothing in common with Modern Greece, apart from the written language. Modern Greeks are a mix of Slavs, Albanians, Bulgars and Turks (this process had started in the first quarter of the X century, and intensified with the traffic of ethnic groups throughout continental Greece and Asia Minor after the Roman conquest of the Bulgarian kingdom). Really, after the XII century 'Greeks' or the Eastern Romans have not accomplished anything, except gradually losing their core territories to the Turks. And from the historic sources from the period it is clear that the Greeks in Asia Minor shifted to Turkic culture as the Greek one died out under the pressure of the massive waves of Turks. Greece has no claim on anything and would never achieve anything, even if it did.

 

[Fernando Torres]

I understand there may be patriotic feelings involved and I totally respect that. But please keep this a discussion about the mod. There is a History forum available for you to have such discussions.

 

[Kannon]

Greece has no claim on anything and would never achieve anything, even if it did. .

Please, no need to be so categorical.
This mod covers a Greco-Turkish war and if player indeed does win, he is entitled to rewards and a better position in the world.
This discussion has been degrading from the possibility of the cores/claims to Greece is horrible/Greece is da best evah and that's just completely unrelated to the actual mod.

 

[unmerged(416312)]

Most of your arguments are about ancient Greece, which has absolutely nothing in common with Modern Greece, apart from the written language. Modern Greeks are a mix of Slavs, Albanians, Bulgars and Turks (this process had started in the first quarter of the X century, and intensified with the traffic of ethnic groups throughout continental Greece and Asia Minor after the Roman conquest of the Bulgarian kingdom). Really, after the XII century 'Greeks' or the Eastern Romans have not accomplished anything, except gradually losing their core territories to the Turks. And from the historic sources from the period it is clear that the Greeks in Asia Minor shifted to Turkic culture as the Greek one died out under the pressure of the massive waves of Turks. Greece has no claim on anything and would never achieve anything, even if it did.

i tottaly dissagree with u and my opinion on what u say is a word that i will not make the mistake saying again, as the admin said this is a place for ideas for a mod

 

[unmerged(416312)]

Please, no need to be so categorical.
This mod covers a Greco-Turkish war and if player indeed does win, he is entitled to rewards and a better position in the world.
This discussion has been degrading from the possibility of the cores/claims to Greece is horrible/Greece is da best evah and that's just completely unrelated to the actual mod.

because we led ourselfs to nothing i think that the most fair, is national on balkans , minor asia and maybe, i say maybe some national provices in the sicily and south italy , claims to the rest areas, do agree with this?

 

[unmerged(398952)]

because we led ourselfs to nothing i think that the most fair, is national on balkans , minor asia and maybe, i say maybe some national provices in the sicily and south italy , claims to the rest areas, do agree with this?

I think that's wrong because even in EU3 where the game takes longer, cores disappear after 50 years unless it's same culture group and they are different culture and so the only Greek cores should be Greece but if so then Macedonia is same culture as Greece and all of Greece should be cores of Macedonia because of in history it being a Macedonian (Alexander) and not a Greek conquering the world and the Greeks then just lost everything and continue to lose so I don't think Greece should ever be able to get that back because it wasn't theirs in the first place.

Just my 2 cents (0.02€) and please don't insult me because that's rude and I'm only giving my honest opinion and with insults the mods might close the thread.

 

[bill2505]

I think that's wrong because even in EU3 where the game takes longer, cores disappear after 50 years unless it's same culture group and they are different culture and so the only Greek cores should be Greece but if so then Macedonia is same culture as Greece and all of Greece should be cores of Macedonia because of in history it being a Macedonian (Alexander) and not a Greek conquering the world and the Greeks then just lost everything and continue to lose so I don't think Greece should ever be able to get that back because it wasn't theirs in the first place.

Just my 2 cents (0.02€) and please don't insult me because that's rude and I'm only giving my honest opinion and with insults the mods might close the thread.

macedonians were greeks as were athenians but this forum is not for this. greece should have a few core only in minor asia and maybe in northern epirus. claims now its another thing

 

[unmerged(416312)]

I think that's wrong because even in EU3 where the game takes longer, cores disappear after 50 years unless it's same culture group and they are different culture and so the only Greek cores should be Greece but if so then Macedonia is same culture as Greece and all of Greece should be cores of Macedonia because of in history it being a Macedonian (Alexander) and not a Greek conquering the world and the Greeks then just lost everything and continue to lose so I don't think Greece should ever be able to get that back because it wasn't theirs in the first place.

Just my 2 cents (0.02€) and please don't insult me because that's rude and I'm only giving my honest opinion and with insults the mods might close the thread.

i insulted u ??u just told that my civ was useless made nothing importand and we gave nothing to humanity, also u said that i am not greek but slav(i am macedonian and live in thessaloniki)
u have to understand that makedonia sint a country, it is a greek provice, in the ancient times every greek state was independed from each other so did makedonia, like epirus, like athens, like corinth... , makedonia was always greek and stop being only when uder turk occupation,i can analize all the reason to u but the forum has other purposes some some googling will clear u mind.
also the greek, serbian ,bulgarian and armenian culture was very close during and after the medieval era, we are the same culture group, and greece after revolution of 1821 doesnt loses parts but taking back the lost ones, the only defeat we had was in 1453 because we were very weak because in the 13th century crusaders captured constantinople while we were friends and when we finnaly took back the city our empire was in a very bad state, turks found the chance and conquer us, west didnt helped us as they promised.and the whole south balkans and minor asia are greek homeland.

 

[mottwww]

also the greek, serbian ,bulgarian and armenian culture was very close during and after the medieval era, we are the same culture group

So... Greeks are Slavs too?

 

[unmerged(398952)]

I didn't insult anyone I'm just saying the truth because I study history and I know these things and everyone knows that greece couldn't win the war specially against the Turks because they always lost and even though this is just a mod it would be very unrealistic to form Byzantium and you said I hated greece which is not true because I like it a lot, I even know in real life a man from greece that sells kebabs and he's very nice so I like people from there.

I know a lot of history because read books and it would be wrong to say greece belongs outside of nowadays greece because it doesn't, that land clearly belongs much more to the Ottomans and if they can't have it, greece even less because even what the greeks say they did, it was all Macedonians, greeks are just trying to imitate their culture because they're only good when they imitate like when they were conquered by Rome or the Turk and only lived because they tried to imitate them and so don't really have a culture and shouldn't have cores anywhere outside of their country and even you said it wasn't greeks, they didn't conquer anything, it always had to be the crusaders and the Macedonians who were stronger and had to defend weaker greece!!

It's just the truth, you shouldn't be upset because of the things that really happened! Now I'll stop this discussion becuase it would be impolite for the moderation team.

 

[unmerged(416312)]

So... Greeks are Slavs too?

we talk about culture not race, all those civs adopted the greek - byzantine culture

 

[mottwww]

we talk about culture not race, all those civs adopted the greek - byzantine culture

No, I mean... It is much more likely that the GREEKS were the ones to amend their culture in favor of the Bulgarians and Serbs and so on rather than the other way around, effectively 'Slavifying' themselves, since Greeks have done that for a long time with Romans and Macedonians and whoever else it was that conquered them before they became independent.

 

[unmerged(416312)]

I didn't insult anyone I'm just saying the truth because I study history and I know these things and everyone knows that greece couldn't win the war specially against the Turks because they always lost and even though this is just a mod it would be very unrealistic to form Byzantium and you said I hated greece which is not true because I like it a lot, I even know in real life a man from greece that sells kebabs and he's very nice so I like people from there.

I know a lot of history because read books and it would be wrong to say greece belongs outside of nowadays greece because it doesn't, that land clearly belongs much more to the Ottomans and if they can't have it, greece even less because even what the greeks say they did, it was all Macedonians, greeks are just trying to imitate their culture because they're only good when they imitate like when they were conquered by Rome or the Turk and only lived because they tried to imitate them and so don't really have a culture and shouldn't have cores anywhere outside of their country and even you said it wasn't greeks, they didn't conquer anything, it always had to be the crusaders and the Macedonians who were stronger and had to defend weaker greece!!

It's just the truth, you shouldn't be upset because of the things that really happened! Now I'll stop this discussion becuase it would be impolite for the moderation team.

if u really study history then u must be one of the worst students or u lie?greeks always lost??we defeated, persians, arabs, turks, italians, germans ,bulgarians, communists...
since our liberation we won against turkey, in 1821 1840 1st and 2nd balkan war and ww1, we only lost the minor asia campaing, u are paranoic, please tell me one occasion where greeks lost (except the one i metnioned). also we lived in this territories for 10 thousand years, turks only 600 and u say they have better claim??also u dont seem to understnd that there is no makedonia country , makedonia is a greek provice, u dont seem to understand english, very well, never in history makedonians were anything else than greek, is like for example u say that cairo isnt egypt but a country and a nation itsleld, skopjans who try to steal the name of our land do it for political and geopolitical reasons, they have no history, they are just some bulgarian muslim slavs who found themselfs independed on a land which isnt theirs, so as they had no fair claims on the area they created some, and now some uneducated people like u say that makedonia is a nation , thats my anwer, please end this crazyness, inform urself with real sources with historical proof

 

[bill2505]

I didn't insult anyone I'm just saying the truth because I study history and I know these things and everyone knows that greece couldn't win the war specially against the Turks because they always lost and even though this is just a mod it would be very unrealistic to form Byzantium and you said I hated greece which is not true because I like it a lot, I even know in real life a man from greece that sells kebabs and he's very nice so I like people from there.

I know a lot of history because read books and it would be wrong to say greece belongs outside of nowadays greece because it doesn't, that land clearly belongs much more to the Ottomans and if they can't have it, greece even less because even what the greeks say they did, it was all Macedonians, greeks are just trying to imitate their culture because they're only good when they imitate like when they were conquered by Rome or the Turk and only lived because they tried to imitate them and so don't really have a culture and shouldn't have cores anywhere outside of their country and even you said it wasn't greeks, they didn't conquer anything, it always had to be the crusaders and the Macedonians who were stronger and had to defend weaker greece!!

It's just the truth, you shouldn't be upset because of the things that really happened! Now I'll stop this discussion becuase it would be impolite for the moderation team.

tell me where do you learn this stupid history. are you joking