A study of game play with Lithuania.

Originally posted by Nikolai II
Nice ideas, I thought I'd toss a few thoughts into the pot.

Many times I will mention 'bad' monarchs. I have no idea how to value a monarch though, so I'll rest it if it should go on total dots, specific skills dots, or just in comparision with the rest of that countrys monarch file.

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Limiting military research for bad-mil monarchs just means more research put into the in single play all-important infra and trade.

I think a limitation would be that 'bad' kings should be forced to go with the 20-20-0-20-20-20 % split of money. That alone would be a toughie.

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Poor diplo peace I could suggest that any peace offering new provinces or more money than 2x current treasury must be accepted, since that was what war was about. Exception only granted if you are not alliance leader, when you could be allowed to just keep honoring the alliance.

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Currently, if you have both poor admin and mil, you set gold to 50% and all others to 0%. Where does the rest go?

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As for DP-clicks I'd suggest that 'bad' monarchs are forbidden entirely to click, good monarchs might be allowed one klick per reign, maybe most to counteract random events and only 'great' monarchs are allowed free DP-clicks, and any amount if reign is 10 years or more.

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I think this idea is interesting, and I think that a nice set of 'rules' that several can try out and compare results in can be very fun, and if we are lucky spawn (at least briefly) a new style of AARing.

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I'm still playing with the ways to go about this. I think after this game I’ll change it to show the differences between very poor and poor monarchs. I'm using the ratings that are in the monarch listings not the dots below the monarch window. Now for what you wrote above.

It's true that limiting research into military tech means more into trade and infrastructure but then if that's where the monarch’s strength is why not? Also what do you mean by "bad king?" You can have a king that is great in handling the economy and the pits at fighting a war.

I like your suggestion on the diplo peace but most of the time the AI demands money instead of offering it but maybe you're right there should be a level that my monarch has to accept.

What happens when the monarch has both poor Dip and Mil marks? Well I move all the sliders except stability to an equal amount and the treasury slider is set at 50%. It's about the only thing I can do. Moving the domestic sliders are really limited!

I've decided that the restrictions on the DP sliders are enough for now at least until I see how they work out. Wish me luck.

Maybe a few others can try this out and as you say it could be fun but one word of caution. As Warspite wrote in his AAR this should only be done with majors or with countries with an extensive monarch list E.G. Sweden, Denmark, and Venice. Otherwise it can be very boring with crappy monarchs for most of the game. I'm trying a second game with Prussia and for the first hundred years they don't have much to work with. Nothing like fighting Poland and Lithuania with your military at 50%.

Joe

Lithuania 1492 the age of explorations. I don’t play the grand campaign any more but that’s another subject for discussion at another time.

Lithuania is large and poor. It is a vassal of Poland and in an alliance with Poland. My first monarch is Jonas I Olbracht 1492-1501. He has average administration ratings, Yes! But he has poor Diplomatic and military ratings so I adjust the sliders accordingly.

Since my centralization slider it was at zero I move it to one.
Well the first difference in game play is that I have to remain a vassal to Poland. Normally I would break it with my first diplomat. With a weaken army I hope I can stay out of trouble. But at least I can work on my economy. For the next several years I build tax collectors.

However first things first. In 1492 Poland declares war against Pommern. I join but don’t plan to get involved since Poland has leaders and I can’t fight my way out of a paper bag. This goes on until 1495 when Pommern gives Poland Vorpommern for peace. Okay no harm no foul.

In 1499 the Ottomans ask for military access which I’m forced to give. This isn’t necessarily a bad move since I do border them and I don’t want to fight them with my army at 50% maintenance.

Finally in 1501 I get a new monarch.

Aleksandras I 1501-1506. Adm ave/ Mil very poor/Dip poor. Just great nothing changes. I’m still a vassal of Poland, Grrr. I move my centralization slider for the second time and it is now at 2.

In December begins the almost continuous period of war that I don't want. During this time my war fatigue coupled with the fact that I had built all those tax collectors as well as a couple of events kept my armies busy putting down revolts. Any way here goes.

Brandenburg declares war against Pommern. Poland, Lithuania, Moldavia and Hungary joined Brandenburg. Yea we’re all one big happy family. Prussia joins Pommern. Wait a minute this is interesting. Finally someone I can pick on! Of course in the beginning Prussia kicks my sorry butt so I have to keep recruiting Calvary and eventually manage to kick them out of my country. Poland besieges Prussia and I sneak in and besiege Memel.

January 1502. Now begins a rather boring period where everyone in the known world declares war against Moldavia. I don’t know what they did to piss so many off so quickly but it worked. Poland and of course their little vassal, yea I’m still a vassal, Lithuania keep coming to Moldavia’s defense. The Ottoman Empire is the first and we lose Hungary from our alliance as they refuse to do something as stupid as fight the Ottomans. By November Mecklenburg along with England, Breman and Hannover declare war on Moldavia. Poland and you guessed it Lithuania joined Moldavia. This time Brandenburg dropped out and turned around and joined the Mecklenburg alliance. Meanwhile I’m still dutifully besieging Memel.

By 1503 the revolts are picking up and I decide to try to sneak in and grab a province from the Ottomans. Maybe that way they will offer me a peace agreement. I besiege Bujak. To make a long story short I don’t succeed in taking Bujak and in fact I’m booted out so hard that I try to avoid the Ottomans for the rest of the war. Fighting at 50% maintenance isn’t for the faint of heart.

By October the Crimea decides to join in the fun and they declarer war against Moldavia. I wait hoping but Poland stays true and I have to also join. Now this is getting serious since the Crimea borders me and has a couple of 25,000 man armies to throw my way. Needless to say I can’t really stop them. Oh and the revolts keep coming. I want diplomats! The Ottomans and Crimea start besieging provinces. However in December I capture Memel. Poland has captured Prussia so all I can do is march home and wait.

January 1504 and I reach infrastructure 2. Poland accepts ducats for peace with Prussia and I march in and start a siege of Prussia. May rolls in and guess what? Yep this time it’s Hungary who does the honors joined by Baden, Wurzburg, Mantua and Bohemia. Poland and little Lithuania join Moldavia. This is getting to be fun. At least my Calvary armies are putting down the nearly constant revolts. Oh how could I forget? In the same month Savoy joined by France, The Palatinat, Papal States and Brittany declared war on Moldavia. Holding my breath didn’t help as Poland joined Moldavia and I also have to join. Sigh, did I mention the revolts? Venice in a moment of madness joined our alliance and the wars. Oh yea my stability dropped but hell that’s been happen off and on for the entire game.

January 1505. Meanwhile back in Prussia, remember Prussia? I was just about to capture it when Brandenburg came in and stole the siege and captured the province. Screwed again but just as I was cussing them out Brandenburg forced Prussia to give me Memel in their peace agreement. Great! I march the 8,000 Calvary that I have in Prussia to Memel to put down any revolts because I suddenly realize that I don’t have military access with any on the countries between me and Memel and I can’t get any until I can send diplomats. I start chanting "Die king die!"

June 1505 and what is left of Prussia agrees to a white peace with Moldavia. What? Someone made peace with Moldavia? In late December Memel revolts and destroys the army that I had left there but the rebels were reduced to the point that they can’t besiege the fortress. I still can’t get to them!

January 1506 and we get a Status Quo peace with Bohemia. Wurburg follows closely with a similar agreement. By March Hungary also agree to peace.

And finally I get a new ruler. By the by I don’t look at the monarch files since I like being surprised.

Originally posted by Sorcerer
What has Moldavia done to deserve this? Has their king slaughtered the firstborns of all European monarchs or what?
Anyway, interesting game (as always). Perhaps I'll look at the monarch file to spoil a few surprises. Naah, I'd never do that...

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Beats the hell out of me. I've seen a few countries that are slated to be conquered early in the game get DOW'd by a few countries but this is a little over the top. I/m praying for a leader with good Diplomacy stats to come along real quick.

Joe

Originally posted by Bismarck
You know, after Cyprus, I had been thinking about doing a Lithuanian AAR... because it had yet to be done... but I may have to set my sights elsewhere now...

M

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This is only going to last a few decades more so Lithuania is still open to play. I might even finish it today.

Joe

August 1506 and Zygimantas I Stary rules Lithuania.

I slowly open the monarch page and find that Adm Average/ Mil Poor/ Dip Good. Yea finally I can sent diplomats! I adjust my sliders to reflect the new reality and the first thing I do is declare to the world that I am no longer a vassal of Poland. Lets see I’ve been a vassal for 14 years. That’s got to be a world record. After thumbing my nose in the general direction of Poland I start sending royal marriages to various countries. I never thought that I would report on a royal marriage again in one of my AARs!

I start sending gifts to the Teutonic Order so that I can get military access in order to relieve Memel.

By January 1507 I make peace with Savoy who of course never sent a single soldier to fight in the war.

By May 1508 we finally get military access through the Teutonic Order. An army is sent to relieve Memel and all is well if you don’t count the war fatigue and rebel revolts.


1509 and Poland agree to peace with Hungary and loses a province which splits Poland into two parts. It’s not looking good for Poland and I’m starting to think that it’s time for a different ally.

From 1509 through 1512 the war continued and the revolts continued. I kept the Ottomans at bay even relieving Jedisan from a siege but I couldn’t get the Ottomans to agree to a peace agreement. Crimea however in 1512 agreed to a Status Quo peace.

1513 brought the news that the Ottoman Empire was willing to agree to a Status Quo peace. Of course the revolts kept coming but to a lesser degree.

By 1515 I felt that I was strong enough to take on what was left of Prussia and I declared war without my allies. Prussia doesn’t have any troops so how hard can it be?

April 1516 shows up and I’m still besieging Prussia when Genoa followed by Tuscany, Modena and the Knights declare war against Poland. Moldavia dishonors our alliance. Thank you Moldavia. After sticking with them while the world was declaring war against them they turn around and bow out of the alliance at the first opportunity. I immediately put in a bet on who will be the first to annex Moldavia. Venice joins Poland and I decide that the grass is greener on the other side and dishonor the alliance. Hey I stuck with Poland long enough.

I now accept the offer from Bavaria to join their alliance of Mantua, Baden, Bohemia and Hungary who are at war with Austria, Munster and Strassburg. Whoops, Sweden joined the war against us the following month. Sweden quickly besieges Memel. I decide to see how my 50% maintenance armies do against the Swedes. We of course lose the battle in Memel but we besiege Kurland, which is owed be Sweden.

By August 1519 we get a Status Quo peace with Munster. In September we capture Prussia and we annex Prussia. In November we actually win a battle against Sweden in Memel. In December we get a Status Quo peace with Sweden. So much for the mighty Swedes. I’m beginning to get the hang of fighting with one arm tied behind my back.

In July 1520 the Ottoman Empire annexes Moldavia. Damn I lost the bet I had that said that Delhi would annex them.

Originally posted by Legolas
FINALLY!!!
FINALLY!!!
FINALLY!!!
A LITHUANIAN AAR!!!
A LITHUANIAN AAR!!!

Sorry for that, but I was waiting for a Lithuanian AAR for SOOOOOOOOO long that I cannot stop my extasy!!!

I hope you do well with this fine version of AAR, Storey!

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I'm glad you're enjoying this AAR Legolas. However since this is a study of game play I can’t say that it is going to go on for very long. With the restrictions that I have placed on myself with the slider positions I’m finding it very hard to expand Lithuania. However that said, I do find Lithuania an interesting country to play. With The Teutonic Order and Prussia in the west and the Ottomans and Crimea to the east and Russia to the North they are in an ideal position to strike out in any direction. Of course the opposite is true in that they can be invaded from any direction. They are fairly large but rather poor in the beginning. They aren't a real power but the potential is there for greatness. My long-range plan was to use Poland as my protection to the south while I attacked north into Russia. But without a monarch with good military ratings I’m stuck with an army set at 50% maintenance, which makes that very difficult. In the next segment you’ll see what happens.

So either you or Bismarck should do an AAR on Lithuania!

Joe

May 1521 and we get a Status Quo peace with Austria. Doesn’t slow down the revolts very much.

May 1525 and Poland finally agrees to peace with the Ottoman Empire. They give Bujak to the Ottomans. And of course my rebellions continue. I start converting provinces as I wait for the dust to settle from the recent wars. Yes Lithuania is finally at peace with everyone.

1533 and Moldavia rises from the asses to haunt the world again. What the hell me arrange a royal marriage with Moldavia. You knid of have to like someone who has the nerve of Moldavia. I just don't plan on coming anywhere near them in an alliance.

March 1536 and our latest alliance expires and we once again join Poland in an alliance. What can I say? They are going to be more useful than my last alliance. We even get Bohemia to join since they are rather strong in this game. We start kissing Poland and Bohemia’s butt to get on their good side. But in May Bohemia showing their true warlike tendencies declares war against Brandenburg who is joined by Bremen, Saxony and Mecklenburg. Poland declines to join and I also decide not to join. I think Bohemia is going to be a little war monger for awhile as in just long enough to get taken apart. Lithuania and Poland form another alliance.

By August 1538 I’m bored waiting for another monarch to show up and decide to see what I can do with an army still at 50% maintenance against Russia so like the idiot I sometimes am I declare war against Russia. Smart move right? Duh! Well lets just say that the title of this war is "The Great Northern War or How I Learned to Say Uncle in Russian."

(Uncle is a slang term for saying "Please, please stop hurting me. I give up!")

Holstein joined Russia and Poland joined Lithuania. A cat and mouse game now took place with my forces and Russia’s. Poland meanwhile went for the brut force approach and besieged several Russian provinces. My plan was to dance around the Russian forces and slip in behind them and besiege a few strategic provinces. It was a brilliant plan that didn’t work worth a damn.

In May 1539 I managed to get Denmark to join our alliance and the war but they were never seen on any battlefield. Now we didn’t lose every battle with Russia but we weren’t able to make any progress. It becomes a real seesaw type of war. Russia keeps a fairly large force in it’s capital so I don’t have a chance of capturing it and ending the war.

In July 1540 Poland Received Kexholm, Kurland and Arkhangelsk from Russia for peace and I was suddenly alone up to my neck in crap.

I lasted until 1541 when I decided to pay Russia 50 ducats for peace. All right I should have known better than to take on Russia and those cold winters in a war with my armies at 50 % maintenance level.

I now decide to focus on improving my relations with Sweden so that the next time I take on the Russian bear I can win. For the next four years I spend my time putting down revolts, which are happening at a decressing rate. If it weren’t for events causing the revolts I think they would have stopped by now. I also spend money on converting more orthodox provinces to the Catholic faith. Three provinces are successfully converted.

In 1545 Sweden finally joins my alliance.

April 1548 and Zygimantas II August rules Lithuania. Adm Average/ Mil poor/ Diplomatic Good. Oh great nothing changes.

Originally posted by Sorcerer


"1533 and Moldavia rises from the asses to haunt the world again."

Does that mean that it's now the biggest ass?

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What a great typo. I'm not going to edit it.

Joe

Originally posted by Legolas


I have tried to write AARs before, but I haven't finished any of them
It seems I do not have the needed talents to write AARs.

Storey - I still hope that you do well, at least better than Lithuania did IRL

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AARs aren't easy that's for sure. I'm going a little farther with this one. But I can't seem to get a good monarch.

Joe

April 1548 and Zygimantas II August rules Lithuania. Adm Average/ Mil poor/ Diplomatic Good. Oh great nothing changes.

All right the experiment is over since I can’t seem top get a monarch with average or better military stats but before I quit I decided to once again go to war. This time I decided to bring Austria to its knees or at least one knee. They’re about 4 to 5 levels higher in military tech and they have a strong country with a strong economy and what the hell am I thinking about in attacking them?

Well two reasons cause me to think that I might have a chance. First Poland borders them so they will be actively involved in the war and Austria is already at war with several countries in Europe so their forces will be split or so my theory goes. All right mount up and hold on tight.

I declared war and Poland joins me. Austria has a couple of allies but they aren’t going to be much help. I wait to see which way Austria is going to attack and luckily they decide to concentrate on Poland. They besiege Poland’s capital, which allows me to send in my Calvary army to ravage the provinces in the interior of Austria. I follow them with my siege army and start besieging the nearest province. There are several battles but I win most of them since I stay out of the way of the main Austrian armies. Poland is able to relieve the siege on it’s capital and I manage to get up to the +28% victory level when I accept one province for peace. I could have asked for more but I wanted to end the war. I’m quite pleased with myself even if it wasn’t an overwhelming victory.

Conclusions:

The slider adjustments do change the way that I play the game to a great degree. Just staying a vassal for so long made a profound difference. By 1568 I had only gained three provinces. Let’s see that’s one province for every 25 or so years of game play. Might make it difficult to conquer the world at that rate. As I said earlier if you try this make sure the monarch file is varied since that’s what will make this enjoyable. I’ve tried another game with Prussia and for the first hundred years they don’t have any really good monarchs so it’s also been slow going but interesting none the less. I’ve gained three provinces and lost two in that game. I still had my military at 50% when I turned Protestant and dropped out of the Poland Lithuania alliance. (Dumb but I was tired of waiting for a monarch with a good military rating) I formed an alliance with Sweden just before Poland declared war on me. I managed to fight Poland to a draw but I lost Livland to Lithuania. I lost Hinterpommern five years later to Poland in another war. I gained Kurland when it declared it’s independence from Sweden and am looking around for my next opportunity.

However in another game as Venice I’m doing quite well since they have some early Doges that are very good. It’s almost a normal game except that I’m in the middle of a large war and I just lost my good military rating and now I’ve got my armies and navy running at 50%. The war has suddenly gotten very interesting. Anyway you might want to give this a try and see how it works out for you. There is still some tweaking to do before I will feel comfortable with this system. Such as making a difference between how the sliders are moved for poor and very poor.

Now it's time for my vacation see you all in a week.

Joe