Diplomacy Universalis, A new breed of MP gaming

[RedPhoenix]

This is an idea that I have been for a while been tossing in my head, now with recent events and improvements in game engine etc, I think it may just be time to realise this idea.

The game will be one where atleast excessive "meta-game thinking" is not allowed, and it is hopefull that there won't be too much of it. (thanks ryo for the nice word)

This basically means players should not justify their actions not by statistics, scripted events coming soon, personal reasons out of game. I know most of us know how the game works and what events there are quite well, just atleast refrain from justifying your actions on that. And it is a game afterall, just keep it in character and don't involve personal emotions in a game and it will work good

Roleplaying is certainly encouraged too, and I hope there will be some of that, however it is not forced on players, yet one who is totally unwilling to play in character and just wants to pwn everyone, please don't sign up for this game

It won't be strictly enforced, but as the rules stated if you don't have a bit roleplaying mind in you and ready to put in some effort to create the athmosphere atleast, then don't sign up for this game

Anyway scoring will favor those who make atleast a bit effort to roleplay their situation, and I must stress roleplaying isn't recreating history here... but somehow getting into the role of the nation how the goals or ambitions of the nation could be but allways different situations will make this change, so we shouldn't look for so much of only one mold but people are free to creat their own roleplaying fantasies and scenarios Whoever is ruling the nation, is sort of the new monarch, you are not tied to the policies of the historical monarch(though it would be very good if you atleast acknowledge the policies of the timeline for that nation), but you create your own policies as you see best fit, though yes you must take into account conditions that would in real life(as a monarch of the current date and nation) limit your choises.

Now we are getting to the main catch of this game, the thing that should keep most gamey play out of here, and make this truly an experience that we can say we are playing a living breathing world, atleast to as much as is doable within this game.

Rules of the game:

- Players will be forced to change nations at certain intervals, it will be random what nation they play next, so they may end up in the same nation if lady luck wishes it so, or in a totally different one. This will hopefully clearly portray and make the game resemble reality in that monarchs changed, policies of a country changed, yes new monarchs knew the actions of their predecessors mostly(not allways everything though) but they had distinctly different aproach to what they wanted to do regardless, and often broke treaties their predecessors made.

What intervals changes will happen at is not decided yet, We can't just rehost the game everytime a monarch dies in game, so perhaps there will be a set amount of years(or a varying amount of years) yet with the addition that a session is played out and country swap happens only after session even if years are exceeded, yet if they come very close it may happen before the year limit.

I have firm belief that as we have mostly regular players dedicated to this game, they will not fancy destroying any a nation by poor play or short term planning as they will be leaving the nation to a friend to play after, and everyone would know what a jerk they were then

Anyway, if someone has inclination to play only short term and destroy nations long term future totally, then please don't apply for this game, this won't be allowed and if it is done willingly then you are out of the game.

- We will use the ruleset allready defined in "DON2" for player behavior and rehosting/players missing etc. Player abuse verbally or otherwise on personal level is not allowed.

- The initial setup will focus on one geographical region, to maintain player /country competition, and disencourage AI bash. This means certain cultures/or geographical areas may be off limits earlier on in the game depending a bit naturally on what kind of country setup and player amount we will end up having. This will be expanded as it becomes appropriate.

- The scenario to be used is PAOE 1520 with modifications.

The country setup will naturally a bit vary depending on what scenario will be used. It is likely we will shoot for around 14 players, possibly more depending on what kind of stable and reliable host we have for the game.


- If a human played country is vassalized or converted by force must stay in such that state for a minumum of 15 years, even through player change, GM/GMs will enforce this and any other similar rule

- Game will begin after DON2 is over, no earlier than september regardless.

- Playing days are yet to be set, but it is likely we will have 1 or max 2 days a week regularly scheduled. We will try to accomodate playing time acording to the possible playing times for whoever will be playing in the game.

- There will be more than one GM in this game to make sure there is no bias involved, and we will get all sides of the coin in case of arguments. One will however be "a head GM" making all the simple decisions, and ones that need a quick call.

- More rules may be added if deemed appropriate at our discression. This is just the basic foundation which to build the game upon, suggestions are welcome for the setup, or any other issue involved in creating a game of this kind.

- AAR writing and roleplaying are as said before, very much hoped for especially in this type of a game, they are not forced upon you though but some brief info on your rule in any given nation is most welcome at the least.


addendum:


- Spain and Portugal are not allowed to take land or colonize in the other others sphere of the globe (REAL TOT, not game TOT, this means Portugal can't colonize in NA which is all spain tot, nor can spain take indian cots or zanzibar or whatver, or colonize africa in general except north africa. ), untill religous tolerance or whatever it is that cancels effects of the TOT.



- Netherlands and United states must be released as a vassal within 5 years of when it comes possible, game will be rehosted and the new player for the country will have to brake the vassalage and declare war on her mother nation.

- Persia is off limits untill otherwise announced.

- Cores on Franche Comte and Lorraine will be added for France in the chambers of reunion.

- Cores on spanish possessions in the lowlands will be given to Austria in spanish succession.

- Subs: If you miss a session its your job to find a sub that will do the most honor for your position and bring you as many points home as possible, thats the idea with subs,, makes people put in a bit effort to find a good sub for themselves too, or put them selves at the mercy of game organizers finding whoever they can. So subs count for that player positions total points.

Player Scoring Guidelines:

General things:

- Fullfilling the roleplaying role of the nation, roleplaying your position and doing things that make sense if you were the king of your nation in real life given your situation.

Includes for example spain making every effort to not allow anyone to colonize in his tot(this includes the entire north america too, if spain atleast makes an attempt to do this he will be rewarded with good score for it, if he succeeds it will be a great score, if he does nothing of the sort it will be a lousy score). Other similar things are Holy roman empire protecting the laws and integrity of the empire, forbidding internal war within the empire and protecting it from all outside threats. (this means if you want a good score for your efforts you can't just start force vassalizing or force annexing HRE states as the emperor or attacking them)

A good catholic has a sworn duty to fight against heretics and infidels untill religious tolerance removes partially this for the protestants. Ofcourse this isn't a solid thruth and secret alliances are not forbidden, but for a catholic to be openly in league with a protestant or muslim won't do good for your score .

To wage a war against a fellow christian one must have a good clause, casus belli for the war, so make sure to lure your enemy into giving you a reason to fight him, or atleast try to make up very good excuses beforehand.

Force Converting(before religous tolerance as much as to grant you +1 to your score) or Vassalizing player nations will give you extra credit.

Above things will raise or drop (may even do so substantially) your total score counted from the following 3 fields of achievements:

For all categories the main rule is to think long term when you score someone, or want to receive bigger scores. Short term play will receive minimum scores, while taking your nations long term future into consideration in your actions will bring you higher scores. Scores should also be related to each nations possibilities a nation with very small military resources for example say portugal can't be expected to singlehandedly defeat france on the continent etc, yet perhaps portugal is expected to do something good in the colonies, regardless if a war between nations of different strenght comes the weaker nation doesn't need to win the war necessarily to achieve a great score, but if he does then that truly deserves a superb score. Fighting smartly and conserving troops etc can be a great tactic for a weaker nation, while aggressive invasion for the stronger.

Diplomacy: Working diplomatically to advance your nations best interests. Getting out of trouble through diplomacy, or getting your enemy in a bad fix through diplomacy. Anything achieved with words and bribing your adversaries to benefit your self count for this score.

Economics: Improving the financial situation of your nation, building up trade and infrastructure for your nation, making smart decisions in these things and naturally building a colonial empire if possible, when its not possible not doing so will not be penalized ofcourse. The main thing to look here is has the economic situation of the nation improved during the session, and how much in relation to others? Deliberately risking economic downfall by war, as in attacking someone then suffering an economic disaster due to this will lower your economic score appropriately, naturally if you succeed to keep a great economy going despite adverse and difficult conditions in a prolonged war that will be rewarded.

Military: Ability shown on the battlefield, doing whats best for the nation in times of war. Preparing and being vigilant not let your self be caught off guard.

- Each category will be rated from 1 to 9 points, 9 meaning that country achieved things beyond belief during the session. 1 being a total failure.

- So basically you can achieve 9+9+9 to a total of 27 points. The general category points will reduce points from this or add to it, inside range of -8 to +8 points aswell, but cannot go above the total of 27 points. On top of which bonus points for force converting heathens and heretics(these can put the score above 27).

- Each player is expected to score the others players acording to these guidelines, for each category score and the total score.

- One should bear in mind that these are guidelines, they are not the solem truth and there can be exceptions to the rule, however rare they may be. For example there may be a good roleplaying or otherwise well justifiable reason to ally one self with a heretic or infidel(meaning in rare cases an open alliance in this form may not reduce ones overall score), yet one should generally be smart to keep such alliances well hidden.

(I hope all write good AAR's as those can improve your score when others know better what was going on with your nation and in diplomacy especially as that is sometimes hard to see from the surface)

GM's for the game currently are:
RedPhoenix
Twoflower (designated scorer)
Stein (designated scorer)


They will handle any disputes regarding the rules.
Rules of player conduct can be located in the Destiny of nations 2 thread.

nations for next week are as follows:

1. RedPhoenix Austria
2. Stein Portugal
3. PJL Russia
4. FAL 8 Poland
5. Owen Spain
6. SMN (tpc) Sweden
7. Mulliman ** France
8. Twoflower England
9. Duma Ottomans
10. Forzaa Venice
11. Krephren Brandenburg
12. Chilliwilli ** Denmark
13. HolisticGod Persia

[Damocles]

Classes are starting up again in three weeks, so it will definitely have to be after DoN finishes.

One of the things that have struck alot of players is the lack of RL diplomacy to be found in long games. This is because, as another poster pointed out, trust and honor are a very integral part of normal game diplomacy, since the country will most likely be played by the same person for over 400 years.

By switching countries every 2-3 sessions of play (roughly 50 yearsish) we insure that countries will have a lively turnover rate (at least 6 times from start to finish) and yet, each player will also have an extremely profound impact on their country. It will also encourage long term play because if play extremely poorly, well, everyone will know.

The main GMs will be Redphoenix and Archduke. Possibly a third, depending on schedule. Though, it should be noted that Diplomacy Universalis will most likely not have the usual problems...Since personal ability to maneuver diplomatically and militarily in a variety of settings is prized over just taking one nation to domination over 200 years. It will also keep the game interesting and challening.

Furthermore, there will be a 'tribune' of observers so to speak. Myself, Redphoenix and one or two others will post comphrensive observations and judgements of how well or pooly a nation was run every segment. Hopefully, it will be done in an entertaining and constructive fashion, as one might expect from reading an encylopedic documentation of a ruler. I will also rate each player's performance so that by the time the game ends, everyone will have a very clear idea of how capable someone has performed. Others might observe, judge and rate if they wish...But I at least, intend to put the effort into it.

Diplomacy will be very integral to the game. Rather then be allowed to become complacent , you will have to aggressively settle treaties and understandings with your neighbours, rather then come to OOC agreements and cooperate for the next 300 years. Remember, you're playing for your own glory...Not for some coalition or single nation.

[Damocles]

Also, due to the game's relative equal opportunity and a focus more on how well off you're able to leave a nation in comparison during your span of play, there will be much less editing or leveling of the playing field...

It dosen't matter if you take over a 500 income Spain in 1650, and by the time you're done with it, it's income is only 550, if in the same span a time, an Austrian player managed to wrest control of Hungary from the Ottomans, even if their income is 1/5th that. In a way, it will reward getting a worse off nation, since you have more opportunity to do alot with it.

Now, if the same Spanish player were able to consolidate a number of diplomatic treaties, persue and succeed in a number of colonial ambitions and perhaps even bring Italy under Spanish influence in the same time period while keeping Spain stable and prosperous, that would be much better then just raising the income..

Do not forget also that it is just as much about competing with yourself, as it is with those around you...

[Freiherr vStein]

Sounds interesting.
Also my diplomatic skills desperately need inprovement

[Damocles]

Originally posted by Freiherr vStein
Sounds interesting.
Also my diplomatic skills desperately need inprovement

Indeed. Players will be rated by how well they do Militarily, Administratively and Diplomatically. Whoever has the highest rating at the end, after playing through 6-7 nations, will be the winner.

Hopefully, more people then just me will do the rating and analyzing, and in that case, scores are averaged. (I.E, if two people score Archduke a 7 Militarily, and someone gives him a six, the final rating will be 6.75 for that segment)

[Dawkins]

This sounds like just the sort of game format that I like. Unfortunately I shall be in Australia from September onwards!

[Quietus]

fall... university firewalls

[PJL]

Sounds like an interseting idea, would give a nice shake up every time things got dull....

[TheArchduke]

As I see I am already fully integrated into this game so I will join it. I can´t start before the 5th September however..

[Roi Soleil]

Sounds like a great idea, i've always wanted to try switching monarchs around from time to time.

[Damocles]

Originally posted by TheArchduke
As I see I am already fully integrated into this game so I will join it. I can´t start before the 5th September however..

You cannot resist. You have been assimilated.

[Mulliman]

This would be a great idea and considering that it starts when school starts (yeah, my schedules are weird!), i wont be as unreliable as this summer.

Would be really fun to play, if i may join that is.

[Damocles]

Originally posted by Mulliman
This would be a great idea and considering that it starts when school starts (yeah, my schedules are weird!), i wont be as unreliable as this summer.

Would be really fun to play, if i may join that is.

We got room for about 12-16 people...Red, Juv or Slargos will be hosting as usual.

[Lord_Robertus]

It sounds very interesting and will defintly stand out from other EU2 games.

[Damocles]

Originally posted by Lord_Robertus
It sounds very interesting and will defintly stand out from other EU2 games.

Hopefully it will take the focus away from who gets what country to what you can do with a country.

[Lord_Robertus]

Will defintely bring more of a real life flavour to the game. Hope I can play when you all start.

[Freiherr vStein]

A few annoying questions:

Will it be possible to choose which country you take next?
Or at least which countries you absolutely don't want to play?
Will there be winners in each category or only an overall winner?
Will we try to match the players to the actual monarchs?
Will it be allowed to load as other player nation between player changes?
Since when do we have a 1619 scenario (I thought it was 1617), or is that a typo?

[Damocles]

Originally posted by Freiherr vStein
A few annoying questions:

Will it be possible to choose which country you take next?
Or at least which countries you absolutely don't want to play?
Will there be winners in each category or only an overall winner?
Will we try to match the players to the actual monarchs?
Will it be allowed to load as other player nation between player changes?
Since when do we have a 1619 scenario (I thought it was 1617), or is that a typo?

1) No. That would create some possible abuses.
2) Kind of defeats the purpose of the game.
3) Both.
4) Impossible to do. Will just happen by set years. Afterall, it can be said that a monarch's major policy decisions were influenced by the years before him, and had ramifications on the years after his death. So not a big problem.
5) Hrm?
6) Typo.

[ryoken69]

Well, I have been having a little trouble lately in the military category. I have been encountering sound military defeats in my past few games. However, my economic and diplomatic abilities should more than compensate. I will have to settle for being Colbert and Richelui, not Turenne and Napoleon. But hey, you need someone to manage the books.

RedPheonix accuses me of a dirty mouth, so I will have to keep my language in check (sorry, I went to public school in the United States ). I will just pretend that my parents are playing or my grandma is watching.

School starts for me in the fall. I have all night classes, so as long as the game ends before 4:00 PM EST (what time is that in Europe?) I can play. Otherwise, I will have to sit it out unless it is all Friday/weekend sessions.


EDIT: Please dont play GC! England and Burgundy will do evil things.

[RedPhoenix]

Originally posted by Lord_Robertus
Will defintely bring more of a real life flavour to the game. Hope I can play when you all start.

Would you care to post your ICQ here, or private it to me? or just add me at 164526.

ICQ is quite essential for this game.