Tips for World Conquest

[calcsam]

I don't believe anyone has ever done a semi-WC FAQ for 1.07, so here I go. I have no experience w/ European WC, but I do with Asian. so here I go.

I. Basics

A. Game settings

You MUST be at very hard. Asian countries simply do not get enough diplomats to perform a WC without BB wars. You should probably install Peter Ebbesen's Asian Manpower mod if you are in East Asia, otherwise you won't be able to maintain enough armies to do anything.

B. DP settings.

Move them immediately to at least 4 innovativeness if you are below that. If you are at 4, move to 6. If you are 5 or 6 inno, take one or two DP steps towards innovativeness. If you are 7+ originially (is this even applicable?) one step towards inno should suffice.

After you have finished doing this, move centralization up. I like 7 or 9 centralization early. If you are 0 or 1, move it up five times; 2 or 3's should move it four times, 4's, three times, 5's, two times, and 6's, one time. 8's (are there any?) should also move it up once.

The reason for these changes is that each innovativeness step reduces tech costs by 5% and each centralization step does so by 2%. This is very important, as every year that you are tech 5 and your opponents aren't or at tech 7 and your opponents aren't is very helpful assault-wise.

2. Early strategy (1419 to 1450)

A. General

Expansion is the key word. Some people might say that at the beginning you are too weak do anything except take poor provinces that earn you pointless BB. While taking poor provinces is a bad idea, taking average provinces in the beginning is a good idea because it gives you a manpower base, census taxes, and the BB you earn will be erased with time if you are prudent. However, always take the CoT over the two to four average provinces in peace deals.

B. War Targets

China, oddly enough, has a big bulls-eye painted over it. It has almost no fortification in its interior. This means, while it is distracted with Manchuria, Southeast Asian nations or Chagatai Khanate can DoW, rampage through with a small complement of cavalry, and demand at least one province for peace. However, it gets an event in 1450 putting fortresses in two of its provinces, and usually fortifies another couple then.

Do not take out Delhi if you are a Muslim nation unless under dire circumstance. The usually convert 2/3 of their Hindu province to Islam, and crippling them is disadvantageous if you want to get taxes and manpower out of India. The same goes for Hyderabad and Bengal, if they are actually converting provinces. However, if you go to war with them, take only their Muslim provinces.

If you are a Hindu nation that is able to take out any of the aforementioned Muslim nations, feel free to do so! Take only their Hindu provinces.

As for the Timurid Empire, they are pretty decent before 1450, when they get hit by "The Disintegration of the Timurid Empire", especially with Shah Rukh. Even if you are tempted by those nice unfortified Persian provinces, restrain your urges, especially if you are playing with the Asian Manpower mod. The exception here is if either you are Delhi, a powerful Oman/Mamelukes, or the Timurids have become embroiled in a war with two of the following: Uzbek Kaganate, Chagatai Khanate, or Delh at the same time.

A stategy that I have never tried, but that might work, is to ally with the Timurids, DOW the Uzbeks, do the fighting, but let the Timurids take the sieges, and settle for peace giving the Timurids 5 provs, which will cause a BB war. After theyare DoW'ed by the whole Steppe, Delhi, Gujarat, Chagatai Khanate, and Qara Koyunlu (maybe even Oman, the Kaliphate, and the Mamelukes) along with their allies, you can take part in the carving up of their empire.

C. Investments

Investments should be made only in military tech, try to advance one and a half tech levels or so during this period. Don't even worry about stability unless you have 7+ provs.

3. 1451 to 1500

The Disintegration of the Timurid Empire event makes the Timurids the new target. Unless you are the Uzbeks, seizing Persian provinces is always a good idea, especially if you are Oman or the Mamleukes. China gets one fortification event in 1450 and another in 1500, beware that there won't be as many places to romp around, especially if you take them.

If by now you still haven't taken any Chinese provinces and you manage to take control of any SE Asian provinces w/ low supply limits bordering China, to attack China just DoW and watch the Chinese troops die. Then, invade by sea or by a country you have MA with. This should only be used if (a) you have land tech 5 and China doesn't or (b) you can invade with at least 50k troops.

If you finish your DP adjustments, lower serfdom twice. If your centralization or innovative are <5, bring them up to 5. If they aren't, keep lowering serfdom until you are at 5.

If you can colonize Jakarta, by all means do so. Kill the natives in Sunda and colonize there, too.

If you are Delhi or Gujarat or Jodhpur, you should devote this time to utterly crushing the Timurids. Take a Persian province before 1497 (preferably Tabaristan). You should have by now taken all Timurid provinces that aren't going to belong to Persia (the Afghan provs I believe, the ones that defect to Perisa via event are #'s 525-536, 1529, 1530). In 1497 release Persia as a vassal, let the Timurids lose all their province but Samarkand to the Persians, and propmtly DoW the Timurids. That force-annex button should feel good

Once you reach mil tech 9, pour money into infra and trade tech.

(to be continued)

[Freiherr vStein]

I disagree on the research strategy, you shouldn't invest in land before 1460 (and waiting even longer is not a bad idea) and focus on the economic techs, the average date for land 2 is 1450, for 3 1465, for 4 1475.... and for 9 1502. If you reach the techs before the date you will have a ugly penatilty on the costs, and if you have upped your economic techs in the mean time your income will be considerably higher, so you won't actually take any longer to get to land 9 than with full investment from 1419.

[Klorik]

Here is a good stragtegy for the most lazy of us, playing very easy. It's not easier, just cooler without BB wars.

1 DP settings:
*Look first for quality
*Then max to free people
*Then go Narrow minded to get the missionaries
*Let the game make you decentralise
*Free trade
*Go for plutocratic: you don't need good diplomates for DOWing
Do not worry for navies: once your European neighbors annexed, none will will be able to match your fleets

2 Research
*Start to go to level 2 trade to be able to make your trading posts
*Then, do only invest in Infra until level10... er... not applicable on latest patches...
*Maximise trade until level 10
Do not worry for your military tech: your neighbor bonus will provide what you need, and you will soon have enough troops to overcome European opponent's superior tech.
*Naval and Land must develop roughly at the same speed

3 Strategy
*Don't lose any time and attack the future superpower when they are still weak (England, Spain, Austria, Moscow/Russia, France). Start with the closest to you. France is an excellent target during the 100 years war. Austria start with a war against Helvetia.
*Look for force-vassalisation in peace treaties
*Annex the german minor and the Baltic nations before they convert to protestantism. Otherwise, do not attack them before they convert. Then you will be able to ask for force-vassalisation, and once the edict of tolerance occured, you will be able to diplo-annex them.
*Support as far as you can Byzantium by sending money. The longer they last, the weaker the Ottomans.
*Let your vassal colonise a bit for you (eg Spain or England)
*Do not hesitate to DOW and to invest in stability. Once you're the only free country left in the latin tech group, there is no problem for delaying investments in military tech.
*If China has colonies in the new world, try to obtain their defection by hindering Chinese soldier to defeat rebels (Pirates in adjacent sea zone)
*Any time you're at +3 stab, Dow an other target. You don't have time to lose

4 Religion
*Whatever your religion, convert every single province to it (more manpower, more troops raised, more money, less stab investment required, lower RR
*Choose your targets in order to avoid having more than 3 different religions in your country
*For the british isles, you rather wait the counter-reform before you start the conversions

5 Vassals
*A lot of powerfull vassals will come from force-vassalisation. But if you can diplo-vassalize in same time other nations, do it
*The nation you will have to force-vassalize are France, Spain, England, Austria, Russia and Papal States
*Annex your vassals in convenient periods to benefit from the +1 stab
*Do not hesitate to release the Netherland as a vassal when the turmoil starts

6 Investments
*Mayors and judges everywhere
*Use Governors in the most suitable way to lower inflation, depending on the patch you're playing
*Big fortresses are needless
*When you colonise, look for colonies
*Build manufactures

7 Manpower pools
-You will need some areas all around the world allowing the quick recruitment of 50k troops. These areas make conversion mandatory. They are:
*Egypt
*Persia
*India
*Japan
*China
-Otherwise, since your navy will be quite good, do not hesitate to sent 350K soldier at once to attack remote asian countries like China, from Europe.
-Have a few very fortified province to store huge invasion armies

8 Money and Manpower
Once you get the french and Dutch provinces, you don't have to bother about these.

So that was the contribution of someone who do not like to play world conquest.

[Owen]

Interesting calcsam. I have a few questions and points though.

Your investment strategy for the early game is mad. Putting money to land or naval to get ahead of the curve is the biggest waste of money in the game until you are rolling in money and your manufactories cost astronomical amounts. Getting land 5 early for assaults is just not worthwhile given the costs.

I was going to point out that you don't mention having to research naval and get your sliders right for the random explorers, but maybe you were going to mention that in the next time band.

WC strategy is very dependent on when you plan to kick off the BB wars. When, or at what tech level were you planning it?

I'm also not sure about your slider strategy. I tried out a similar strategy a few weeks ago, by going with "outward expansion" in the Zheng He event as China. It's an acceptable strategy, but while at lower trade/infra levels, will leave you permanently at -3 stab, with no trade income.

I guess much of this depends which country you were playing. Certainly I don't think you were playing a nation in Indonesia. My guess is Bengal.

Oh, and why the hell would you want to use up BB points by force annexing the Timurids, who are likely to be same religion as you? You should let Persia or the Uzbeks do it.

Klorik, a couple of comments on your post.

I don't think Land is the way forward for WC. The increased income and colonists and random explorers far outweighs the cheaper troops.

You're also confused about the "high manpower areas for recruiting." What you need for recruitment is high tax provinces. Hence China. China isn't particularly high manpower for someone without Han/Cantonese culture. I also think attempting to convert the high population provinces in China and elsewhere is a bad idea, when you should be concentrating on pagans and removing one of your slider religions, usually reformed or shiite.

All the same, some very good ideas there.

[Owen]

Ah, and a very important point Klorik. BB war is dependent on difficulty level (very hard only) not on agression level (coward).

The diplomats are still needed for annexations and to pay countries off, while high diplo ratings also mean diploannexation is easier. Full plutocratic therefore can be dangerous for WC.

[swilhelm73]

Techwise you can, and should, get to 2/2/2/2 early on. From that point your goal is Infrastructure 5. The only reason to change this pattern in the slightest way is if you get greatly ahead of the infra research rate, in which case you should invest in trade.

You can easily beat AI armies up to land 9 with all CAV armies at land 2.

After you get Infra 5 - which probably will not be until after you've started the BB wars you should most likely invest in land. Your intermediate tech goals are 18/18/4/5.

Sliderwise, your first goal is aristocracy 10, to get faster BB point removal

After that your slider goals are, in no particular order;

Innovative 0 - for settlers, missionaries, and cheap stab

Centralization 10 - there is no point to decentralization even in a WC attempt

Mercantilism 0 - more settlers

Aristocracy 0 - *alot* more income this way - but don't shift until you are ready for the BB wars.

[Klorik]

The diplomats are still needed for annexations and to pay countries off, while high diplo ratings also mean diploannexation is easier. Full plutocratic therefore can be dangerous for WC

At the time you start moving this slidders, there are no more christian nation left, or too few to have any problem due to low aristocratie The other slider (Quality, Free people, narrowminded and free trade) come first.

You're also confused about the "high manpower areas for recruiting." What you need for recruitment is high tax provinces. Hence China. China isn't particularly high manpower for someone without Han/Cantonese culture. I also think attempting to convert the high population provinces in China and elsewhere is a bad idea, when you should be concentrating on pagans and removing one of your slider religions, usually reformed or shiite

Same again, I'm very quick on removing slider religion. What I call an good area for manpower, I should rather say for recruiting: any group of porvinces with max recruitment capacity at, or over 8k. Christian Shangai will provide you easily 11k troops within 2 months.

EDIT: I agree land might be not the best. I will edit my first reply to change it. It is more bound to my own style I think.

[Klorik]

Centralization 10 - there is no point to decentralization even in a WC attempt

I always have the feeling that trying to go centralised is a waste of time, because the random events turn to get you decentralised.

Of course, the higher production can not be neglected.

[Freiherr vStein]

Originally posted by Klorik
I always have the feeling that trying to go centralised is a waste of time, because the random events turn to get you decentralised.

Of course, the higher production can not be neglected.

The higher production is almost just a side effect, the tech cost modification is much more important, and the effect on census taxes and civil war probability shouldn't be neglected either.

[calcsam]

Originally posted by Owen


Your investment strategy for the early game is mad. Putting money to land or naval to get ahead of the curve is the biggest waste of money in the game until you are rolling in money and your manufactories cost astronomical amounts. Getting land 5 early for assaults is just not worthwhile given the costs.

Now that I look over my game, you are right. I was land 4/naval 3/trade 2/infra 3 by 1503, then I put all tech into land and beat China to tech 5 (the backward idiots were still at land 3)

[calcsam]

Originally posted by Owen

I guess much of this depends which country you were playing. Certainly I don't think you were playing a nation in Indonesia. My guess is Bengal.

You aren't even close Korea.

[calcsam]

Originally posted by Owen

I'm also not sure about your slider strategy. I tried out a similar strategy a few weeks ago, by going with "outward expansion" in the Zheng He event as China. It's an acceptable strategy, but while at lower trade/infra levels, will leave you permanently at -3 stab, with no trade income.

I'm confused. I was always at +3 stab until close to the BB wars. The thing is, the "Outward expansion" event quickly changes you into a very progressive country. Not having that luxury as Korea, I progressed slowly, and was always at +2 or +3 stab.

[calcsam]

Originally posted by Owen

Oh, and why the hell would you want to use up BB points by force annexing the Timurids, who are likely to be same religion as you? You should let Persia or the Uzbeks do it.

Another good idea. Persia probably, since they can be your vassals and you can bring them into alliance with you. But don't forget, the Timurids become the Mughals in 1504, get 30k armies and Babur (6/5/5/3).

[calcsam]

Originally posted by Owen

WC strategy is very dependent on when you plan to kick off the BB wars. When, or at what tech level were you planning it?

I did in my game at 1653, but now I realize I was too slow. In 1653, I was land 15/naval 14/trade6/infra 5. I was one CRT ahead of most of the competition.

[Mad King James]

I always just build up a killer economy for the first couple hundred years, expand slowly and build a monster power base, then spend the last 200 years stomping the hell out of everyone.

Heck, most of my conquests usually happen from 1720 on anyways, you can move so bloody fast by then, and you have virtually unlimited resources. I think I completely overran China in 4 months.

[calcsam]

4. The Transition Era (1500 to 1550)

A. My new tech policy

If you follow my new advice on land, which is to get land to 2, infra and trade to 2, land to 5, infra and trade to 3, then land to 9, meanwhile keeping 15-20% of your investments in naval, then you should be getting to land tech 9 in 1540 to 1550. You will still be ahead of China, which is your benchmark of the AI.

B. DP settings

Once you are done with the changes mentioned previously, do the following:

If your land is 5 to 7, go towards naval immediately. Four DP changes should suffice for now if you are 5 or 6, but 5 are required if you are at 7. Why? By now you should have a CoT or two. How do you expect to make any money from it if you are at a pitiful trade efficiency?

If you are land 3 or 4, move to land 2. If you are land 8 to 10, forget about it for a while. Instead, move to aristocracy 3 if you are aristocracy >5, but if you are at 5 or less than five, more to aristocracy 1. Then, move to land 2 or 3.

Throughout all of this, don't touch your mercantilism slider, but if you get a random event for it, go towards mercantilism. If you get one for aristocracy, move towards plutocracy. If you get done with this (somehow) before 1550, move towards two steps towards mercantilism is you are 6 or 7, one step if you are 8 or 9. If you are wondering why, embargoes are a beautiful thing . If you are five or under mercantilism, forget about it, and move towards free subjects.

B. Investments. Once you get land tech 9, go to trade 4, then invest in naval until you get to naval 7, then invest in land 14, then infra 4, then naval 11.

C. Strategy

This period is one of slow preparation for the inevitable BB war, which means that you have to grab CoT's and build yourself a defensive position around them. The Ganges CoT is awesome if you are Indian or Buddhist. You can grab it for only 6 BB (4 DoW + 2 from taking it. If you can get a CB by random event/claim throne, that is even better.

"But what about me", I hear you saying. "I'm a Middle Eastern/Indonesian nation. Sure I took Malacca/Isfahan/Alexandria/Astrakhan, but Ganges? I don't think so!". Ganges is still a good target if you have no land access to it. Perhaps, evem better! If you take Ganges, you can embargo everyone in it come the BB wars at no stab cost, and yet they can't force you to return it - they can't force you to the peace table even if they capture it!

Kansai is also a good target for SE Asian and Indonesian nations now. Nippon should undergo painful civil war, and if it moves the capital, you can run all over war-wracked Japan (unable to field troops b/c of 15% RR in all provs) and take Kansai.

Meanwhile, consolidate your position on the home front by eliminating enemies. The best way to do this is by getting into wars with four-province neighbors, force-vassalizing them, and taking them into your alliance. If you do this with two or three, you can annex them fast.

As an Confucian or SE Asian nation, you should have grabbed a chunk of fortressless China. Now, one final war and force-vassaliztion should work to forever eliminate them as enemies. This will bring you up to -150 relations. pend a lot of money getting them to -50 or so, RM'ing them, and bringing them into your alliance. Get them to +100 now. Doing the same to Nippon after grabbing Kansai can also be a good idea. With China, in 1555, 1581, 1615, and 1622 they get major stability-reducing events. This is a good time to diploannex them.

Keep in mind always that the best way to kick off the BB wars is to annex a large vassal while in an alliance with other strong powers.

[calcsam]

Originally posted by Mad King James
I always just build up a killer economy for the first couple hundred years, expand slowly and build a monster power base, then spend the last 200 years stomping the hell out of everyone.

Heck, most of my conquests usually happen from 1720 on anyways, you can move so bloody fast by then, and you have virtually unlimited resources. I think I completely overran China in 4 months.

Yeah, pre-modern blitkriegs are fun. In my Korea game, I had colonized 90% of Siberia and put only level 1 fortresses. In my BB wars, I ended up at war w/ Russia, and they took five years to completely assault about half of Siberia while I was distracted. When I made peace with three of my enemies at the same time and diploannexed the Mughals, I had maybe 100k troops attacking Russia, with whom I had a -35% WS with. Half died in the first six months killing Russian armies running around my non-Siberian territory, the rest were used in six months to retake all of Siberia (partly in winter) and to overrun the Russian steppe. I now had a +22% WS, and six months later I signed peace getting six provinces

[Owen]

You know, calcsam, you must learn to put multiple quotes in one post. But I digress.

Originally posted by calcsam
You aren't even close Korea.

I'm a bit suprised you got as far as the Timurids by 1450 then.

If you were at +3 stab with the slider strategy you've outlined, then you have three options. Either:

1) You didn't expand quick enough to start with
2) You were very careful to only take centres of trade
3) You put too much investment into stability
or 4) You were very lucky with random events.

Which is it?

Ah yes, and the "We can be allies" event for the Mughals that you referred to, where Persia inherits lots of provinces, means that Persia is usually unlikely to force annex the Mughals for a while. Of course, if your strategy is to ally with them and declare war, then that's different, but the DoW still costs too much BB.

I still think you're switching to land tech too quickly. Cavalry, manouevring and second-guessing the ai should be the key to warfare in the 1400s.

Also, I'm astonished that you don't mention the settings needed for random explorers once, which I would consider vital for Korea. Either that, or how best to minimise the BB cost of acquiring map knowledge of SE Asia and the Middle East.

[mueller]

Many good points calcsam, but as others said I prefer to invest in infra/trade. With a good economy you do not really need a manpower mod although it certainly does not hurt.

Crucial techs are 18/18/4/5. Once you get there you are basically ready. I don't think you need an enormous army at the early stage, 200-300K will do, maybe even less.

DP sliders:
- innovativeness 4-7 (depending on bonus missionaries in XV century). It's Ok to reduce innovativeness once you get key techs. Eventually average discovery dates will become the greatest barrier to tech advancement, at which point it's pointless to stay innovative.
- aristocracy 10. Yes I know it hurts income but without christian bonus diplomats you'll need to squeeze your monarch's (likely meager) dip skills for what they are worth. Exception: all your monarchs are so bad you won't gain any bonus diplomats even with max aristocracy (ie their Dip skill is 5 or lower). In that case, go ahead and move towards plutocracy.
- mercantilism 10. Unless you are China, most of early game income in Asia comes from trade. And by some reason merchant placement costs in Asia are awfully high. Reducing their costs is very helpful. Again, eventually (once your census is 300d+ you can move towards free trade).
- centralisation 10. Obvious.
- land 0. There is no other way to get colonists with high innovativeness/mercantilism, and Asian countries profit from colonization in Asia manpower-wise. Since most of Asian income is from trade, and since you need ships to D-Day Europe eventually, naval is good anyways.

During XV century most of research should go into infra. Exception: if you have a chance to finish some tech before taking new lands, put everything into this tech. That's because your tech costs will increase immediately after acquiring new lands. It is worthwhile to delay a peace treaty for as long as it takes to finish land 2/naval 2.

Province priorities:
(a) CoTs - all of them
(b) whatever province will give you a frontier nation status
(c) Tabaristan - highest manpower in Asia together with Isfahan, but Isfahan is covered by (a)
(d) colonize Indonesia (Jakarta first) and India (Bombay and/or Palakimedi first)

The easiest country in an unmodded game is imo the Kaliphate, although Algiers, Timurids, Gujarat, Orissa etc all should be able to do it.

The Kaliphate early strat:
1419-1450:
Ally with Timurids. Cancel vassalization with Timurids. DoW Oman. Build a small galley fleet in Basrah (you'll need to take wartaxes once or twice to speed it up). Send it to Zanzibar dodging Omani ships once Mascate falls. Take Zanzibar+all Omani TPs where natives have been cleared+money.
SEcond objective is Kutch. Easy to accomplish given Timurids passion for attacking Gujarat. If Timurids devastate Gujaratis, Jodgpur will often finish them off which is even better since you can take Kutch at less BB.
Once you learn of India, start colonizing Bombay/Goa.
By 1450, you should be able to get 2/2/3/2. Build a refinery in Zanzibar if money allows (probably not, but it should remain an objective).

1450-1500:
Objectives:
- primary - Persia, Ganges
- secondary - Kirkuk, Syria, Alexandria and any mediterranian port.
Secure miltary access through Timurids. Run small cavalry armies through their unfortified provinces to prevent their government from falling. This should ensure defections of most Persian provinces (they cannot defect to anybody else most likely). If you are lucky, you'll get everything from Hamadan to Hormouz at zero BB.
An alliance with Timurids will ensure plenty of defensive wars. Ignore Uzbeks & co but be prepared to defend against Mamelukes (and take their best provinces of course). Once Timurids are sufficiently reduced, dip-vassalize them.
Infra 4 circa 1475 (build chief judges)
In 1.05 it would be possible to get infra 5 by 1500, but in 1.07 you'd get hit with "ahead of time" penalty, so go after trade 3 instead.

1500-1550:
Things should become easier and more obvious at this point. Finish off Mamelukes for manpower. Continue colonization. Convert Persia and build refineries. Try to get a foothold on Malay penninsula. Block Portugese colonization in Asia whenever you can. Possibly either sack Tago from Alexandria or make friends with Portugal and buy their maps. Convert Omanis to Sunni, invite to your alliance and diplo-vassalize them.
Finish infra 5/trade 4 and start working on land 11/naval 11. I actually prefer naval tech first for a shipyard, but it's Ok to invest to land at this point. Embargo Zanj and Zimbabwe from Zanzibar.
1550-1600:
Wrap things up, build manufactories, dip-annex Oman, Mughals (hopefully they should be able to take Delhi with your help and convert some of their Hindu provinces), consolidate India, etc.
18/18/4/5 is feasible by 1600 if not earlier.

1600+:
You are as ready as you will ever be in Asia. Stock up on diplomats. Start BB with some big diplo-annexation. Turkey may be a good ally at this point to secure your western flank. Go after minors first to reduce the number of separate DoWs. Embargo majors if you have spare diplomats. A monopoly in all Asian CoTs that you'll own at this point should be more than enough to fuel your war effort. China wars will probably take 50 years if not more. Try to eliminate Shiites, Buddists, and few remaining Hindus. Once shiites are gone, go after Europe starting from (methinks) Iberia. Or possibly Russia. Honestly, I've got mighty bored at this point

[calcsam]

Originally posted by Owen
I'm a bit suprised you got as far as the Timurids by 1450 then.

I didn't with Korea, I have with Ak Koyunlu and I also had maps of the Timurids and noticed how badly they were doing then as Korea.

Originally posted by Owen

If you were at +3 stab with the slider strategy you've outlined, then you have three options. Either:

1) You didn't expand quick enough to start with
2) You were very careful to only take centres of trade
3) You put too much investment into stability
or 4) You were very lucky with random events.

Which is it?

I didn't expand quickly enough, taking provinces only from China (Confucian provs), Japan, and Manchu before the BB wars. Don't forget that with the new stability system, Confucianism gets -10 stability costs on all provinces. Translation: stability is 10 ducats a province, for every province.

Originally posted by Owen
Ah yes, and the "We can be allies" event for the Mughals that you referred to, where Persia inherits lots of provinces, means that Persia is usually unlikely to force annex the Mughals for a while. Of course, if your strategy is to ally with them and declare war, then that's different, but the DoW still costs too much BB.
[/b]

You're being penny wise and pound foolish. Taking 4 BB is much cheaper in the long run that fighting 6/5/5/3 Babur with a 30k army.

Originally posted by Owen
I still think you're switching to land tech too quickly. Cavalry, manouevring and second-guessing the ai should be the key to warfare in the 1400s.
[/b]

Maybe in China and on the steppes, but try using cavalry against a numerically superior infantry army in SE ASia (1/3 mountains, 1/3 forest, 1/3 swamp) or Japan (mountains) or western Persia (mountains) or Southern India (mountains and forest) or Afghanistan (mountains).

Originally posted by Owen
Also, I'm astonished that you don't mention the settings needed for random explorers once, which I would consider vital for Korea. Either that, or how best to minimise the BB cost of acquiring map knowledge of SE Asia and the Middle East. [/b]

Random explorers are naval 9/trade 3, right? I have no idea, really. To obtain maps, I sacked Anhui (before they moved it), and traded maps with Delhi, which had sacked Samarkand. I didn't really think it was that hard. Then I traded with Portugal, and used my next explorer to find a way across the Pacific, so I didn't have to send a 25k man expedition to get to the Aztecs (only 10k actually arrived).