NOT A BUG: Frence Naval OOB - BB/CV/CA

[mhitchens1963]

1936 Scenario France Naval OOB suggested changes- BB, CV, CA
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Add to starting forces:
Algerie (basic cruiser)

Add to commenced builds:
Dunkerque (150mm+ battleship) completes 15 April 1937

Remove from starting forces:
Pluton (pre-war cruiser)

Add to techs:
Basic BB Hull
Basic BB propulsion
Basic Battleship 150mm+

Change in starting forces:
Duguay Trouin (pre-war cruiser to basic cruiser)
Lamotte-Picquet (pre-war cruiser to basic cruiser)
Primaguet (pre-war cruiser to basic cruiser)
Leanne D’Arc (pre-war cruiser to basic cruiser)
Emile Bertin (pre-war cruiser to basic cruiser)
La Galissoniere (pre-war cruiser to basic cruiser)

Notes:
A battleship commenced at the start of the scenario completes 11 Oct 1937. The Dunkerque completed April 1937, so needs to be in the commenced builds.
The techs are those required for the French to actually be able to build 150mm+ Battleships.
The Pluton was a minelayer completed in 1931. She was of light cruiser tonnage, but effectively no armour and a main battery of four 5.5 guns. As such she is better counted as a destroyer. I note the equivalent British ships (Abdiel class) did not appear in the UK OOB.
The Algerie was completed in 1934. I can’t see why she wasn’t included.
The altered cruisers are further examples of modern light cruisers.

1939 Scenario France Naval OOB suggested changes- BB, CV, CA
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Add to starting forces:
Algerie (basic cruiser)
Jean de Vienne (basic crusier)
Marseillaise (basic crusier)
Gloire (basic crusier)
Montcalm (basic crusier)
Georges Leygues (basic crusier)

Remove from starting forces:
Ocean (pre-war dreadnought)
Paris (pre-war dreadnought)
Courbet (pre-war dreadnought)
Pluton (pre-war cruiser)

Add to commenced builds
Richelieu (improved battleship) completes July 1940
Jean Bart (improved battleship) completes December 1940

Add to French techs:
Basic ASW and Convoy escorts 6400
Improved Warship design 6500
Improved battleship propulsion 6502
Improved battleship hull 6505
BB belt armour 50mm+ 6401
BB deck armour 20mm+ 6402
Improved Battleship 6508
Self propelled artillery 14200
Improved equipment and ordnance 14300
Improved artillery pieces 14400
Naval battleship gun 400mm+ 14403
Basic Battleship 350mm+ 6108
Naval Battleship Gun 350mm+ 14016 ?????

Notes:
See 1936 scenario.
Ocean was disarmed and converted to a training ship in 1938
Paris and Courbet were converted to training ships in 1939
Richeliu essentially completed on the date shown. Jean Bart was never fully completed during the war, but was made serviceable with half her designed main armament. Perhaps an event is needed to cover this. I have rated them as improved battleships as they are no worse than the Littorio’s or King George V’s. This means the French should have the additional techs listed.
Apart form the Algerie, discussed under the 1936 scenario, the added cruisers are sisters of La Galissonniere, all completed in 1937.


1941 Scenario (Free) France Naval OOB suggested changes- BB, CV, CA
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Add to commenced builds:
Lorraine (pre war dreadnought) completes 30 May 1943 (no IC cost)
Duguay-Trouin (basic cruiser) completes 30 May 1943 (no IC cost)
Suffren (basic cruiser) completes 30 May 1943 (no IC cost)
Richelieu (improved Battleship) completes 1 October 1943 (no IC cost)
Gloire (basic cruiser) completes 1 October 1943 (no IC cost)
Montcalm (basic cruiser) completes 1 October 1943 (no IC cost)
Georges Leygues (basic cruiser) completes 1 October 1943 (no IC cost)

Notes:
Lorraine was interned by the British at Alexandria from June 1940 until May 1943. At that point she joined the Free French forces. Similarly for the Duguay-Trouin and Suffen.
Richeliu was refitted in the USA, joining in the Free French forces in October 1943, similarly Gloire, Montcalm and Georges Leygues.

1941 Scenario Vichy France Naval OOB suggested changes- BB, CV, CA
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Remove from starting forces:
Pluton (pre-war cruiser)
Suffren (basic cruiser)

Add to starting forces:
Lamotte-Picquet (basic crusier)
Primaquet (basic cruiser)
Algerie (basic cruiser)
Emile Bertin (basic cruiser)
La Galissonniere (basic cruiser)
Jean de Vienne (basic crusier)
Marseillaise (basic cruiser)

Change in starting forces:
Jeanne d’Arc (pre-war cruiser to basic cruiser)

Notes:
See 1936 scenario
I do not recommend changing the Jean Bart from her current rating of 150mm+ battleship as only one turret was mounted during the war.
Apart from probably not deserving to be rated as a cruiser at all the Pluton sank shortly after the start of the war.
Suffren was interned by the British after the fall of France and was never part of the Vichy forces
The cruisers listed for addition were part of the Vichy forces and should be included.
Jeanne d’Arc and Emile Bertin joined the Free French forces when Martinique did, on 3 June 1943. They could be deleted from the Vichy forces and added to the no cost Free French builds.

[Vulture]

And logged

[geoffreyg]

again very good but i would add that the richelieu (fully agree it should be an improved battleship) was laid down in october 35
quite agree it needn't be building but i feel that the french should have the relevant techs at that date
i'll do a separate post re italian battleships

[Vulture]

So which tech do they need?

[geoffreyg]

i think again in view of the overall very good analysis of mhitchens i will accept his views despite some minor disagreements

[Vulture]

LOL... Ok... Some of your changes do have been logged though.