Critical NA v1.03 flaws

swilhelm73 · 26-01-2003, 02:44

Tried to post this last night, but couldn't obviously - I presume Paradox got hit with the Code-Redesque virus last night.

Playing as Italy VH, aggressive, NA v1.03, I noticed the following;

1) AI garrison's human border and ignores more important threats.

I'm playing as Italy. When WWII starts I see about 30 French Divs on my border. No biggie, I have about as many. I figure the bulk of France's army is up by the Maginot line.

Germany finishes Poland and turns on France. At one point I look to see how Germany is doing to see France with 6 Divs in the Maginot line area, and Germany already into Colmar - with 2 Divs, so its not like they had some apocolyptic battle.

2) Return of the Finland retreat syndrome

Its very easy for motor/mech/armor units to get destroyed retreating, because the victors can easily outrace the retreating units. Without fuel they become incredbily slow. Well, when forced to retreat they are considered to be out of fuel (STUPID STUPID STUPID). In the same game, attacking and losing in one province in N Africa, the Brits got to the next province before my retreating troops could - causing them to be destroyed. I'm not just mad at the AI here, I noticed I can do the same think to it with regularity.

3) Let's have everyone join WWII!

Now, it was easier to get countries like N Spain or Argentina that weren't in WWII into it in v1.02. Now, it is laughably easy to get anyone in. In my current game, in Feb 1940, the French have persuaded the Turks to join, and are working on Switzerland.

4) The perfect air defense.

Very similar to the annoying perfect coastal defense. If the AI has an air unit in a province, you CANNOT tac bomb the province. You will intercept, win, and then your planes with forget about the whole tac bombing thing and go home. When 1 torpedo bomber stops your 12 tac bombers consistently the frustration level hits the roof.

5) But I'm not actually dead?!?!?

About 50% of the time I've seen troops forced to retreat, they get destroyed rather than retreat - note I'm NOT talking about encirclements here - these troops have somewhere they CAN retreat to - but they don't. At first I thought this was a connectedness problem - similarly to how there are a number of provinces one cannot trace supplies and/or oil though.

Axis_Alliance · 26-01-2003, 02:58

Only problems i see so far is bad supply. I played Italy first with 1.03 just to see how the big boys played. Well i sent 5 extra divisions to North Africa, and 5 more divisions to help out vs Etheopia (long voyage for my navy). My divisions started to lose org and men. So i add more convoys to africa. Semed to be alright, once they moved away from convot drop off area org started to drop so i added even more convoys. I have like 6 convoys going to africa to supply under 20 divisions. Doesnt seem right. Probably something i did wrong but im no rookie to this game. Ill give it a go again tonight and see.

**BiB** · 26-01-2003, 03:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Axis_Alliance
Only problems i see so far is bad supply. I played Italy first with 1.03 just to see how the big boys played. Well i sent 5 extra divisions to North Africa, and 5 more divisions to help out vs Etheopia (long voyage for my navy). My divisions started to lose org and men. So i add more convoys to africa. Semed to be alright, once they moved away from convot drop off area org started to drop so i added even more convoys. I have like 6 convoys going to africa to supply under 20 divisions. Doesnt seem right. Probably something i did wrong but im no rookie to this game. Ill give it a go again tonight and see.

Sounds weird, I manage just fine with just the one convoy. That area wouldn't happen to be a patchwork of control by several nations or so?

swilhelm73 · 26-01-2003, 03:28

Well, there does seem to be an issue with oil tranport in N Africa. I had to start an oil convoy to Barydah (sp?) to keep my units in that province, and east of it, in supply for oil - even though I kept the original convoy to Sirt and added oil delivery to it.

**BiB** · 26-01-2003, 03:30

Quote:

Originally posted by swilhelm73
Tried to post this last night, but couldn't obviously - I presume Paradox got hit with the Code-Redesque virus last night.

Playing as Italy VH, aggressive, NA v1.03, I noticed the following;

1) AI garrison's human border and ignores more important threats.

I'm playing as Italy. When WWII starts I see about 30 French Divs on my border. No biggie, I have about as many. I figure the bulk of France's army is up by the Maginot line.

Germany finishes Poland and turns on France. At one point I look to see how Germany is doing to see France with 6 Divs in the Maginot line area, and Germany already into Colmar - with 2 Divs, so its not like they had some apocolyptic battle.

2) Return of the Finland retreat syndrome

Its very easy for motor/mech/armor units to get destroyed retreating, because the victors can easily outrace the retreating units. Without fuel they become incredbily slow. Well, when forced to retreat they are considered to be out of fuel (STUPID STUPID STUPID). In the same game, attacking and losing in one province in N Africa, the Brits got to the next province before my retreating troops could - causing them to be destroyed. I'm not just mad at the AI here, I noticed I can do the same think to it with regularity.

3) Let's have everyone join WWII!

Now, it was easier to get countries like N Spain or Argentina that weren't in WWII into it in v1.02. Now, it is laughably easy to get anyone in. In my current game, in Feb 1940, the French have persuaded the Turks to join, and are working on Switzerland.

4) The perfect air defense.

Very similar to the annoying perfect coastal defense. If the AI has an air unit in a province, you CANNOT tac bomb the province. You will intercept, win, and then your planes with forget about the whole tac bombing thing and go home. When 1 torpedo bomber stops your 12 tac bombers consistently the frustration level hits the roof.

5) But I'm not actually dead?!?!?

About 50% of the time I've seen troops forced to retreat, they get destroyed rather than retreat - note I'm NOT talking about encirclements here - these troops have somewhere they CAN retreat to - but they don't. At first I thought this was a connectedness problem - similarly to how there are a number of provinces one cannot trace supplies and/or oil though.

Is that out of fuel thing mentioned in teh bug forum yet? otherwise, feel free to do so. They also shouldn't be out of supply but that doesn't have such possibly damning consequences.

Nations now actively go out and influence many others (there might very well be odd nations in tehre which should be tweaked) but tehre's also the counter-influence thing. IF u play the roel of Italy somewhat accurately there wouldn't be no Turkey or Switserland there. When I play the UK for instance I use DI at times to persuade Argentina to stay out and to make xure Japan doesn't join in too soon to help Russia.

That air thing sucks, feel free to come up with ideas on how to fix it. When a couple of prewar fighters can stop semimodern strategic bombing squadrons ...

There's been some retreat adjustments which are somewhat complicated but picture this situation where the French have an army group in Calais surrounded by Germans. Before it was possible to attack (u don't have to actually fight the battle) those Germans and retreat behind the encirclement one province further, now u are quite dead meat. This has consequences in otehr situatins though and u have to be much more careful to always have a way out. Say u are in Africa as Italian infantry and u meet a British panzer command and get beaten. U retreat to the provicne u came from. The British, faster as they are, arrive there first. When u get there too u get into battle and if u lose u are destroyed whereas before u just withdrew an extra province. Cut of and dead meat.

swilhelm73 · 26-01-2003, 04:10

Well, the issue with influence is how quickly it happens. Getting Turkey in the allies in 1943-4, fine. Convincing them to join the Allies in early 1940 though???

As for challenging the AI for diplomatic manuevers, yes I suppose you can. Since Turkey is democratic though, neither Germany nor Italy is too likely to successfully fend off French and British influence...

It should be difficult to get countries that didn't want to join WWII to do so, IMO. Sweden, Turkey, Switzerland, etc wanted no part in the war. Perhaps the effect of influence could be tweaked to differ for those countries that did really enter WWII because of diplomacy (Brazil, Bulgaria, Hungary, etc), and those that did not?

As for the 'perfect air defense', a few possible soultions;

1) Increase the str damage and decrease org damage for air combats. Something like the change made with naval combat for v1.03.

2) Force an air unit defeated in its airbase province into the force pool to represent the destruction of its air field and the need to rebuild it.

3) If on any mission other than intercept/patrol have a victorious air unit then proceed with its intended mission - tac/naval/strat bombing.

As for the retreat and you are dead issue, here ia a solution;

Multiply retreat speed by a factor of 4x to 10x, but have the retreat cost say 10 org. This way, no cheesy outrunning retreating units and no cheesy retreating out of an actual encirclement either. Further the retreating unit will need the time saved in the retreat to regain the org it just lost.

Volrath50 · 26-01-2003, 04:21

Quote:

Originally posted by swilhelm73

5) But I'm not actually dead?!?!?

About 50% of the time I've seen troops forced to retreat, they get destroyed rather than retreat - note I'm NOT talking about encirclements here - these troops have somewhere they CAN retreat to - but they don't. At first I thought this was a connectedness problem - similarly to how there are a number of provinces one cannot trace supplies and/or oil though.

I noticed that too. In my current game as South Africa, the British managed to defeat 7 Italian divisions in Libya, and they died instead of retreating to the next province back. That sucked, as then it was just a race to get to the Atlantic.

ZheShiWO · 26-01-2003, 04:56

I also noticed that Japan over runs China.

And another anoying thing that happend thrice now to me, WW2 doesnt start. I have to jump start it.

Case 1: German defeats the French etc etc, however because of their Italian allies they are at war with Greece. Because of the DOW the Germans dont DOW me. I dont wana get the 10% descent so I had to load the game as hungary and dOW the USSR and then switch back

Case 2: The Czechs say no in Munich agreement. The Germans say, lets not fight in response. So what happens ? No allied gurantee to Poland, Poland is finished in 3 days. Cold war ensues. Once again, had to load and DOW from an axis country.

And once again, China gets rocked by Japan. Even if I share techs with them and their units are as highly organized as French ones, 60 org, they get destroyed before 1939. It seems like China simply doesnt make any new troops.

FrEDa · 26-01-2003, 16:34

[quote]Originally posted by swilhelm73

It should be difficult to get countries that didn't want to join WWII to do so, IMO. Sweden, Turkey, Switzerland, etc wanted no part in the war. Perhaps the effect of influence could be tweaked to differ for those countries that did really enter WWII because of diplomacy (Brazil, Bulgaria, Hungary, etc), and those that did not?

Well, if the 'right' nations had heavily tried to influence one of these nations they could have joined. For example, Sweden was close to declaring war on SU when they attacked Finland, if the allied or axis had made a serious offer to support and help, they could have joined either I beleive. In other words , some 'actions' should increase War Entry for 3rd nations or something like that... or perhaps that's already in the event scripts..

JohnMK · 26-01-2003, 18:25

The interception and total nullification of bombers really pisses me off, to say the least. For the time being though just try to attack the province first with fighters, and get him to move his fighters outta there if possible before you bring in your tac & strategic bombers.

Dinsdale · 26-01-2003, 18:39

[quote]Originally posted by FrEDa

Quote:

Originally posted by swilhelm73

It should be difficult to get countries that didn't want to join WWII to do so, IMO. Sweden, Turkey, Switzerland, etc wanted no part in the war. Perhaps the effect of influence could be tweaked to differ for those countries that did really enter WWII because of diplomacy (Brazil, Bulgaria, Hungary, etc), and those that did not?

Well, if the 'right' nations had heavily tried to influence one of these nations they could have joined. For example, Sweden was close to declaring war on SU when they attacked Finland, if the allied or axis had made a serious offer to support and help, they could have joined either I beleive. In other words , some 'actions' should increase War Entry for 3rd nations or something like that... or perhaps that's already in the event scripts..

Well Britain and France tried everything they could in 1940 to get Sweden to allow the movement of men and material to Finland. I guess they just didn't hit the right die roll.

They key is balance, between it being too easy and too difficult to get other nations into the war. It's pretty obvious where the lack of balance is now. The war is like a UN party in 1939.

sbrengard · 26-01-2003, 18:55

Interception should be this easy:

Allow the bombers to 'push through' to the target.

A quick fight should erupt if fighters are around. Moderate 'strength' losses without escorts, light 'strength' losses with escorts.

AA should have a light effect on Strength, but heavy effect on Org.

Repeat until unit either reaches target (reduced effect due to losses) or retreats due to excessive losses (and then must retreat throught the same mess that caused the losses to begin with.

Hoo_Man · 27-01-2003, 10:33

one thing i've noticed is.....

germany is unloading the planes they constantly bomb the front non-stop and do not let me retreat at all....... i was playing as USA

germany steamrolled france, and russia..

So i land in spain, because they were apart of the axis nine, 12 division groups.... i capture all of spain

and when i get to france, germany is there, and they just brought hte pain

Non stop bombing, constantly, looks like i need to get some aa units in there too

It was mec/arm mixed groups, with one art, and one engineer div each, i was quickly slaughterd.... they bombed me untill i had no organization and i was easily slaughterd instantly by 1 cavalary divsion.

Dev · 27-01-2003, 10:55

You people bitching about annoying enemy air units preventing bomb runs need to stash a few figthers with your bombers.

It doesn't solve it but it does make it much less of an annoyance.

/dev

swilhelm73 · 27-01-2003, 10:58

Quote:

Originally posted by Dev
You people bitching about annoying enemy air units preventing bomb runs need to stash a few figthers with your bombers.

It doesn't solve it but it does make it much less of an annoyance.

/dev

No actually it doesn't. Your air units will not to enough str damage to kill the enemy air unit in any kind of reasonable amount of time - even with a couple of fighters.

husky65 · 27-01-2003, 13:27

The worst problem I've found in 1.03 is in research sharing - when countries give you techs that close out other techs eg MG tank, suddenly one of your generous allies has given it to you and locked you out of the ability to put a gun in your tanks.

The same sort of thing happens with a few of the Doctrine techs.

Best solution - allow you the option to decline the techs on offer.

Second best solution - don't offer techs that have a 'lock out' effect.

tank_buster · 27-01-2003, 13:30

I had to comment here.

In fairly later war as the US I had Bomber groups consisting of 6 improved strat bombers WITH 5 improved escort fighters (P51Ds). If I tried to bomb a province with ANY planes they would fight, defeat the Jerries easily, then head back to England with the bombs still on board.

Also, the Germans would intercept with a pitiful 1 or 2 planes at times, I would immmediately crush them, down to zero org, and about 20-30% strength loss. Then you guessed it, my bomber groups then turned around apparantly satisfied with their aerial victory.

I have had bombing runs stopped by single dive bombers before! This has to be fixed.

boromir · 27-01-2003, 13:33

Quote:

Originally posted by husky65
The worst problem I've found in 1.03 is in research sharing - when countries give you techs that close out other techs eg MG tank, suddenly one of your generous allies has given it to you and locked you out of the ability to put a gun in your tanks.

The same sort of thing happens with a few of the Doctrine techs.

Best solution - allow you the option to decline the techs on offer.

Second best solution - don't offer techs that have a 'lock out' effect.

Ouch

Another solution would be to disable the lockout for human players. After all, few humans would research different versions of a light tank anyway.

b.

unreliable · 27-01-2003, 16:08

Quote:

Originally posted by Axis_Alliance
Only problems i see so far is bad supply. I played Italy first with 1.03 just to see how the big boys played. Well i sent 5 extra divisions to North Africa, and 5 more divisions to help out vs Etheopia (long voyage for my navy). My divisions started to lose org and men. So i add more convoys to africa. Semed to be alright, once they moved away from convot drop off area org started to drop so i added even more convoys. I have like 6 convoys going to africa to supply under 20 divisions. Doesnt seem right. Probably something i did wrong but im no rookie to this game. Ill give it a go again tonight and see.

Are you at war with the owner of Suez province (UK)? Once you are at war with them, you are not allowed to trace supply to East Africa through the Suez (check your Manage Convoy screen, these convoys will be shown in red). This is actually a really cool feature, and made it critical for my Italian north African force to capture Suez.

hinkar · 27-01-2003, 16:18

Quote:

Originally posted by Dinsdale
Well Britain and France tried everything they could in 1940 to get Sweden to allow the movement of men and material to Finland. I guess they just didn't hit the right die roll.

But the Swedes did allow German troops through Sweden into Finland in 1941 so maybe the Germans got the right roll...

26-01-2003, 02:44	#1
swilhelm73 Strong Badder then You Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Newton, MA Posts: 3,532	Critical NA v1.03 flaws Tried to post this last night, but couldn't obviously - I presume Paradox got hit with the Code-Redesque virus last night. Playing as Italy VH, aggressive, NA v1.03, I noticed the following; 1) AI garrison's human border and ignores more important threats. I'm playing as Italy. When WWII starts I see about 30 French Divs on my border. No biggie, I have about as many. I figure the bulk of France's army is up by the Maginot line. Germany finishes Poland and turns on France. At one point I look to see how Germany is doing to see France with 6 Divs in the Maginot line area, and Germany already into Colmar - with 2 Divs, so its not like they had some apocolyptic battle. 2) Return of the Finland retreat syndrome Its very easy for motor/mech/armor units to get destroyed retreating, because the victors can easily outrace the retreating units. Without fuel they become incredbily slow. Well, when forced to retreat they are considered to be out of fuel (STUPID STUPID STUPID). In the same game, attacking and losing in one province in N Africa, the Brits got to the next province before my retreating troops could - causing them to be destroyed. I'm not just mad at the AI here, I noticed I can do the same think to it with regularity. 3) Let's have everyone join WWII! Now, it was easier to get countries like N Spain or Argentina that weren't in WWII into it in v1.02. Now, it is laughably easy to get anyone in. In my current game, in Feb 1940, the French have persuaded the Turks to join, and are working on Switzerland. 4) The perfect air defense. Very similar to the annoying perfect coastal defense. If the AI has an air unit in a province, you CANNOT tac bomb the province. You will intercept, win, and then your planes with forget about the whole tac bombing thing and go home. When 1 torpedo bomber stops your 12 tac bombers consistently the frustration level hits the roof. 5) But I'm not actually dead?!?!? About 50% of the time I've seen troops forced to retreat, they get destroyed rather than retreat - note I'm NOT talking about encirclements here - these troops have somewhere they CAN retreat to - but they don't. At first I thought this was a connectedness problem - similarly to how there are a number of provinces one cannot trace supplies and/or oil though. __________________ Early US Scenario for EU3 WCs:EUII France v1.05 1562/EUII Lorraine v1.06 1652/EUIII Portugal v1.01 1724/EUIII IN Portugal v3.1 1614 -- To regret religion is, in fact, to regret our civilization and its monuments, its achievements, and its legacy. --Theodore Dalrymple -- We don't need to win military victories, we only need to hit them until they give up and get out. --Ho Chi Minh

26-01-2003, 03:28	#4
swilhelm73 Strong Badder then You Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Newton, MA Posts: 3,532	Well, there does seem to be an issue with oil tranport in N Africa. I had to start an oil convoy to Barydah (sp?) to keep my units in that province, and east of it, in supply for oil - even though I kept the original convoy to Sirt and added oil delivery to it. __________________ Early US Scenario for EU3 WCs:EUII France v1.05 1562/EUII Lorraine v1.06 1652/EUIII Portugal v1.01 1724/EUIII IN Portugal v3.1 1614 -- To regret religion is, in fact, to regret our civilization and its monuments, its achievements, and its legacy. --Theodore Dalrymple -- We don't need to win military victories, we only need to hit them until they give up and get out. --Ho Chi Minh

26-01-2003, 04:10	#6
swilhelm73 Strong Badder then You Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Newton, MA Posts: 3,532	Re: Re: Critical NA v1.03 flaws Well, the issue with influence is how quickly it happens. Getting Turkey in the allies in 1943-4, fine. Convincing them to join the Allies in early 1940 though??? As for challenging the AI for diplomatic manuevers, yes I suppose you can. Since Turkey is democratic though, neither Germany nor Italy is too likely to successfully fend off French and British influence... It should be difficult to get countries that didn't want to join WWII to do so, IMO. Sweden, Turkey, Switzerland, etc wanted no part in the war. Perhaps the effect of influence could be tweaked to differ for those countries that did really enter WWII because of diplomacy (Brazil, Bulgaria, Hungary, etc), and those that did not? As for the 'perfect air defense', a few possible soultions; 1) Increase the str damage and decrease org damage for air combats. Something like the change made with naval combat for v1.03. 2) Force an air unit defeated in its airbase province into the force pool to represent the destruction of its air field and the need to rebuild it. 3) If on any mission other than intercept/patrol have a victorious air unit then proceed with its intended mission - tac/naval/strat bombing. As for the retreat and you are dead issue, here ia a solution; Multiply retreat speed by a factor of 4x to 10x, but have the retreat cost say 10 org. This way, no cheesy outrunning retreating units and no cheesy retreating out of an actual encirclement either. Further the retreating unit will need the time saved in the retreat to regain the org it just lost. __________________ Early US Scenario for EU3 WCs:EUII France v1.05 1562/EUII Lorraine v1.06 1652/EUIII Portugal v1.01 1724/EUIII IN Portugal v3.1 1614 -- To regret religion is, in fact, to regret our civilization and its monuments, its achievements, and its legacy. --Theodore Dalrymple -- We don't need to win military victories, we only need to hit them until they give up and get out. --Ho Chi Minh

26-01-2003, 16:34	#9
FrEDa Deus Vult Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Baylake.se Posts: 825	Re: Re: Re: Critical NA v1.03 flaws [quote]Originally posted by swilhelm73 It should be difficult to get countries that didn't want to join WWII to do so, IMO. Sweden, Turkey, Switzerland, etc wanted no part in the war. Perhaps the effect of influence could be tweaked to differ for those countries that did really enter WWII because of diplomacy (Brazil, Bulgaria, Hungary, etc), and those that did not? Well, if the 'right' nations had heavily tried to influence one of these nations they could have joined. For example, Sweden was close to declaring war on SU when they attacked Finland, if the allied or axis had made a serious offer to support and help, they could have joined either I beleive. In other words , some 'actions' should increase War Entry for 3rd nations or something like that... or perhaps that's already in the event scripts..

26-01-2003, 18:25	#10
JohnMK Fidei Defensor Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Seattle Posts: 4,737	The interception and total nullification of bombers really pisses me off, to say the least. For the time being though just try to attack the province first with fighters, and get him to move his fighters outta there if possible before you bring in your tac & strategic bombers. __________________ Friend(s): Everyone ICQ: 2538022; MSN: chs4000@hotmail.com; AIM: chs4000uw

26-01-2003, 02:58	#2
Axis_Alliance Second Lieutenant Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 113	Only problems i see so far is bad supply. I played Italy first with 1.03 just to see how the big boys played. Well i sent 5 extra divisions to North Africa, and 5 more divisions to help out vs Etheopia (long voyage for my navy). My divisions started to lose org and men. So i add more convoys to africa. Semed to be alright, once they moved away from convot drop off area org started to drop so i added even more convoys. I have like 6 convoys going to africa to supply under 20 divisions. Doesnt seem right. Probably something i did wrong but im no rookie to this game. Ill give it a go again tonight and see.

26-01-2003, 04:56	#8
ZheShiWO Banned Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 1,108	I also noticed that Japan over runs China. And another anoying thing that happend thrice now to me, WW2 doesnt start. I have to jump start it. Case 1: German defeats the French etc etc, however because of their Italian allies they are at war with Greece. Because of the DOW the Germans dont DOW me. I dont wana get the 10% descent so I had to load the game as hungary and dOW the USSR and then switch back Case 2: The Czechs say no in Munich agreement. The Germans say, lets not fight in response. So what happens ? No allied gurantee to Poland, Poland is finished in 3 days. Cold war ensues. Once again, had to load and DOW from an axis country. And once again, China gets rocked by Japan. Even if I share techs with them and their units are as highly organized as French ones, 60 org, they get destroyed before 1939. It seems like China simply doesnt make any new troops.

26-01-2003, 18:55	#12
sbrengard Paratrooper Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Melbourne, FL USA Posts: 555	Interception should be this easy: Allow the bombers to 'push through' to the target. A quick fight should erupt if fighters are around. Moderate 'strength' losses without escorts, light 'strength' losses with escorts. AA should have a light effect on Strength, but heavy effect on Org. Repeat until unit either reaches target (reduced effect due to losses) or retreats due to excessive losses (and then must retreat throught the same mess that caused the losses to begin with.

27-01-2003, 10:33	#13
Hoo_Man Second Lieutenant Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Shanghai, China Posts: 121	one thing i've noticed is..... germany is unloading the planes they constantly bomb the front non-stop and do not let me retreat at all....... i was playing as USA germany steamrolled france, and russia.. So i land in spain, because they were apart of the axis nine, 12 division groups.... i capture all of spain and when i get to france, germany is there, and they just brought hte pain Non stop bombing, constantly, looks like i need to get some aa units in there too It was mec/arm mixed groups, with one art, and one engineer div each, i was quickly slaughterd.... they bombed me untill i had no organization and i was easily slaughterd instantly by 1 cavalary divsion. __________________ He who controls the past conquers the future.

27-01-2003, 10:55	#14
Dev ~ Join Date: Jul 2001 Posts: 788	You people bitching about annoying enemy air units preventing bomb runs need to stash a few figthers with your bombers. It doesn't solve it but it does make it much less of an annoyance. /dev

27-01-2003, 13:27	#16
husky65 First Lieutenant Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Australia Posts: 214	Research Sharing The worst problem I've found in 1.03 is in research sharing - when countries give you techs that close out other techs eg MG tank, suddenly one of your generous allies has given it to you and locked you out of the ability to put a gun in your tanks. The same sort of thing happens with a few of the Doctrine techs. Best solution - allow you the option to decline the techs on offer. Second best solution - don't offer techs that have a 'lock out' effect. __________________ That which does not kill me simply postpones the inevitable.

27-01-2003, 13:30	#17
tank_buster First Lieutenant Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Northern VA, USA Posts: 212	I had to comment here. In fairly later war as the US I had Bomber groups consisting of 6 improved strat bombers WITH 5 improved escort fighters (P51Ds). If I tried to bomb a province with ANY planes they would fight, defeat the Jerries easily, then head back to England with the bombs still on board. Also, the Germans would intercept with a pitiful 1 or 2 planes at times, I would immmediately crush them, down to zero org, and about 20-30% strength loss. Then you guessed it, my bomber groups then turned around apparantly satisfied with their aerial victory. I have had bombing runs stopped by single dive bombers before! This has to be fixed. __________________ ----------------------------- Feedback from the environment is essential to rapid evolution. Sudden, violent death is a highly effective and time-proven form of negative feedback.