A strategic dilemna

TMahon · 15-01-2003, 22:02

Playing as Japan (Bolted 1.02, very hard/aggressive), I've conquered China and now have easily swallowed up Burma and Indochina. Thailand is fascist, and while I could declare war on them I've avoided doing so for both historical and logistical reasons.

But now I'm faced with a quandry. I've tried to force a landing in Malaya to take Singapore, but the historic site of the Japanese invasion at Kota Bharu does not have any beaches in HoI (!). See for yourself on the map, the only way to take Singapore is to attack headlong off the beaches against dug-in and fortified troops.

To complicate matters, not only does the game omit the necessary beach in Kota Bharu, but it of course won't let me bomb the British fleet in port in Singapore. So they can sortie any time they want, disrupt my landings (it resets my "unload troops" order and I have to start over) even though I'm pounding the few cruisers they have with the Japanese Combined Fleet and all my battleships.

The bottom line is that there is no quick way for me to take Singapore. Against all my best sense of good operations, I'm forced to engage in a drawn-out battle of attrition and try to sieze some of the islands close by to post up my air power. But unless I can ultimately eliminate the British fleet, there's no way for me to conduct an assault short of getting military access through Thailand (they've refused me 4 times so far) or declaring war on them.

Any ideas? Frontal assaults and battles of attrition rankle me. They are the tactics of amateurs. Besides, I need to be finished with the Indies before the start of 1941 so I can sweep through the Phillipines, Guam, Hawaii, and perhaps India.

T.

Emerson · 15-01-2003, 22:20

In playing Japan (1.02/Bolt), I always take Thailand first by an amphib assault on Bangkock before I'm at war with the allies (it is Thailand's only prov w/ victory points so once you take it, you annex the whole country - this also puts you in a very good strategic position to take Singapore easily and encircle the Brit units in the Burma/East India area).

Holger Danske · 15-01-2003, 22:21

TMahon

I think you are quite right. I also like conquer my enemies with tactics and "cleverness" instead of brute force.
In this case it must be a "map bug" Maybe you should post it there.

TMahon · 15-01-2003, 22:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Holger Danske
TMahon

I think you are quite right. I also like conquer my enemies with tactics and "cleverness" instead of brute force.
In this case it must be a "map bug" Maybe you should post it there.

I did. But I'm not convinced it will see any results, as there are much more pressing bugs to be fixed.

I suppose there's nothing left for it but to take on the Thais, but I can't say I'm happy about the solution. A combination of fundamental flaws (bombing fleets in port, lack of historic beach location) have forced me to deviate from what was once a very workable plan. I don't like having to make illogical decisions when the lives of thousands of my nation's virtual soldiers are on the line

T.

Sheridan · 15-01-2003, 22:35

Until the map bug gets fixed...

You might be able to use paratroopers, though I am not sure Japan normally has any air bases within range. Also, it kinda sucks to have to build paratroopers for an amphibious invasion....

Alternatively you could send a massive fleet and pin down the British navies, but this is also ahistorical as this invasion was carried out within the same week as Pearl Harbor.

Grondus · 15-01-2003, 22:36

To do the direct assault on Singapore - Put your main battle fleet in the sea zone on the eastern side of Singapore, then place your transports in the sea zone on the western side (lead with your battle fleet then move your transports to the west side). This should then pin the UK fleet in Singapore's port so they cannot disrupt your transports from letting you land.

Yes you still have to directly assault the fortified coastal province, but if you land with 6 to 8 tranports full of mech/marine/etc units you will most likely take out the (usually) single defender of the province. It really isn't that hard I usually lose very little in troop strength when I take it.

BTW - I don't like the setup either

G'Kar · 15-01-2003, 23:09

Quote:

Originally posted by TMahon
...
But now I'm faced with a quandry. I've tried to force a landing in Malaya to take Singapore, but the historic site of the Japanese invasion at Kota Bharu does not have any beaches in HoI (!). See for yourself on the map, the only way to take Singapore is to attack headlong off the beaches against dug-in and fortified troops.

To complicate matters, not only does the game omit the necessary beach in Kota Bharu, but it of course won't let me bomb the British fleet in port in Singapore. So they can sortie any time they want, disrupt my landings (it resets my "unload troops" order and I have to start over) even though I'm pounding the few cruisers they have with the Japanese Combined Fleet and all my battleships.
...

In fact, I don't quite understand the system of beaches in HoI anyway: I think in reality it's geographically possible to land in MOST provinces of the HoI-Worldmap - they should be large enough to land a division at least somewhere in the region. I once added beaches to many provinces in Indonesia and this helped the japanese AI a bit.
The lack of so many beaches must be for gameplaying and balancing reasons: To make it harder to do an invasion and not to consume too many AI troops sitting in the sunshine on the beach, watching the ocean attentively - while the Sowjetunion or anybody else is storming across the continent...

(the "front AI and the islands" problem comes to mind)

RedKetchup · 15-01-2003, 23:11

Had a similar situation...send 10div of marines...to my surprise,singapore was guard by 1inf and 1tac...no blood,no sweat...while the general was quite happy...the player was a bit disappointed.

Johan · 16-01-2003, 12:24

1.03 will feature a beach in Kota Baharu.

RedKetchup · 16-01-2003, 12:38

Thanx for the info.

Generalisimo · 16-01-2003, 13:02

ask for military access to Siam, and attack by land

that's what i did in my game

Siegebreaker · 16-01-2003, 16:54

When can we expect to have the 1.03?

Kashluk · 16-01-2003, 18:09

Just declare war against everyone in Asia (except USSR, you can kick their ass later) and you'll end up like this:

15-01-2003, 22:02	#1
TMahon Major Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Somewhere over the rainbow Posts: 599	A strategic dilemna Playing as Japan (Bolted 1.02, very hard/aggressive), I've conquered China and now have easily swallowed up Burma and Indochina. Thailand is fascist, and while I could declare war on them I've avoided doing so for both historical and logistical reasons. But now I'm faced with a quandry. I've tried to force a landing in Malaya to take Singapore, but the historic site of the Japanese invasion at Kota Bharu does not have any beaches in HoI (!). See for yourself on the map, the only way to take Singapore is to attack headlong off the beaches against dug-in and fortified troops. To complicate matters, not only does the game omit the necessary beach in Kota Bharu, but it of course won't let me bomb the British fleet in port in Singapore. So they can sortie any time they want, disrupt my landings (it resets my "unload troops" order and I have to start over) even though I'm pounding the few cruisers they have with the Japanese Combined Fleet and all my battleships. The bottom line is that there is no quick way for me to take Singapore. Against all my best sense of good operations, I'm forced to engage in a drawn-out battle of attrition and try to sieze some of the islands close by to post up my air power. But unless I can ultimately eliminate the British fleet, there's no way for me to conduct an assault short of getting military access through Thailand (they've refused me 4 times so far) or declaring war on them. Any ideas? Frontal assaults and battles of attrition rankle me. They are the tactics of amateurs. Besides, I need to be finished with the Indies before the start of 1941 so I can sweep through the Phillipines, Guam, Hawaii, and perhaps India. T. __________________ *"What was gunpowder? Trivial. What was electricity? Meaningless. This Atomic Bomb is the Second Coming in Wrath!"* - Winston Churchill, July 1945

15-01-2003, 22:21	#3
Holger Danske Sleeping Hero Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Odense, Denmark Posts: 201	TMahon I think you are quite right. I also like conquer my enemies with tactics and "cleverness" instead of brute force. In this case it must be a "map bug" Maybe you should post it there. __________________ Drawing people with bombs on the head. And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat upon him was Death, and Hell followed with him. Revelations, 6:8

15-01-2003, 22:35	#5
Sheridan Congressman from California Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: The Continental Congress Posts: 4,592	Until the map bug gets fixed... You might be able to use paratroopers, though I am not sure Japan normally has any air bases within range. Also, it kinda sucks to have to build paratroopers for an amphibious invasion.... Alternatively you could send a massive fleet and pin down the British navies, but this is also ahistorical as this invasion was carried out within the same week as Pearl Harbor. __________________ Sunshine patriot - Southern California sunshine, that is... plays EU2, CK, and Rome, and occasionally dusts off HOI, HOI2 or Victoria Sheridan's EU2 France 1419 Strategy Guide (outdated but still useful in concept)

15-01-2003, 23:11	#8
RedKetchup Major Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Salaberry, Qc, Ca Posts: 632	Had a similar situation...send 10div of marines...to my surprise,singapore was guard by 1inf and 1tac...no blood,no sweat...while the general was quite happy...the player was a bit disappointed. __________________ Because life is short but sweet for certain...

16-01-2003, 12:24	#9
Johan The Master Paradox Dev Team Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Always two there are... Posts: 12,564	1.03 will feature a beach in Kota Baharu. __________________ Johan Andersson Wizard "A patch is never late! Nor is it ever early. It arrives precisely when I mean it to do!"

15-01-2003, 22:20	#2
Emerson First Lieutenant Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 221	In playing Japan (1.02/Bolt), I always take Thailand first by an amphib assault on Bangkock before I'm at war with the allies (it is Thailand's only prov w/ victory points so once you take it, you annex the whole country - this also puts you in a very good strategic position to take Singapore easily and encircle the Brit units in the Burma/East India area).

15-01-2003, 22:36	#6
Grondus Corporal Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 38	To do the direct assault on Singapore - Put your main battle fleet in the sea zone on the eastern side of Singapore, then place your transports in the sea zone on the western side (lead with your battle fleet then move your transports to the west side). This should then pin the UK fleet in Singapore's port so they cannot disrupt your transports from letting you land. Yes you still have to directly assault the fortified coastal province, but if you land with 6 to 8 tranports full of mech/marine/etc units you will most likely take out the (usually) single defender of the province. It really isn't that hard I usually lose very little in troop strength when I take it. BTW - I don't like the setup either

16-01-2003, 12:38	#10
RedKetchup Major Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Salaberry, Qc, Ca Posts: 632	Thanx for the info. __________________ Because life is short but sweet for certain...

16-01-2003, 13:02	#11
Generalisimo Fredericus Rex Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Ciudad Autónoma de Buenos Aires. Argentina Posts: 9,176	ask for military access to Siam, and attack by land that's what i did in my game __________________ HoI-AAR Socialist Federative Republic of Yugoslavia 1936-1942 Vicky-AAR En búsqueda de la unificación - Una AAR italiana Football Manager: La AAR chaquetera oficial FM 2007, FM 2008 AGEOD Facebook Fanpage - news & screenshots about the upcoming games! Rise of Prussia (Q1 2010) - AGEOD forum - Paradox forum

16-01-2003, 16:54	#12
Siegebreaker Major Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: From Israel, Land Of Heroes, Stronghold Of Freedom. Posts: 728	When can we expect to have the 1.03? __________________ "Money is the sword of the coward". Ben Iosef, Tammuz 5762. "Let them be brave. Their bravery will deliver them right into our gunsights". R.B.Yefu, Tevet 5764.

16-01-2003, 18:09	#13
Kashluk Corporal Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kiuruvesi, Finland Posts: 34	Just declare war against everyone in Asia (except USSR, you can kick their ass later) and you'll end up like this: __________________ Duck And Cover - storming the gates of Fallout since 2077