Italian Wars

[Isaac Brock]

I wanted to start a thread on the way the Italian Wars are handled in the EEP, and particularly on the triggers. As background here's a summary of the back and forth in real life:

The Italian Wars (1494-1553)

Series of wars (chiefly between France and Spain) for control of the small Italian states.

Underlying Causes. The small independant states of Italy were militarily weak, and had the misfortune to be located near several powerful nations.

Charles of France Invades Italy. Charles VIII allies with Milan and invades Italy (1494), taking Naples (1495). He is opposed by a coalition (the Pope, Holy Roman Emperor, Spain, Venice, and -- changing sides -- Milan). Ferrandino of Naples retakes the city following the Battle of Fornovo. Charles' fleet is captured at Rapallo, his army surrenders at Novaro, and he flees to France. The soldiers suffer from Europe's first known outbreak of syphilis.

In 1498, Charles VIII dies while preparing a new invasion force. He is succeeded by his cousin, who rules as Louis XII.

Louis of France Invades Italy. Louis XII allies with Venice, invades Italy (1499), and accepts the surrender of his former ally, Milan. Ludovico of Milan attempts to liberate his city, but is defeated at the Battle of Novara (1500) and imprisoned. Ferdinand of Spain aids Louis, who conquers the Kingdom of Naples (1501). Rome is occupied, and the Pope acknowledges Louis as King of Naples. German king Maximilian signs the Peace of Trent, recognizing French conquests. In 1502, Ferdinand of Spain sends a fleet to seize Taranto, supporting Louis.

France and Spain Split Italy. The alliance between Ferdinand and Louis is broken (1503). Ferdinand?s general Gonzalvo de Cordoba defeats the French, and Louis gives up all claims to Naples. The French army surrenders at Gaeta (1504). The Treaty of Lyons (1504) divides Italy between France (north) and Spain (south). Louis and Maximilian sign the Treaty of Blois (1504), which gives France control of Milan.

Germans Spar With The Venetians. Maximilian sets out for Rome, but the Venetians refuse to let him pass. The Germans attack (1508), but the fighting is called off when Maximilian receives protests.

The Pope's League Against Venice. Pope Julius II forms the Holy League of Cambrai (1508), uniting with France and Spain to regain papal territory on the Adriatic lost to Venice. He excommunicates Venice (1509), and the French defeat the Venetians at the Battle of Agnadello (1509). Maximilian joins the League, but fails in his siege of Padua.

The Pope Turns On France. The Pope forms a new Holy League (1510) with England, Spain, and the Swiss to expel the French from Italy. In 1511, the French gain Bologna, but lose Modena and Mirandola. Venice, no longer excommunicate, allies with the Pope. In the Battle of Ravenna (1512) the French are triumphant, as is their commander Pierre Terrail, seigneur de Bayard,at Brescia. However, Swiss, papal, and imperial forces drive the French and their mercenaries out of Milan. As compensation for their aid, theSwiss take Locarno, Lugano and Ossola. In an hour-long battle, the Swiss rout a combined French and Venetian army at the Battle of Novara (1513). The English and Germans defeat the French at Guinegate, also known as the Battle of the Spurs (1513) because of the manner in which the French depart the field of battle. Thus ends Louis' Italian adventures.

In 1513 Pope Julius II dies, and the Holy League is disbanded. In 1515, Louis XII dies and is succeeded by Frances I (Francois I).

Frances of France Invades Italy. The Battle of Marignano (1515) is a French triumph versus the Swiss and Venetians. The Pope and the Swiss make peace with Frances. France conquer Milan.

War With the Empire. In 1519, Holy Roman Emperor Maximilian I dies. His successor is Charles V, who by virtue of his inheritances now unites a vast Hapsburg empire (including Spain, Austria, Naples, Sicily, the Low Countries, and Spanish America). In 1520, a league of Spanish cities (the communeros) rebels against Charles and receive French support. Charles puts down the uprising. In 1522, Charles and his allies (the Pope, Mantua, and Florence) expel France from Milan. The French retake Milan in 1524, but at the Battle of Pavia (1525) the king's horse is shot out from under him and he is captured. While a prisoner, Frances signs the Treaty of Madrid (1526), renouncing his claims in Italy (and elsewhere).

France Forms A League. Once freed, Frances claims that the treaty was extorted from him. He forms an alliance (the League of Cognac) with the Pope, England, Venice and Florence. In retaliation, Charles V sacks Rome (1527) and takes the Pope prisoner. The French lay siege to Naples (1528), but a severe typhus epidemic forces the besiegers to retreat. The wars ends with the Peace of Cambrai (1529), in which Frances once again gives up all claims to Italy.

Frances' Third Italian War. Francesco of Milan dies (1535), ending the Sforza dynasty. Frances again claims Milan, allying with Suleiman the Magnificent (ruler of the Ottoman Empire). The French take Turin (1536), aided by Turkish fleets ravaging the Italian coast. The allies besiege Corfu (1537), which is successfully defended by the Venetians. The war ends inconclusively with the Truce of Nice (1538), followed by the Treaty of Toledo (1539).

The Sacking of Nice. In 1543, Frances sacks the imperial city of Nice with the aid of a Berber pirate, Kheir ad-Din Barbarossa. After two years of war, the Treaty of Crespy-en-Valois (1544) is signed in which Frances gives up claims to Italian territory. This is followed by the Peace of Andres (1546). Frances dies in 1547.

Henry of France Invades Italy. Henry II's army attacks Florence, but is defeated at the Battle of Marciano (1553). The French besiege Siena, but are forced to surrender by an imperial army (1555). The Spanish are victorious at the Battle of St. Quentin, driving the French from Italy. The war ends with the Treaty of Cateau-Cambresis (1559). While celebrating the treaty at a tournament, Henry II receives a mortal head wound (as foretold by Nostradamus).

Consequences of the Wars: Italy loses its independence, and is dominated by Spain for nearly two centuries.

[Isaac Brock]

Here's a general summary of all the events that are in EEP 1.2. Let me know if I've missed any. I'm trying to lay out the sequence rather than detail all the effects.

I. 1494 Angevin claims on Naples
France can choose to press claims and get shilds on Naples and Apulia if Naples exists. If France presses claims Naples can reject or accept them. If they accept the France inherits Naples

II. 1495-1499 Civil War in Savoy
If France pressed claims on Naples or Milan bad things happen in Savoy

III. 1496- Anti French Alliance
If France pressed claims on Naples Aragon or Spain (if Aragon doesn't exist) can from an alliance with Austria, Venice and get a CB on France. The alliance only happens if Austria and Venice are unallied and Aragon or Spain is an alliance leader (unlikely).

IV: 1497- Unhappiness with Louis XII
If France owns Milan Mantua Modena or Genoa Switzerland can get a CB against France

V: 1499 Claims on Milan
If Milan exists France can press claims gaining a core in Milan and triggering a Papal event that boosts relations.

VI: 1503-1509 League of Cambrai
If Venice doesn't own Romagna can gain a core on it.
If Venice took the aggressive approach, France and Austria get the chance to start the League of Cambrai. If neither supports it, or the only one that exisits doesn't support it the League doesn't come off. If it does come off events happen for Aragon, the Papacy, Tuscany, Spain if Aragon doens't exist, and England if France doesn't exist. Everyone can support or oppose it, all those who support get a CB on Venice
If the League comes off Venice has to back down and loses the core in Romagna.

VII: 1510-1512 - Holy League
If France exists and pressed claims on rither Milan or Naples, and the League of Cambrai either didn't fail to happen or couldn't have happened the Pope can start the Holy League and get a CB against France.
If the Pope starts it Austria, Aragon, England Venice Switzerland and Spain if Aragon doesn't exisit can get CBs on France

VIII 1512 French withdrawal from Milan
If France pressed claims on Milan and owns Milan it can release Milan as a vassal or suffer all sorts of nastiness there.

IX 1513-1539 13 Cantons
If Switzerland is at peace it gets bonuses from absorbing more cantons. This triggers an event for Savoy where it gets penalties for losing territory to Swiitzerland and a long CB against Switzerland

X 1521- French Meddling
If France pressed claims on Naples and Milan, and Austria and France exisit Spain can form an alliance with Austria and get a CB on France. The alliance will only happen if Austria is unallied and Spain is an alliance leader.
If Spain choses to intervene, HAB exisits, and a war between Spain and France occurs, France gets the Battle of Pavia event in 1525 with bad effects.

XI 1527 Sack of Rome
If France pressed claims on Milan or Naples the Pope gets the Sack of Rome causing bad things and triggering events for Austria and Spain hurting their relations. If either of these Happen Tuscany has the option to form a republic in 1527.

XII 1529 Peace of Cambrai
If France owns neither Milan nor Naples, and Spain chose to intervene in 'French Meddling', France can choose to give up all Italian cores, or to keep them (stab and some other effects)
XIIA 1535 Peace in Milan
If France does own Milan, had the 'withdraw from Milan event' and did not have the Peace of Cambrai the revoltrisk in Milan is reduced.

XIII 1534-1540 Genevan Independence
IF the Sack of Rome and Swiss expansion happened Savoy gets bad effects as they lose Geneva.

XVII 1559 Treaty of Cateau Cambresis
If France has innovative below 5 and owns neither Milan nor Naples they can give up their cores or suffer some stability.

[Isaac Brock]

More detail on the event numbers and such so they can be referenced

I: 1 Jan 1494 (Claims on Naples)
FRA 12021 IF Naples exists
A addcore Naples and Apulia trigger 12022
B nothing
NAP 12022
A nothing
B trigger 12023
FRA 12023
A inherit NAP
___________________
II 1 Jan 1495
SAV 17409 IF event 12022 OR event 17386
A stab and revolt risk
_____________________
IIIA 1 Jan 1496
ARG 12144 IF event 12022
A alliance HAB VEN CB FRA
B nothing
IIIB 1 Jan 1496
SPA 12143 IF event 12022 and not exisits ARG
A alliance HAB VEN CB FRA
B nothing
____________________
IV 1 dec 1497 (unhappiness with Louis XII)
HEL 20302 IF own Milan, Mantua, Modena or Genoa
A CB FRA
B-
________________________
V: 1 Jan 1499 (Claims on Milan)
FRA 12024 IF Louis XII king, Milan exists
A add core Milan trigger 17386
B sleep 12025 12026
PAP 17386
A relations FRA +100
_____________________________
VI 13 aug 1503 (seeing a great chance)
VEN 17017 IF not owned Romagna
A addcore Romagna
B sleep events 3107 3182 3545 3649 20093 17018 17019 17020 17023

VI 1 Oct 1503 (League of Cambrai)
FRA 3107 IF event 17017 exists = VEN exists = HAB
A CB VEN, trigger 17021
B trigger 17022
C trigger 17022
VIA
HAB 17021
A CB VEN
B,C
VIB
HAB 17022
A CB VEN
B,C sleep 17018
VIC
HAB 3182 IF exists VEN, event 17017 not event 3107
A CB VEN
B,C sleep 17018
VID
FRA 17023 IF exists=VEN event 17017 HAB doesn't exist
A CB Ven
B,C sleep 17018
VI 1 Oct 1503 (more League of Cambrai events)
SPA 17020 PAP 3545 TOS 3649 ENG 20093 ARG 17019
IF exists VEN event 17017 (NOT ARG exisits for SPA)

VI 15 May 1509 (Realizing great danger)
VEN 17018 IF event 17017 any of 3107 3182 17023
A removecore Romagna
________________________
VII 1 July 1510 (Holy League)
PAP 17024 IF FRA exisits, event 17386 or 12022 NOT (FRA and HAB didn't support Cambrai)
A CB FRA
B sleep 17025 17026 17027 17028 17029 17030
VII 1 July 1510 (more Holy League)
HAB 17025 ARG 17026 SPA 17027 VEN 17028 ENG 17029 HEL 17030 IF event 17024 (NOT ARG for SPA)
A CB FRA
B -
____________________
VIII: 1 Jan 1512 (Withdraw from Milan)
FRA 12025 IF FRA owns Milan, Milan doesn't exist and event 17386
A independence to Milan (CB?)
B revolts and +50 RR in Milan (what!)
_______________________________
IX 1 Jan 1513 (13 cantons)
HEL 20307 IF no war, event 100
A trigger 17413
SAV 17413 (Swiss expansion)
A CB HEL
_________________
X 1 Jan 1521(French Meddling)
SPA 12026 IF exists FRA, HAB, events 12022, 12024, 17386
A Alliance HAB CB FRA
B sleep 12027 12028
1 Jan 1525 (Pavia)
FRA 12027 IF War SPA/FRA, exists HAB exists SPA event 12026 (no death date)
A -cash and stability
___________________
XI 1 Jan 1527 (Sack of Rome)
PAP 17406 IF 17386 or 12022
A trigger 17407 17408
SPA 17407 and HAB 17408
17 May 1527
TOS 17381 IF HAB 17408 or SPA 17407
A,B nothing of consequence

____________________
XIIA 1 Jan 1529 (Peace of Cambrai)
FRA 12028 IF don't own Milan, don't own Naples, and event 12026
A revoltrisk Milan -15, remove cores Apulia Milan Naples
B revoltrisk Milan -15
_______________________
XIIB 1 Jan 1535 (Peace in Milan)
FRA 12029 IF own Milan, event 12025, NOT event 12028
_________
XIII 1 jan 1534 (Genevan independence)
SAV 17414 IF event 17406 and event 17413
A-
________
XIV 1 Jan 1559 (Cateau Cambresis)
FRA 12037 IF NOT innovative 5, don't own either Milan or Naples
A remove cores Milan Apulia Naples
B -1 stab

[Isaac Brock]

-Most of these events hinge on Naples exisiting in 1495- if it doesn't most of the events will be aborted. I don't think this makes much sense as the Angevin claim to Naples went back to the civil war in 1435 - certanly if Naples were part of Spain or Aragon the event should happen. That said, in 1495 Italy was ripe for the picking, if it hadn't been Charles VIII it would have been someone else. On the other hand it would be nice to start that event with Milan, for flavour reasons.
-Likewise if Milan doesn't exist in 1499 nothing much will happen.
-A lot of what's in is focused around France, as much of it came from ******'s work. The Spanish and Austrians seem neglected. The Meddling in Italy event doesn't do much for Spain.
-Generally the anti-French alliances are unlikely to form. Perhaps they coudl eb reworked
-I'd like to see AI Aragon take over Naples, or at least try to. I'm thinkign about adding some cored for the treaty of Granada.
-The sack of Rome is pretty deterministic right now. I'd like it to happen because it drives other events for Tuscany, and because it's great flavor and was an important happening. The triggers need a bit of work though.
-There is a big issue of how to handle Aragon and Spain who ought to merge mid-way through the events. Right now the 1521 meddling event is there for that but it doesn't do very much.


For now I just wanted to start discussion. I'll make some proposals once people have chimed in.

[loseth]

Erm...um...actually I'm too busy to contribute anything useful at all to this discussion, and, well...I don't really have anything of value to say in this post. Basically, I just wanted to compliment you on your historical nit-pickiness and logical approach. The angelic is in the details.

[Twoflower]

Maybe spanish involvement in the italian wars could be made more historical by having Aragon secede all its italian possessions to spain in 1477 - I don't believe that Aragon as a spanish vassal will ever be able to play the role it played historically in the matter.

[Isaac Brock]

Especially as they don't get Colonna - El Grande Capitane, who did all the conquering in real life. Still, Spanish involvement in Italy was almost entirely an Aragonese affair, so I'm reluctant to turn Italy over to Spain so early. It's an interesting idea though.

[Twoflower]

This is maybe not entirely historical, but since it was the same empire after all, a historical outcome should have precedence in this case (I'm perfectly aware of the fact that I am in some way contradicting my statements in the Austria thread).
Another approach could be to simply not vassalise Aragon in 1477 and to give them the Gran Capitan - but this could cause Fernando to do weird stuff like allying and even fighting against himself, and Aragon will probably still be weaker than Spain (and we obviously need a strong opponent for France).

[Isaac Brock]

I don't disagree with you I'm just not sure that we'll ever get Spain to get involved in Italy. What I'm thinking of right now is having something around 1501 for Aragon to try to get them involved (and the new Aragon AI should be more Italian focused, which is another reason to keep them seperate). This would be to represent the treaty of Grananda whereby Louis XII and Ferdinand the Catholic partitioned Naples, and then possibly something a few years later to represent the breaking of that treaty. Spain would then get something big around 1520 to encourage them to involve themselves in Italy(when they inherit Aragon). At some point Austria needs more icnentive too.

On the other hand, we all know how often Charles VIII invades Naples, so I don't expect to be able to get the AI to do too much.