That ONE new casus belli we might need...

arbiter6 · 18-01-2010, 17:34

So, as I was playing a European game and later on, a south-eastern one, and i realised that MAYBE the casus-belli system lacked one that is based on a bit more of an abstract subject.

I call it : Historical differences CB

Anytime a nation is regularly and for extended periods of times at war with you, the sheer hatred and the habit itself should suffice to provide a reason for war.

I'm thinking for exemple about the age-old Franco-English (then Franco-British rivalry) or the lithuanian-russian one. Or about any two great imperialistic powers sharing a common frontier.

After 200 years of quasi constant warfare, you'd think, just like core provinces, that the main archenemy of a country would be decided and no CB would be needed.

I'm not saying it should take 200 years, but perhaps, a number of wars within a period of time (6 in a 50year period for exemple) would grant a 25 year long, permanent CB (which itself could be renewed but needing only 2 wars in that period).

The actual CB system is great, but once you have retaken your land from your enemy you are left with "moral" CBs like trade or religious ones.

Whatever happens to revenge then ? How many wars were started for just that reason ?

What do you think ?

Reinisable · 18-01-2010, 18:01

I don't think it's necessary, because nations that you've had a lot of wars before will distrust you and such nations will often try take all of their chances to weaken you and gaining a casus-belli is quite easy with the new system.

ve3609 · 18-01-2010, 18:06

nah. Because after 100 years or so of peace most nations stop being mortal enemies. RE: US and GB, GB and France, France and Germany

Shackel · 18-01-2010, 18:21

I think France hated Germany since its(Germany's) birth.
--
I think a certain amount of discovered spy attacks should give you a CB, as well.

GAGA Extrem · 18-01-2010, 18:45

Well, germany is rather young - so that has nothing to do with EU3.

Anyhow, later you get imperialistic CBs. And you can easily DOW heathens. A distrust CB is not necessary. Although we could use a "humilate" peace option like in Ricky.

Pauss · 18-01-2010, 19:53

balkan tribes come to mind

neverending casus belli

morris0n · 18-01-2010, 23:56

when someone warns you that should warrant a CB as well

Blastaz · 19-01-2010, 00:38

Yeah not being able to warn them back is just cruel!

I think its a good idea. The only problem being if you go to war with someone for three or four times, there's generally not much of them left.

Twilight · 19-01-2010, 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shackel

I think France hated Germany since its(France's) birth.

Well, no more than it would have hated anyone else who became such a huge power just down the road. I'd say 'concerned about' rather than hated.

If France was going to have this CB on anyone, it would be Austria & England (historically).

Pauss · 19-01-2010, 01:29

hm. maybe then a 'remove threat CB'?
every country has a 'feels threatened by' in its description so that could be used.

Shackel · 19-01-2010, 02:20

Yes, but due to the dogpileish AI, it would get kind of annoying/easy if the AI were to blindly attack you if your troops were off your borders.

PetitBourgeois · 19-01-2010, 03:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twilight

Well, no more than it would have hated anyone else who became such a huge power just down the road. I'd say 'concerned about' rather than hated.

If France was going to have this CB on anyone, it would be Austria & England (historically).

Germany was born in French blood, to put it simply. The German Emperor was crowned in the Hall of Mirrors at Versailles (a terrible insult) during the Franco-Prussian War, after which France was forced to pay indemnities. This lead to the unity of French people over the political spectrum, from monarchist to socialist, against the Germans. This unity was most evident during World War I.

However, this is entirely out of the game's spectrum. Prior to the events of the Unification of Germany, there was not such enmity. Just think of the Diplomatic Revolution of 1756, which changed the alliance structure of Europe: France-Prussia vs. Great Britain-Austria became France-Austria vs. Great Britain-Prussia. In both cases, France was allied with a German state.

Blastaz · 19-01-2010, 07:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by PetitBourgeois

Germany was born in French blood, to put it simply. The German Emperor was crowned in the Hall of Mirrors at Versailles (a terrible insult) during the Franco-Prussian War, after which France was forced to pay indemnities. This lead to the unity of French people over the political spectrum, from monarchist to socialist, against the Germans. This unity was most evident during World War I.

However, this is entirely out of the game's spectrum. Prior to the events of the Unification of Germany, there was not such enmity. Just think of the Diplomatic Revolution of 1756, which changed the alliance structure of Europe: France-Prussia vs. Great Britain-Austria became France-Austria vs. Great Britain-Prussia. In both cases, France was allied with a German state.

Which rather prooved that the two countries that hated each other for keeps, were the two countries that had hated each other pretty consistently for the past half century or so...

Filip de Norre · 19-01-2010, 08:32

A rivalry/hatred/threat CB seems like a good idea. But as pointed out most of the countries that are historical rivals end up getting and giving lots of CBs on each other. Denmark and Sweden, sure seems to be at war most of the time, only paused by the 5 years of truce rule. And how many real rivalries were there? With France and England. Where could England expand, when they had subjugated both Scotland and the Irish??

18-01-2010, 17:34	#1
arbiter6 Major Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 606	That ONE new casus belli we might need... So, as I was playing a European game and later on, a south-eastern one, and i realised that MAYBE the casus-belli system lacked one that is based on a bit more of an abstract subject. I call it : Historical differences CB Anytime a nation is regularly and for extended periods of times at war with you, the sheer hatred and the habit itself should suffice to provide a reason for war. I'm thinking for exemple about the age-old Franco-English (then Franco-British rivalry) or the lithuanian-russian one. Or about any two great imperialistic powers sharing a common frontier. After 200 years of quasi constant warfare, you'd think, just like core provinces, that the main archenemy of a country would be decided and no CB would be needed. I'm not saying it should take 200 years, but perhaps, a number of wars within a period of time (6 in a 50year period for exemple) would grant a 25 year long, permanent CB (which itself could be renewed but needing only 2 wars in that period). The actual CB system is great, but once you have retaken your land from your enemy you are left with "moral" CBs like trade or religious ones. Whatever happens to revenge then ? How many wars were started for just that reason ? What do you think ? __________________ "Ultima Ratio Regum" ("Last Argument of Kings") -Louis XIV of France, engraved on every French-made cannons

18-01-2010, 18:06	#3
ve3609 Major Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 653	nah. Because after 100 years or so of peace most nations stop being mortal enemies. RE: US and GB, GB and France, France and Germany __________________ Sorry, I don't have time to talk about our AI atm, but I was not aware of there being an AI in Empire Total War.- Johan Check out my first ever burgundy aar! http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...d.php?t=475192 (Abandoned due to computer issues)

18-01-2010, 18:21	#4
Shackel Major Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 540	I think France hated Germany since its(Germany's) birth. -- I think a certain amount of discovered spy attacks should give you a CB, as well. Last edited by Shackel; 19-01-2010 at 02:19.

18-01-2010, 18:45	#5
GAGA Extrem Close the worLd,.txEn eht nepO Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 2,275	Well, germany is rather young - so that has nothing to do with EU3. Anyhow, later you get imperialistic CBs. And you can easily DOW heathens. A distrust CB is not necessary. Although we could use a "humilate" peace option like in Ricky. __________________ The GAGA Tech Mod for Arsenal of Democracy (release 1.35) The HoI3 Balance Improvement Modification (beta 0.90 SF)

19-01-2010, 00:38	#8
Blastaz Captain Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland Posts: 360	Yeah not being able to warn them back is just cruel! I think its a good idea. The only problem being if you go to war with someone for three or four times, there's generally not much of them left. __________________ Non Angelus Sed Anglus

18-01-2010, 18:01	#2
Reinisable Second Lieutenant Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 113	I don't think it's necessary, because nations that you've had a lot of wars before will distrust you and such nations will often try take all of their chances to weaken you and gaining a casus-belli is quite easy with the new system.

18-01-2010, 19:53	#6
Pauss First Lieutenant Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 253	balkan tribes come to mind neverending casus belli

18-01-2010, 23:56	#7
morris0n First Lieutenant Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Canada Posts: 246	when someone warns you that should warrant a CB as well

19-01-2010, 01:29	#10
Pauss First Lieutenant Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 253	hm. maybe then a 'remove threat CB'? every country has a 'feels threatened by' in its description so that could be used.

19-01-2010, 02:20	#11
Shackel Major Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 540	Yes, but due to the dogpileish AI, it would get kind of annoying/easy if the AI were to blindly attack you if your troops were off your borders.

19-01-2010, 08:32	#14
Filip de Norre AaB-Deportivo 18th february Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Esbjerg - Denmark Posts: 484	A rivalry/hatred/threat CB seems like a good idea. But as pointed out most of the countries that are historical rivals end up getting and giving lots of CBs on each other. Denmark and Sweden, sure seems to be at war most of the time, only paused by the 5 years of truce rule. And how many real rivalries were there? With France and England. Where could England expand, when they had subjugated both Scotland and the Irish?? __________________ AaB 2007-08 Champions!