Please Read Before You Buy: Misleading Information on Website regarding Multiplayer

top_pops · 17-09-2009, 21:59

I have a group of friends that get together to play PC games cooperatively. The co-op features of different games means that we can all play and win even though our skill levels are different and exposure to different games varies greatly. The number of true co-op games has dwindled over the last few years, so I was very excited to read about Majesty 2, especially the details on this page:

http://www.majesty2.com/#/support/multiplayer/
In Majesty 2 our goal is to perfect different kinds multiplayer modes, like player vs. player as well as cooperative play. The Levelmaker (the person who creates the multiplayer map where the game is set) can enable either competitive or cooperative play during a mission. Then, players can choose which side to support. On maps which enable cooperative play, players can either play together against computer-controlled opponents, or in union vs. union – 2 players against 2 players.

As it turns out, this ability to play co-op isn't in the game at all. This has been verified by a few posts here on the boards, but the bogus information on the webpage still stands. This kind of false advertising is very problematic for many of us, since it can be difficult to get a full refund for an opened videogame. It's a frustrating situation, and I believe it leads many to piracy as the only way to test and see if the features you care about made it into the game.

So I'd like to make it very clear for those of us who were planning on buying multiple copies of the game to play with friends in this style: Save your cash. Don't support this sort of false advertising.

Developers and Publishers, take note - it's OK to slip features. It's not OK to pretend you didn't so that you can sell more units.

Those of you who like the game, play single player or head-to-head, this post is not for you - no response needed. Those who love co-op and feel this is just the latest slipshod abandonment of a key feature, chime in and let them know! Especially if you just wasted $50.

~Tops

agentghost · 17-09-2009, 22:01

damn.. is this true? if it is, is there a way to get refund for this? this is ridiculous

Nesrie · 17-09-2009, 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by top_pops

Those of you who like the game, play single player or head-to-head, this post is not for you - no response needed. Those who love co-op and feel this is just the latest slipshod abandonment of a key feature, chime in and let them know! Especially if you just wasted $50.

~Tops

I was trying to figure out how my sister and I wound up waiting for this game for co-operative play only to find out it didn't have it. I thought maybe I had screwed up someplace when she told me there were virtually no options for the multiplayer maps. I guess I did read this a long awhile back and took it to be the truth. At least I can tell her I didn't just pull out the idea this was a cooperative game out of nowhere.

tomsoderlund · 17-09-2009, 22:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by top_pops

As it turns out, this ability to play co-op isn't in the game at all.

Hi top_pops,

Actually, you can play cooperatively in the "2-vs-1" multiplayer maps in the game. However, there's no "2-vs-2" maps which wrongly have been mentioned in our marketing material.

Please note that you cannot play the Single-Player Campaign cooperatively, nor has this been communicated earlier.

Regards,

Tom Söderlund
Executive Producer, Majesty 2
Paradox Interactive

top_pops · 17-09-2009, 22:16

Are you suggesting that in the 2-vs-1 maps, the 2 could be 2 human players, and the 1 would be an AI?

Susana · 17-09-2009, 22:37

I've updated the website as well, thanks for bringing it to our attention.

Kind regards
Susana Meza

Nesrie · 17-09-2009, 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Susana

I've updated the website as well, thanks for bringing it to our attention.

Kind regards
Susana Meza

So cooperative and team vs team and 2 player vs 1 player all mean the same thing to Paradox?

top_pops · 17-09-2009, 23:29

Thanks - I'll take that as a no to any AI players in a LAN or internet game, which was exactly my point.

Since you're fixing your marketing materials post-release, the last line from that same page reads as follows:

The maximum number of players per multiplayer game is 4 players (not including AI-controlled parties).

While I appreciate the fact that this is a "true statement", the part in parenthesis continues to suggest that there are AI players that humans could play against (AKA co-op, or skirmish mode). Might want to run that through the shredder too.

~Tops

centrelink3 · 17-09-2009, 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomsoderlund

Actually, you can play cooperatively in the "2-vs-1" multiplayer maps in the game. However, there's no "2-vs-2" maps which wrongly have been mentioned in our marketing material.

Sorry you just lost a sale. It may be a great game but I was all keyed up for coop as so few games have it and I love it! I and 2 friends will literally buy a game just for this feature.

Dissappointment is way too high now.

AND

Sorry but WTF?

Unless you mean 1 = 1 AI that is NOT COOP. Never has been never will be. See all the games that have it and dont tout coop?!

EDIT: Thinking about it I will also not buy due to support for truth in advertising, quite frankly its not good enough to take down false ads after all the preorders and first day orders are locked in on the basis of that advertising. Friend just called and said hes got a copy!

Unless offer of refunds is made pubicly I will be complaining to whatever the EU has for consumer protection as well as my own countries.

EDIT2: Whoa just checked the website and it still says cooperative play.

CHANGE IT NOW!

goodgimp · 17-09-2009, 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by centrelink3

Unless offer of refunds is made pubicly I will be complaining to whatever the EU has for consumer protection as well as my own countries.

Don't you think you're just being a tad dramatic?

centrelink3 · 17-09-2009, 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by goodgimp

Don't you think you're just being a tad dramatic?

Oh have a think about this:

1. Why was the advertising correct or was it false?
It was false
2. Was it changed at all (it isnt yet)?
Not yet still tricking people
3. If it is changed will it be after people have ordered on the basis of it
Yes from the forum several people have or would have. I know I would have, I know my friend has already bought a copy, I left a message for my brother not to order the TWO copies he was getting for us, I hope he gets it
4. Have people got what they paid for and enticed into buying for?
No clearly not

I wont be complaining for 7 days to give them a chance to do the right thing. EDIT: To be clear this doesnt apply if they dont immediately change the advertising, I cant morally stand by whilst they con people.

After that I will be complaining in writing to all and sundry, and I will encourage others to do so.

goodgimp · 18-09-2009, 01:25

Paradox is the publisher, not the developer. Considering coop was listed on the site, chances are it was originally intended, or planned. So game development goes on for another year or so, game gets released - Oh woops, no coop! People raise a stink on the forums (rightfully so), Susana fixes the website and says thanks for bringing it to their attention. I love a good conspiracy theory, but this doesn't exactly reek of Paradox trying to con people out of their money, especially when they've had a great track record of refunding people's purchases if they aren't satisfied.

But by all means, don't let my big dark cloud obscure the sparkle of the tinfoil hat.

(Although I do have to say, the lack of coop really is a gamebreaker for me. Start whipping some developers, Paradox, and get it in the game!)

gammapaladin · 18-09-2009, 01:28

Have you tried launching a 2vs1 game with only two players?

It might matter which locations you set to start at too...

Nesrie · 18-09-2009, 01:38

Definitely not the fault of Paradox, however, they are still using the words cooperative. Cooperative implies an AI. Team play does not. There is nothing in the game to be cooperative against says my sis, and I am going to trust her against the marketing team at Paradox. She bought the game. Say's it's great singleplayer but they hosed the multiplayer so we, the rest of my group, are not buying it for that reaosn. I have dozens of single-player games to enjoy. We were looking for a fresh multiplayer game (cooperative).

top_pops · 18-09-2009, 01:41

I agree with you goodgimp - I don't think this is a conspiracy at all. I just wanted to bring attention to the fact that co-op was on the list of features, and didn't make it into the game. Nowhere was this publicized except buried in the threads of people who had already purchased the game. Co-op is almost an expected feature in any RTS these days, so it's actually more unusual that Majesty 2 doesn't have it.

For some of us, videogaming is all about the social aspect of playing with other people. It's a shared experience that we can all enjoy. When you play with a casual group, Player-vs-Player simply doesn't work. The folks who have the most experience with any given game simply trounce the others, and it makes it much less entertaining. Co-op means we can all work towards one goal and the more experienced help the less.

There's no circumstance where I want to buy (or have my friends buy) 4 copies of a game that we will never play. That's effectively a $100-200 expense.

So, no malice intended or conspiracy suspected - just a heads up to potential customers. It certainly didn't help that Tom jumped in with an answer that was very salesy and generally untrue rather than "Wow, you're right - sorry about that."

~Tops

parachute · 18-09-2009, 01:49

Lol, software industry really has to rethink its attitude.

With every game released the situation gets worse. 1st world marketing department realizes games with 2nd/3rd world standard. Sometimes I think the only professional people are the ones writing the "reviews". Hahaha.

No co-op play is an dissapointement. False advertisement is normal. Most games are so unfinished/full of bugs, does it really matter what has been advertised?!?

To all the people pre-ordering stuff. Don't do it. Just don't. And if you did, never do it again. The only company I would ever consider pre-ordering from is Blizzard Entertainment. Everybody else in this industry is just a bunch of clowns.

Swedish_Tiger · 18-09-2009, 02:04

A lot of angry people here

. Sort of feels like the HOI3 boards.

nessin · 18-09-2009, 02:08

Just curious, how does "Cooperative" and "Team Play" differ? In your mind it might, but when I think of the two, even in "game" terminology, they pretty much mean the same thing. You may be unhappy with that, and feel it is wrong, but that doesn't mean it is false advertising on that particular part. (This is all assuming you can have two players on the same team working together to achieve a common goal, I haven't tried multiplayer yet)

Sameo · 18-09-2009, 02:10

I hope they add it in a patch someday

Nesrie · 18-09-2009, 02:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by nessin

Just curious, how does "Cooperative" and "Team Play" differ? In your mind it might, but when I think of the two, even in "game" terminology, they pretty much mean the same thing. You may be unhappy with that, and feel it is wrong, but that doesn't mean it is false advertising on that particular part. (This is all assuming you can have two players on the same team working together to achieve a common goal, I haven't tried multiplayer yet)

There is an entire site dedicated to cooperative play called co-optimus. Cooperative play is againt he computer. Humans cooperating together to go against a computer (ie "the game"). Team play can be player teams vs player teams, or player teams vs AI. Cooperative is not a new term I made up. It's mentioned all the time in the industry. Cooperative is not PVP. It is false advertisement.

17-09-2009, 21:59	#1
top_pops Recruit Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 4	Please Read Before You Buy: Misleading Information on Website regarding Multiplayer I have a group of friends that get together to play PC games cooperatively. The co-op features of different games means that we can all play and win even though our skill levels are different and exposure to different games varies greatly. The number of true co-op games has dwindled over the last few years, so I was very excited to read about Majesty 2, especially the details on this page: http://www.majesty2.com/#/support/multiplayer/ In Majesty 2 our goal is to perfect different kinds multiplayer modes, like player vs. player as well as cooperative play. The Levelmaker (the person who creates the multiplayer map where the game is set) can enable either competitive or cooperative play during a mission. Then, players can choose which side to support. On maps which enable cooperative play, players can either play together against computer-controlled opponents, or in union vs. union – 2 players against 2 players. As it turns out, this ability to play co-op isn't in the game at all. This has been verified by a few posts here on the boards, but the bogus information on the webpage still stands. This kind of false advertising is very problematic for many of us, since it can be difficult to get a full refund for an opened videogame. It's a frustrating situation, and I believe it leads many to piracy as the only way to test and see if the features you care about made it into the game. So I'd like to make it very clear for those of us who were planning on buying multiple copies of the game to play with friends in this style: Save your cash. Don't support this sort of false advertising. Developers and Publishers, take note - it's OK to slip features. It's not OK to pretend you didn't so that you can sell more units. Those of you who like the game, play single player or head-to-head, this post is not for you - no response needed. Those who love co-op and feel this is just the latest slipshod abandonment of a key feature, chime in and let them know! Especially if you just wasted $50. ~Tops

18-09-2009, 02:04	#17
Swedish_Tiger Mender of Turing Machines Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Sweden, Örnsköldsvik Posts: 188	A lot of angry people here . Sort of feels like the HOI3 boards. __________________ Chairman of the Paradox Refugee Camp Some student projects in software engineering I took part in: http://greedprojg6.blogspot.com/ http://oosd.team.googlepages.com/workbook Check out my youtube channel if you are interested in graphics programming and simulation.

17-09-2009, 22:01	#2
agentghost Corporal Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 44	damn.. is this true? if it is, is there a way to get refund for this? this is ridiculous

17-09-2009, 22:16	#5
top_pops Recruit Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 4	Are you suggesting that in the 2-vs-1 maps, the 2 could be 2 human players, and the 1 would be an AI?

17-09-2009, 22:37	#6
Susana Paradox Publishing Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 691	I've updated the website as well, thanks for bringing it to our attention. Kind regards Susana Meza

17-09-2009, 23:29	#8
top_pops Recruit Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 4	Thanks - I'll take that as a no to any AI players in a LAN or internet game, which was exactly my point. Since you're fixing your marketing materials post-release, the last line from that same page reads as follows: The maximum number of players per multiplayer game is 4 players (not including AI-controlled parties). While I appreciate the fact that this is a "true statement", the part in parenthesis continues to suggest that there are AI players that humans could play against (AKA co-op, or skirmish mode). Might want to run that through the shredder too. ~Tops

18-09-2009, 01:25	#12
goodgimp Second Lieutenant Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 137	Paradox is the publisher, not the developer. Considering coop was listed on the site, chances are it was originally intended, or planned. So game development goes on for another year or so, game gets released - Oh woops, no coop! People raise a stink on the forums (rightfully so), Susana fixes the website and says thanks for bringing it to their attention. I love a good conspiracy theory, but this doesn't exactly reek of Paradox trying to con people out of their money, especially when they've had a great track record of refunding people's purchases if they aren't satisfied. But by all means, don't let my big dark cloud obscure the sparkle of the tinfoil hat. (Although I do have to say, the lack of coop really is a gamebreaker for me. Start whipping some developers, Paradox, and get it in the game!)

18-09-2009, 01:28	#13
gammapaladin Second Lieutenant Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 174	Have you tried launching a 2vs1 game with only two players? It might matter which locations you set to start at too...

18-09-2009, 01:38	#14
Nesrie Second Lieutenant Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 105	Definitely not the fault of Paradox, however, they are still using the words cooperative. Cooperative implies an AI. Team play does not. There is nothing in the game to be cooperative against says my sis, and I am going to trust her against the marketing team at Paradox. She bought the game. Say's it's great singleplayer but they hosed the multiplayer so we, the rest of my group, are not buying it for that reaosn. I have dozens of single-player games to enjoy. We were looking for a fresh multiplayer game (cooperative).

18-09-2009, 01:41	#15
top_pops Recruit Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 4	I agree with you goodgimp - I don't think this is a conspiracy at all. I just wanted to bring attention to the fact that co-op was on the list of features, and didn't make it into the game. Nowhere was this publicized except buried in the threads of people who had already purchased the game. Co-op is almost an expected feature in any RTS these days, so it's actually more unusual that Majesty 2 doesn't have it. For some of us, videogaming is all about the social aspect of playing with other people. It's a shared experience that we can all enjoy. When you play with a casual group, Player-vs-Player simply doesn't work. The folks who have the most experience with any given game simply trounce the others, and it makes it much less entertaining. Co-op means we can all work towards one goal and the more experienced help the less. There's no circumstance where I want to buy (or have my friends buy) 4 copies of a game that we will never play. That's effectively a $100-200 expense. So, no malice intended or conspiracy suspected - just a heads up to potential customers. It certainly didn't help that Tom jumped in with an answer that was very salesy and generally untrue rather than "Wow, you're right - sorry about that." ~Tops

18-09-2009, 01:49	#16
parachute Sergeant Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 68	Lol, software industry really has to rethink its attitude. With every game released the situation gets worse. 1st world marketing department realizes games with 2nd/3rd world standard. Sometimes I think the only professional people are the ones writing the "reviews". Hahaha. No co-op play is an dissapointement. False advertisement is normal. Most games are so unfinished/full of bugs, does it really matter what has been advertised?!? To all the people pre-ordering stuff. Don't do it. Just don't. And if you did, never do it again. The only company I would ever consider pre-ordering from is Blizzard Entertainment. Everybody else in this industry is just a bunch of clowns.

18-09-2009, 02:08	#18
nessin Captain Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 453	Just curious, how does "Cooperative" and "Team Play" differ? In your mind it might, but when I think of the two, even in "game" terminology, they pretty much mean the same thing. You may be unhappy with that, and feel it is wrong, but that doesn't mean it is false advertising on that particular part. (This is all assuming you can have two players on the same team working together to achieve a common goal, I haven't tried multiplayer yet)

18-09-2009, 02:10	#19
Sameo Recruit Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 7	I hope they add it in a patch someday