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Descartes

Lt. General
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Oct 12, 2008
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7: SPECIALIZATION

I think it's time for a regular update after all the posts in the map log. The theme for today's update is specialization. This is a feature I would like to implement in EUR, since I believe it's one of the most important factors in economic development. The idea is that a more complex division of labour usually leads to higher productivity. I think Adam Smith would agree with me in this.

I've changed the trade system in EUR a couple of times now, but this time I think I've got it. My idea is to divide the economic development of a province into three phases. A province reaches the next phase once its wealth reaches a certain level. For those of you who didn't read the post I made in the Buildings thread, wealth is just a new name for the civilisation parameter.

The phases have two functions. Firstly, they enable specialization (the theme for today's update, remember?) and secondly, they unlock new units. In the first phase, the province has hardly specialized its production at all. The only thing that might differ from other provinces is the food production. Since the inhabitants aren't wealthy enough to afford decent equipment, the player can only recruit light infantry, missile infantry and light cavalry in the province. As the province develops, however, it will eventually reach the second phase. It will now begin to produce one specific product to a larger extent, exporting it to other provinces. During this phase, the player can no longer recruit missile infantry, but heavy infantry instead. Finally, when the province reaches the third phase, light cavalry is replaced by heavy cavalry. The third phase offers the greatest level of specialization.

A major difference to the original system is that there are no trade routes. Every phase increases local tax income instead. This might sound like a huge change, but it doesn't affect the national economy that much. Currently, trade income depends (at least partially) on the size of the population, and so does the local tax income. If you like, it's a bit like EU III with no merchants.

I have several reasons for removing trade routes. To begin with, I've always found them rather unrealistic. Historically, a province in the Roman empire didn't trade with one other province, but all other provinces. Even if you had an insane amount of local trade routes (to reflect this), the engine would still only accept one of each trade good. Also, as soon as you play a major power, the trade routes tend to become a royal pain in the ass. Not only do you have to create them all when the game starts, you also have to create them again if your province is taken by barbarians or rebels.

Provinces below 50 civilisation didn't have any trade routes in the last version of Imperium, and that worked quite nicely in my opinion. Back then, I had events increasing civilisation values once certain buildings where built. This time, the parameter is called wealth and will not depend on what buildings you construct. The concept is the same though: Events take care of the spread of wealth. Peace and high stability will obviously make these events appear more often. We also have the built-in feature formerly known as civilisation spread, which will take care of the spread of wealth between neighbouring provinces.

The concept of specialization implies that one product lead to another. As a province develops, it specializes more and more within a specific area. The chart below shows how products develop in the different phases.

Specialisation.jpg


It might seem confusing, but it's not that complicated. In the first phase, a province can either be specialized in agriculture, animal keeping, hunting and gathering or fishing. In the second phase, each of these groups leads to different products. There is also a chance that metals or other raw materials are found in the province, in which case the development will take another turn. Border provinces may also specialize in foreign goods, which yield the same trade income regardless of the number of people living in the province.

I would like to hear lots of comments on this before I implement it. Feel free to post suggestions on new products, new paths of specialization or anything you come up with.

Cheers,
Descartes
 
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I think it's a fantastic idea, and a much more historical system than the trading card gamesque style of trading in vanilla.
 
You're gonna have a lot of work ahead of you, since there are many things based on and affected by the old trade system. Good luck. :rofl:
Nah, we're only talking about some interface changes and a few altered modifiers here. ;)

Looks great, Descartes. When will Paradox start empploying you...? ;)

Seriously, though: how will this affect foreign trade with different nations?
Why should they pay me when I'm stupid enough to do it for free? :p
I have thought of having a few foreign trade events, since the regular create trade route won't work.
 
Why should they pay me when I'm stupid enough to do it for free? :p
I have thought of having a few foreign trade events, since the regular create trade route won't work.

Perhaps the 'Open trade routes' diplomatic option (I think it's called something like that) could give some sort of modifier which raises the wealth (minutely) to provinces of a certain grade?
 
What about a Strategic Managament decision system. You could educate yourself on the basic principles through trial and error in the game, learn while you play. These may sound like modern inventions but I am sure they have been around since the days of the ancient Near East.

1) Competetive Strategies:
- Low Cost Leadership
- Broad Differentiation
- Best-Cost Provider
- Low Cost Strategies
- Differentiation Strategies
2) Offensive Strategies
3) Defensive Strategies
4) Vertical Integration

ie, Low cost strategy is best for basics like grains and salts, crush the competition with Offenisve Strategies, differentiation strategies best for more artistic goods, increase your market share and then drop into defensive strategy mode, vertical integration with your mines.

Trade orientated governments get more options than non-trade governments, monopolise the market, create trade colonies,etc.

Dreams :rolleyes:
 
Perhaps the 'Open trade routes' diplomatic option (I think it's called something like that) could give some sort of modifier which raises the wealth (minutely) to provinces of a certain grade?
I'm afraid I can't mod the effects of diplomatic options. They're hardcoded. :(
The things I can do, however, is to 1) rename the diplomatic option and 2) change the create trade route window. I guess I could convert the create route window to a guide to the trade system and call the option "Access the trade guide" or something. :p

What about a Strategic Managament decision system. You could educate yourself on the basic principles through trial and error in the game, learn while you play. These may sound like modern inventions but I am sure they have been around since the days of the ancient Near East.

1) Competetive Strategies:
- Low Cost Leadership
- Broad Differentiation
- Best-Cost Provider
- Low Cost Strategies
- Differentiation Strategies
2) Offensive Strategies
3) Defensive Strategies
4) Vertical Integration

ie, Low cost strategy is best for basics like grains and salts, crush the competition with Offenisve Strategies, differentiation strategies best for more artistic goods, increase your market share and then drop into defensive strategy mode, vertical integration with your mines.

Trade orientated governments get more options than non-trade governments, monopolise the market, create trade colonies,etc.

Dreams :rolleyes:
I'd love to see that kind of decisions. :D Or maybe sliders could be used for it, what do you think? A combination of triggered modifiers and sliders could become rather stable, I think.
Just a wild idea, maybe we could use the religion system for this? Religious power would be called market share and the omens would be different strategies. Awesome. :p
 
I will sketch out the basics and see how it looks. AI wise we could give it three basic strategies with chance of 50(neutral):25(positive):25(negative). With AI trade governments having better more dominating stretegies.

Triggered modifiers would work fine but you would have to educate me on the use of the sliders. The reigion system could be the go I can see them all sitting there on the list in my head.

Also on the list of trade goods what about tin ? Tin + Copper = Bronze. It had some advantages and disadvantages over both iron and copper.
ie, Bronze ram heads on Trireme's as bronze doesnt corrode as easily.
 
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I have an idea for a small system that partially deals with the removal of trade routes. It is a simple system that models the Silk Trade. Basically, countries with provinces in certain areas of the Middle East will see the value of those provinces fluctuate. The more citizens there are in civilized areas of the Mediterranean basin, the more valuable these provinces will be.
 
Do the different goods still have different effects? Why should I specialise on Coins in one gold province and on Jewelry in another instead of having both making coins?

The system sounds really great, although I don't understand it completely.
 
Also on the list of trade goods what about tin ? Tin + Copper = Bronze. It had some advantages and disadvantages over both iron and copper.
ie, Bronze ram heads on Trireme's as bronze doesnt corrode as easily.
Good idea! Provinces with bronze could specialize in weapons and armour, and I think bronze rams could be a specialization product as well.

I have an idea for a small system that partially deals with the removal of trade routes. It is a simple system that models the Silk Trade. Basically, countries with provinces in certain areas of the Middle East will see the value of those provinces fluctuate. The more citizens there are in civilized areas of the Mediterranean basin, the more valuable these provinces will be.
Sounds good, but what kind of value would fluctuate? If it's the local tax income, did you mean by means of provincial modifiers?

Do the different goods still have different effects? Why should I specialise on Coins in one gold province and on Jewelry in another instead of having both making coins?

The system sounds really great, although I don't understand it completely.
Yeah they have different effects. I'll post another DD soon where I explain the new trade system's impact on national economy in detail. The idea is that trade goods give global bonuses instead of local.

I really like that system, just dont make it too EU III like and economy laden/modern. Especially when the timeline is expanded so far into the past, economy managment shouldnt have a role above religion.
It won't feel too modern, I think. I don't share your view on economic management, though. Economic management was just as important then as it is today. The Roman government, for example, regulated the salt price according to the situation (low in peace, to keep the lower classes happy; high in war, to raise funds for the armies).