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Descartes

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Oct 12, 2008
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The Gods will probably punish this act of hubris, but I've decided to call this thread my Development Diary. With a subforum at my disposal, I thought I might just as well do it Paradox style. The idea is that I give you some nice info and a couple of pictures, and you tell me what you think about it. Any feedback is welcome.

Today's topic is buildings. I've always thought that the so called province improvements in Rome are a bit stereotypical. They all cost the same and each of them makes use of their own little provincial modifier. I would like to give them more of a strategic role. Right now, my economy usually gets a bit overheated after a few hours' play. I use the ledger to build all available province improvements, just to spend some money. Then I wait for the next building to be unlocked by a discovery, and have another go.

To prevent this, I've decided to introduce building maintenance costs. This isn't just a balance thing; It has always bugged me that public buildings are free to run once they've been built. Building an arena is hardly a one-time investment. Anyway, what makes building maintenance costs interesting is that they are static. An arena in Rome costs as much to run as one in Arverni. The reduction to local revolt risk is also the same, which means that you have to ask yourself where you need the arena most (I'd say Rome, but maybe that's just me).

People who aren't used to this will probably run straight into a financial crisis. Luckily, I'll replace the current bankruptcy events with a couple of new ones, that aren't actually taking any buildings out, but adding a province modifier that makes them useless for some time (they are closed down). When the economy is stable again, it's possible to start using them again. I hope this will make economy in EUR more dynamic.

Here's a full list of all buildings I'm going to include, complete with prerequisites, costs, build times (in days) and effects.

INFRASTRUCTURE
1. Roads
Cost: 60
Time: 1460
Effects: movement_cost = -0.25

2. Paved Roads
Prerequisite: Roads
Cost: 80
Time: 1460
Effects: movement_cost = -0.25

WATER SUPPLY
3. Aqueduct
Cost: 80
Time: 730
Effects: local_population_growth = 0.01

4. Sewers
Prerequisite: Aqueduct
Cost: 80
Time: 730
Effects: local_population_growth = 0.01

5. Irrigation
Cost: 80
Time: 730
Effects: local_tax_modifier = 0.25; supply_limit = 4

TRADE
6. Forum
Cost: 40
Time: 365
Effects: local_trade_routes = 1

7. Harbour
Cost: 60
Time: 730
Effects: local_trade_routes = 1

8. Military Harbour
Prerequisite: Harbour
Cost: 120
Time: 730
Effects: pirate_spawn_chance = -0.01; local_ship_recruit_speed = -0.3; tax_income = -0.2

EDUCATION
9. Academy
Cost: 120
Time: 1460
Effects: local_research_points_modifier = 0.5; tax_income = -0.2

10. Library
Cost: 360
Time: 1095
Effects: local_research_points_modifier = 0.25; civilization_spread = 0.01; tax_income = -0.1

ENTERTAINMENT
11. Theatre
Cost: 60
Time: 365
Effects: local_revolt_risk = -0.5; tax_income = -0.2

12. Arena
Cost: 120
Time: 730
Effects: local_revolt_risk = -1; tax_income = -0.4

COMMUNITY
13. Public Baths
Cost: 40
Time: 365
Effects: local_revolt_risk = -0.5; local_population_growth = 0.005; tax_income = -0.1

14. Stadium
Cost: 120
Time: 1460
Effects: badboy = -0.05; local_revolt_risk = -1; tax_income = -0.3

SPLENDOUR
15. Lighthouse
Cost: 180
Time: 730
Effects: naval_organisation = 0.01

16. Palace
Cost: 80
Time: 365
Effects: barbarian_spawn_chance = -0.1

17. Gardens
Prerequisite: Palace
Cost: 40
Time: 365
Effects: barbarian_spawn_chance = -0.05

RELIGION
18. Temple
Cost: 120
Time: 730
Effects: local_religious_prestige = 1; stability_cost = -2; tax_income = -0.2

19. Mausoleum
Cost: 240
Time: 1825
Effects: local_religious_prestige = 0.5; ruler_popularity_gain = 0.01

GARRISON
20. Permanent Army Camp
Cost: 20
Time: 180
Effects: supply_limit = 4; fort_level = 1; tax_income = -0.4

21. Fortified Army Camp
Prerequisite: Permanent Army Camp
Cost: 40
Time: 365
Effects: fort_level = 1; tax_income = -0.2

22. City Guard
Cost: 80
Time: 730
Effects: local_revolt_risk = -2; fort_level = 1; local_start_experience = 0.3; local_manpower_modifier = -0.1; tax_income = -0.4

DEFENSES
23. Wooden City Walls
Cost: 40
Time: 180
Effects: local_defensive = 0.2

24. Stone City Walls
Prerequisite: Wooden City Walls
Cost: 80
Time: 165
Effects: local_defensive = 0.2

25. Watchtowers
Cost: 20
Time: 180
Effects: land_organisation = 0.001

26. Fortified Borders
Prerequisite: Watchtowers
Cost: 360
Time: 1460
Effects: fort_level = 1; local_defensive = 0.3; tax_income = -0.6

The values are not set in stone, so feel free to comment if you find something unbalanced or illogical. Also, note that I will rename fort level to garrison size. Sounds better to me.

Finally, my new buildings will require some interface changes in order to work properly in-game. I think it will look something like this:
Provinceview.jpg

The grey parts are supposed to be filled with new building icons.

That was all for today, I hope you enjoyed it.

Cheers,
Descartes
 
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I think the public baths should also give a boost to the population growth, after all they had a great hygienical purpose too, besides the amusement/entertainment factor.
 
looking purrdy :)

the spelling of maoseleum is Mausoleum though ;)
 
Good idea on the diaries :)


Buildings are looking fantastic, great job.

Though, if I may ask, how punitive are the upkeep costs for these buildings?
 
I think the public baths should also give a boost to the population growth, after all they had a great hygienical purpose too, besides the amusement/entertainment factor.
Good point.

looking purrdy :)

the spelling of maoseleum is Mausoleum though ;)
Sorry, my bad. Thanks for finding it. :)

Though, if I may ask, how punitive are the upkeep costs for these buildings?
They're shown in the list above (under effects). The arena, for example, requires 0.4 gold each month. This should be compared to the monthly tax revenues from a normal province. A normal province with small population might produce about one gold each month, while a province with bigger population (such as Rome) is likely to produce at least three times as much.

I hope, the upkeep will hurt so much, that it isn't reasonable or possible to build every building everywhere. :)
Yup, that's the plan.
 
They're shown in the list above (under effects). The arena, for example, requires 0.4 gold each month. This should be compared to the monthly tax revenues from a normal province. A normal province with small population might produce about one gold each month, while a province with bigger population (such as Rome) is likely to produce at least three times as much.

D'oh, my bad, not quite awake :) Good upkeep rates, and sensibly placed too, I was a little worried you might place them on everything, but anyway, excellent job, I can't wait for the next version!
 
Will the AI be able to moderate it's building so as not to bankrupt itself? I've noticed that when they can they build tons of buildings.
 
Will the AI be able to moderate it's building so as not to bankrupt itself? I've noticed that when they can they build tons of buildings.
Good question. It's not possible to mod the AI directly, but the bankruptcy events I mentioned will take care of too adventurous AI nations. This will probably make their development a bit slower, but on the other hand, they won't end up with complete cash flow as they do atm. If this becomes a problem, I could of course disable certain buildings for AI nations.
 
The set-, change- and check-variable commands from EU3 seems to be in EUR, but I haven't tried it. Look at the file events/Status_Quo.txt from Magna Mundi to see how it works.

Magna Mundi uses it to calculate the international status of a country (Minor holding, Small state, Medium power, Major power, Great power) and the administration effiency of a country (you really suffer if your administration effiency gets to low).

If we can not use variables in Rome, I have no good idea, how to count. Perhaps we could use the tyranny or infamy value of an invisible country.
 
Yeah, I've noticed the variable commands in EU3 mods. I always thought that they didn't work in EUR, but now that you mention it, adonys' modifier list does contain check_variable. Would be great if we could make use of them in EUR. :)
 
Good question. It's not possible to mod the AI directly, but the bankruptcy events I mentioned will take care of too adventurous AI nations. This will probably make their development a bit slower, but on the other hand, they won't end up with complete cash flow as they do atm. If this becomes a problem, I could of course disable certain buildings for AI nations.

Good, good I think that should work just fine then. Looking forward to whatever you do with this mod, it has been quite excellent so far.
 
Yeah I like the idea of buildings contributing civ, for temples and any other "culture" building at least.

Here's a thought, would it be possible (via events I'd think) for fort garrisons to give the ability to lead "sorties" out against the besieger? Seems kind of silly sometimes that a 4000 man garrison is at the mercy of 1000 militia on a camping trip.

Perhaps this would be too complicated and clumsy to implement in a mod though. A thought for the future then...
 
Remember that the only civilisation bonus we can play with is a global one, how quickly civilisation spreads in the whole country. I don't think temples and other culture buildings should have a global effect on civilisation. It's possible to provinces an increased civilisation value from these buildings through events, though, but I don't see why really.

Doc, I really like your idea with the sorties. As far as I know, it could be implemented quite easily with something along the lines of not = { units_in_province = 2 } and has_building = ... (different combinations of the buildings that increase the garrison size/fort level).