NOT A BUG: Activating Jacqueline de Baviere for Brabant?

sirbruce · 06-06-2002, 18:58

Tangentially related to my other post about Brabant...

I notice in the monarchs.hau file that Jacqueline de Baviere is dormant = yes. Unfortunately, there is no event in the game that actually wakes her up!

If the previously documented Burgundy event related to this was expanded and Brabant, say, given a choice, it would make sense to include her, but as it is she is never used. (Although she is the monarch for other countries.)

Is there any reason why she can't be activated? Say, as part of choice C in event 3775? The other Brabant monarch is going to die in 1430 anyway.

Also, what the source of the 1433 date provided in the file? According to everything I can find she didn't die until 1436.

At least this way if Brabant survives independently they actually use the monarch ID allocated.

Bruce

viper37 · 07-06-2002, 01:46

don't know, will ask

*AndrewT* · 11-06-2002, 08:18

Can't find anything useful on her. Her time span is duplicated by the other monarchs in that same file, and I don't know anything about the history of this area to comment. Can anyone help?

sirbruce · 11-06-2002, 13:39

http://www.bartleby.com/65/ja/Jacqueli.html
http://www.bartleby.com/65/ha/Hainaut.html
http://45.1911encyclopedia.org/J/JA/...JACQUELINE.htm

She gave up her claims on the 1433 date given, but she lived until 1436.

Again, my point is simply that since she is activated for other countries, I see no reason why not to activate her for Hainaut, even though her actual reign, if ever, would be brief and long after her attempted rebellion (because there's another monarch in the way).

I just don't see why she isn't turned on. She's taking up an ID.

Bruce

*AndrewT* · 11-06-2002, 14:00

OK, I'll just change her start date to 1430, the same as "Filips van St Pol" deathdate. Her end date is listed as 1433, but I'll make it 1436 as you suggest.

sirbruce · 11-06-2002, 21:05

Yay.

Bruce

Belgrade18 · 11-06-2002, 22:42

She is also monarch of Friesenland, and ends up reigning for over 100 years ...

sirbruce · 11-06-2002, 23:51

She's listed as the first monarch of Holland. Her deathdate should probably be extended in monarchs.hol to 1436, although Holland can only exist this early if Burgundy releases them as a vassal.

She's also the first monarch for Friesland; she should probably be extended to 1436.

Bruce

sirbruce · 12-06-2002, 00:15

100 years?

*checks some things*

Okay, I see the problem here. If there's a monarch in the monarch file, and it comes to their deathdate, and there's no active monarch to replace them, they keep on living!

I would have expected them to die and for the game to go to the random monarchs.

Andrew, could you see if possibly that could be submitted as a bug? It really doesn't seem right to me that monarchs should reign past their death date since the game can do random monarchs or regencies...

Alternatively, can monarchs be added in future patches? I know they are technically new features, but they are also bug fixes in the way, and I don't think there are any translation issues... you guys don't translate those files, right? If the bug fix can't be done as I described above perhaps we can fill in all the monarch files...

Bruce

*AndrewT* · 12-06-2002, 05:57

Quote:

Originally posted by sirbruce
If there's a monarch in the monarch file, and it comes to their deathdate, and there's no active monarch to replace them, they keep on living!

I would have expected them to die and for the game to go to the random monarchs.

Andrew, could you see if possibly that could be submitted as a bug? It really doesn't seem right to me that monarchs should reign past their death date since the game can do random monarchs or regencies...

Well it's definitely not a bug but working as designed ... let me open yet another SirBruce thread with the other betas and we'll discuss this one as well.

Quote:

Alternatively, can monarchs be added in future patches?

Sure, no problem with that.

*AndrewT* · 12-06-2002, 05:59

Quote:

Originally posted by sirbruce
Yay.

Bruce

Unfortunately I've met resistance, seeing as how she was never historically a Duchess of Brabant. People are saying she'd be better off just deleted.

sirbruce · 12-06-2002, 06:59

Quote:

Originally posted by AndrewT

Well it's definitely not a bug but working as designed ... let me open yet another SirBruce thread with the other betas and we'll discuss this one as well.

Okay, I don't have a huge problem with how it works now, other than the fact some countries can be left with some really bad monarchs lasting a long time.

It just wasn't what I expected.

But, you say there's no problem with adding monarchs, so perhaps the community can simply fill in some of these countries that lack full monarch files, and then the problem of monarches living past their enddate isn't an issue.

Bruce

sirbruce · 12-06-2002, 07:01

Quote:

Originally posted by AndrewT

Unfortunately I've met resistance, seeing as how she was never historically a Duchess of Brabant. People are saying she'd be better off just deleted.

Well, in that case, you should probably delete her from Friesland and Holland as well. Although, if we're talking about making monarchy files complete as possible, in some cases that means fictional monarchs, and I'd rather have a historical figure in place than not, but, whatever.

Bruce

*AndrewT* · 12-06-2002, 07:02

>the community can simply fill in some of these countries that lack full monarch files

Sure, but I think the main issue is countries that live as independent entities longer than they did historically. What if Brittany lives to 1820? You have to either use random monarchs or keep the last historical one.

sirbruce · 12-06-2002, 07:30

Well, see, I expected after the last historical monarch died, you'd get the random ones...

I do see what you're saying. But, since you guys made up monarchs for certain countries for certain lineages, or used other minor dukes and the like, I don't see why we can't do it for countries that didn't remain independent. We can make some up, put them in (any guidelines on attributes?), and the programmers won't have to change anything codewise.

Bruce

06-06-2002, 18:58	#1
sirbruce Major Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 725	Activating Jacqueline de Baviere for Brabant? Tangentially related to my other post about Brabant... I notice in the monarchs.hau file that Jacqueline de Baviere is dormant = yes. Unfortunately, there is no event in the game that actually wakes her up! If the previously documented Burgundy event related to this was expanded and Brabant, say, given a choice, it would make sense to include her, but as it is she is never used. (Although she is the monarch for other countries.) Is there any reason why she can't be activated? Say, as part of choice C in event 3775? The other Brabant monarch is going to die in 1430 anyway. Also, what the source of the 1433 date provided in the file? According to everything I can find she didn't die until 1436. At least this way if Brabant survives independently they actually use the monarch ID allocated. Bruce

07-06-2002, 01:46	#2
viper37 Lord Translator Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Server busy Posts: 7,626	don't know, will ask __________________ Paulie: One time at the Bing, I was alone to meet Eddy Lind. I saw the Virgin Mary. Tony: Why didn't you say somethin'? Fuck strippers—we coulda had a shrine; sold holy water in gallon jugs. We coulda made billions. Donc oui, celà a été exagéré, MAIS, c'était nécessaire afin de bien marquer les esprits. -Mosquito

11-06-2002, 08:18	#3
AndrewT Custom User Title Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 15,223	Can't find anything useful on her. Her time span is duplicated by the other monarchs in that same file, and I don't know anything about the history of this area to comment. Can anyone help? __________________ It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong. ‑G.K. Chesterton, essayist and novelist (1874‑1936)

11-06-2002, 14:00	#5
AndrewT Custom User Title Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 15,223	OK, I'll just change her start date to 1430, the same as "Filips van St Pol" deathdate. Her end date is listed as 1433, but I'll make it 1436 as you suggest. __________________ It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong. ‑G.K. Chesterton, essayist and novelist (1874‑1936) Last edited by AndrewT; 11-06-2002 at 14:08.

11-06-2002, 22:42	#7
Belgrade18 Sergeant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 65	She is also monarch of Friesenland, and ends up reigning for over 100 years ... __________________ **************************** Vita brevis, ars longa. -- Hippocrates ****************************

11-06-2002, 13:39	#4
sirbruce Major Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 725	http://www.bartleby.com/65/ja/Jacqueli.html http://www.bartleby.com/65/ha/Hainaut.html http://45.1911encyclopedia.org/J/JA/...JACQUELINE.htm She gave up her claims on the 1433 date given, but she lived until 1436. Again, my point is simply that since she is activated for other countries, I see no reason why not to activate her for Hainaut, even though her actual reign, if ever, would be brief and long after her attempted rebellion (because there's another monarch in the way). I just don't see why she isn't turned on. She's taking up an ID. Bruce

11-06-2002, 21:05	#6
sirbruce Major Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 725	Yay. Bruce

11-06-2002, 23:51	#8
sirbruce Major Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 725	She's listed as the first monarch of Holland. Her deathdate should probably be extended in monarchs.hol to 1436, although Holland can only exist this early if Burgundy releases them as a vassal. She's also the first monarch for Friesland; she should probably be extended to 1436. Bruce

12-06-2002, 00:15	#9
sirbruce Major Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 725	100 years? checks some things Okay, I see the problem here. If there's a monarch in the monarch file, and it comes to their deathdate, and there's no active monarch to replace them, they keep on living! I would have expected them to die and for the game to go to the random monarchs. Andrew, could you see if possibly that could be submitted as a bug? It really doesn't seem right to me that monarchs should reign past their death date since the game can do random monarchs or regencies... Alternatively, can monarchs be added in future patches? I know they are technically new features, but they are also bug fixes in the way, and I don't think there are any translation issues... you guys don't translate those files, right? If the bug fix can't be done as I described above perhaps we can fill in all the monarch files... Bruce

12-06-2002, 07:02	#14
AndrewT Custom User Title Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Sydney, Australia Posts: 15,223	>the community can simply fill in some of these countries that lack full monarch files Sure, but I think the main issue is countries that live as independent entities longer than they did historically. What if Brittany lives to 1820? You have to either use random monarchs or keep the last historical one. __________________ It is not bigotry to be certain we are right; but it is bigotry to be unable to imagine how we might possibly have gone wrong. ‑G.K. Chesterton, essayist and novelist (1874‑1936) Last edited by AndrewT; 12-06-2002 at 07:10.

12-06-2002, 07:30	#15
sirbruce Major Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 725	Well, see, I expected after the last historical monarch died, you'd get the random ones... I do see what you're saying. But, since you guys made up monarchs for certain countries for certain lineages, or used other minor dukes and the like, I don't see why we can't do it for countries that didn't remain independent. We can make some up, put them in (any guidelines on attributes?), and the programmers won't have to change anything codewise. Bruce