Hiensen's ruleset updated

[Hiensen]

Game rules for 36 campaign :



IMPORTANT !!!!

0.0 : This ruleset doesn't cover all aspects and holes of the game engine.It does just show the historical way to follow.So instead of creating dozens of new rules,the players must agree in playing fair,respecting their opponents and the gameplay,so any unfair action done or going to be done shall be discussed with players that will take the right decision in order to keep a nice way of playing.


IMPROVEMENTS AND DOCTRINES

0.1 : Coastal/land forts level max is 5
0.2 : It's forbidden to switch to another naval/land doctrines tree

SPECIAL RULES

0.3 : no nukes
0.4 : no rockets or flying bombs till 43


TRADES

1.1 :The 2nd day of the game Axis are the first to make trades,later come the allies
1.2 :The first trades already in place must be respected till the war between the two sides concerned
1.3 :The trades between GER/SU and USA/JAP must be free and fair till the war or embargo event(for usa)
1.4 :The Allies/Komintern are able to cancel some trades when their new factories put their ressource growth in the red


SPYS

2.1 : Coups or funding partisans(bugged) are not allowed on humans players
2.2 : Stealing techs are the only intelligence operation authorized on AI nations(AI isn't able to kill correctly the spies)


UNITS IN THE FRONT

3.1 : Urban Limit for stacking units is 36
3.2 : Amphibious landing is unlimited
3.3 : No SR through a territory that contain enemies ground units which are not retreating,or when you're bombed by air
3.4 : Recycling units(disband) is allowed only if they aren't already encircled or outflanked
3.5 : During peace time you must supplie ALL your OWN divisions,air and fleet in your OWNED provinces


DIPLOMACY

4.1 : No war till Danzig except for events
4.2 : Phoney wars isn't allowed,and when you are able to take last Victory Points or Anex do it quickly
4.3 : You must respect peace treaties and no agression pacts
4.4 : Selling units is forbiden when one of the two sides are in peace,except between UK-Commonwealth,China-JAP and ITA-GER
4.5 : When you join one Alliance you must stay in till the end
4.6 : Allies-Kommintern cannot grant military access to each other

GERMANY RULES

5.1 : Axis alliances allowed :

-Austria,Hungary,Romania,Bulgary,Italy,Argentina,Nationalist Spain,Finland(after the end of Winter War event),Japan(at Pearl Harbour event)

5.2 : Germany must accept to DOW Poland at Danzig event

5.3 : R/M pact go historical,germany is allowed to dow ussr from april 41

5.4 : Germany can break the R/M pact,if he do it bring forward USA entry by 6 months

ITALY RULES


6.1 : Italy can join axis at anytime after the Albania event

6.2 : Italy mustn't accept surrender event when his homeland is invaded(event bugged)

JAPAN RULES

7.1 : Japan independent alliances :

-Japan can't ally any Chinese warlord country in the middle earth,Siam is allowed by event

7.2 : Each side(JAP-SOV)must put one regular unit(not militia)per province in the whole bordering.No war between Jap-Sov dont significate that they must empty their respective borders.

7.3 : Japan must DOW Nat China at Marco Polo Bridge event

7.4 : Japan must accept no agression pact with SU at Khalkin Ghol event

7.5 : Japan may not DOW the SU until it has achieved the following strategic objectives: The capture of Guam, the annexation of the Philipines, the capture of Borneo, the annexation of the Dutch East Indies, the capture of Singapore, the capture of Rangoon, the capture of Port Moresby, and the Australian VP possessions.

7.6 : Japan can DOW Allies from May 41

7.7 : Japan can DOW USA at anytime after his DOW against allies

7.8 : Japan must accept surrender event when his homeland is invaded

UK RULES


8.1 : Allies alliances allowed :

-All countries the Axis DOW

and all countries in the world from 1944

USA RULES

9.1 : USA conditions to enter the Allies :

-Axis put a feet in North or South America
-UK homeland is being invaded at 50%+ by Axis
-3 months after when Japan DOW allies
-at Pearl Harbour event
-at december 41

9.2 : USA cannot garrison Philipines of units to respect the Japanese surprising attack and the rule that say you must supply all your troops in your own territory while at peace

9.3 : USA mustn't accept Yamamoto assassination if Pearl Harbour is under Japan hands


USSR RULES

10.1 : Komintern alliances allowed :

-Republican Spain,Brazil or all countries having marxist/stalinist ideology

10.2 : Each side(JAP-SOV)must put one regular unit(not militia)per province in the whole bordering.No war between Jap-Sov dont significate that they must empty their respective borders.

10.3 : SU must accept and honnor R/M Pact

10.4 : R/M go historical(full pact),USSR can dow germany at jan 42

10.5 : SU must wait and accept End of Winter WAR event and take his owned provinces,in the other hand if SU want to Bring Socialism,NAP is broken and germany can DOW USSR from april 40

10.6 : USSR can break R/M pact from Vichy event,if he do it put back USA entry by 6 months


NAT CHINA RULES

11.1 : China in case it's played by human from the start must accept peace event with Clan Gangxi



NB

If one of these rules isn't respected by one player the game will be SAVED and this player will get DISSENT by the edit of the save !

R/M ->ribbentrop molotov pact in 24 august 39
DOW->declaration of war
SR->strategic redeployment
NAP->no agression pact

[Hiensen]

New update of the ruleset :

-France may not be played by human
-in other hand USA can be played by human from munich event instead of Vichy event
-Japan can get one human player as China when it's puppet is created
-Japan can DOW USA at anytime after the DOW against the allies

[Stahlgewitter2]

IMO it's better to have USA human from start. There's not a lot a human player can do since the effective IC is crap until about 38, but at least he can prevent the wrong candidate from being elected in 1936, and make sure the AI doesn't build useless stuff.

[Axis Comrade]

As much as it pains me to do so , I have to aggree with Anders in respect to USA from 36. It was America's massive industrial capacity that eventually won the war for the allies in both the Pacific and Europe. A human USA can ensure that they still get they're massive industrial base instead of ending up with a heap of level 2 and 3 CV's ect ect while a good Japan will have heaps of far better level 4 and 5 CV's. Any American player from 36 faced off against a good Japan will have many drama's containing Japan let alone altering the balance of power in the European theater. SE.

[jackda]

Originally Posted by Hiensen

New update of the ruleset :

-France may not be played by human
-in other hand USA can be played by human from munich event instead of Vichy event
-Japan can get one human player as China when it's puppet is created
-Japan can DOW USA at anytime after the DOW against the allies

Once again if France AI = France fall in late 39 most of the time = Limited MR = Ger DOW SU in 1940 = exploit

Foremore China AI= China puppeted in 1938 = new axis player = 450 more Axis lands in 1942 =

[Stahlgewitter2]

point 10.3, as I have mentioned earlier, should only apply if SU is offered Historical M-R treaty. The SU only gains the Finnish provinces if limited, not cores on the Baltics, and Germany gets to DOW in 1940. Thus the Limited treaty is useless for SU.

(Point 10.5 should be clarified: the scripted NAP ends with the 'bring socialism' choice. )

[Hiensen]

If we get one USA player from 36,nat china must be played by one human from it's puppeting to balance the stuff in pacific.

[EggBandit]

heinsen, eggbandit here... I will play you in future! I am back up and running

MSN: eggbandit@hotmail.com (sorry, I dont know if you are allowed to give MSN over forum - please delete, if not) - remember me?

[Hiensen]

Ekoo !!!
Glad to know you're back but you posted in wrong thread !

[Hiensen]

Few modifications about R/M pact and USA war entry :

Germany :

5.3 : R/M pact go historical,germany is allowed to dow ussr from april 41

5.4 : Germany can break the R/M pact,if he do it bring forward USA entry by 6 months

USA :


9.1 : USA war entering conditions :

-Axis put a feet in North or South America
-UK homeland is being invaded at 50%+ by Axis
-3 months after when Japan DOW allies
-at Pearl Harbour event
-at december 41

USSR :


10.4 : R/M go historical(full pact),USSR can dow germany at jan 42

10.5 : SU must wait and accept End of Winter WAR event and take his owned provinces,in the other hand if SU want to Bring Socialism,NAP is broken and germany can DOW USSR from april 40

10.6 : USSR can break R/M pact from Vichy event,if he do it put back USA entry by 6 months

[jackda]

[quote=Hiensen]Few modifications about R/M pact and USA war entry :

Germany :

5.3 : R/M pact go historical,germany is allowed to dow ussr from april 41


10.5 : SU must wait and accept End of Winter WAR event and take his owned provinces,in the other hand if SU want to Bring Socialism,NAP is broken and germany can DOW USSR from april 40.[quote=Hiensen]



Yes , it's better to implement it in your rules (it can prevents some SU players to be insulted as it's written and clear) , you know that I don't really think it's a good rule BUT it may become interesting if you add an INTERDICTION for the German player to ENTER Finland during the whole war.

By the way .....if SU doesn't wait for the end of winter war NOR chose Bring Soc option , does it allow Germany to break the pact (NAP is already automaticaly broken when SU try to bring Soc to Finland)??????

[Hiensen]

By this way if su accept a peace offer from finland out of the end of winter war event,SU do nothing but break the rule.

[jackda]

Originally Posted by Hiensen

By this way if su accept a peace offer from finland out of the end of winter war event,SU do nothing but break the rule.

it may become interesting if you add an INTERDICTION for the German player to ENTER Finland during the whole war......(c'est un peu con de devoir se parler en anglais quand même )

[Stahlgewitter2]

Most German players doesn't seem to have a problem with SU peacing out prematurely with Finland. Or with Bring Them Socialism.

[Hiensen]

Stahlgewitter2 : Most German players doesn't seem to have a problem with SU peacing out prematurely with Finland. Or with Bring Them Socialism.

Personnally I don't have any problem with that since I'm not a Carelie fights addict...

and ? It's a way too easy to take out finland without any serious fights to defend Leningrad from finland/german advance.Some players considers that Finland is a chance to breakthough in north against a well prepared SU in 1941..

[jackda]

And with this restriction for SU "It's a way too easy to take out Leningrad without any serious fights "

[Hiensen]

You piss me off jackda,you play nothing but ussr so I think your point of view is a bit too interested and obtuse.As long as you don't have 2nd front with japs/chi I don't understand why you don't accept any possibilty open for you to get overun during first year by any germany as it hapenned historical.And wait for the patriotic war event to recover the red army prestige and take back the loss pieces of your motherheart lands.
Don't say such stupidities again in this thread,we are trying to get semi-historical games not any jackda USSR son.Forbide Finland to be allied with germany while they were historically allied is nothing but an ussr gamey attempt to keep safe his monolithic strategy that only consist to hold dvina and dnieppr river.
Btw don't quote me as example for the finland stuff because I almost never fight there with ger troops.just trying to have the stuffs clear,equal and quite simple for everyone.

And with this restriction for SU "It's a way too easy to take out Leningrad without any serious fights "

A german player has to seriously weakness central and south front to get enough troops in finland to surrender Leningrad and neighbours,if of course the soviet player has the willing to hold there ,rivers,urban,forest and low infra don't help much for a deep breakthough and will cost much mp.

[jackda]

Originally Posted by Hiensen

You piss me off jackda,you play nothing but ussr so I think your point of view is a bit too interested and obtuse.As long as you don't have 2nd front with japs/chi I don't understand why you don't accept any possibilty open for you to get overun during first year by any germany as it hapenned historical.And wait for the patriotic war event to recover the red army prestige and take back the loss pieces of your motherheart lands.
Don't say such stupidities again in this thread,we are trying to get semi-historical games not any jackda USSR son.Forbide Finland to be allied with germany while they were historically allied is nothing but an ussr gamey attempt to keep safe his monolithic strategy that only consist to hold dvina and dnieppr river.
Btw don't quote me as example for the finland stuff because I almost never fight there with ger troops.just trying to have the stuffs clear,equal and quite simple for everyone.



A german player has to seriously weakness central and south front to get enough troops in finland to surrender Leningrad and neighbours,if of course the soviet player has the willing to hold there ,rivers,urban,forest and low infra don't help much for a deep breakthough and will cost much mp.

Ouah! What a strong argumentation!
Are you threatening me master hiensen?

First , as Anders said , most (not coward?) German players don't give a f... about what USSR is doing in Finland

Second , in my rules (and only in there) there is restrictions for SU , preventig invasions of other countries ( bad effect on USA war entry)....."interested"? , "obtuse"?

third, you once reproached me to have done "my own" rules while i should have made you some propositions first, but when i'm trying to propose you to MODIFY A BIT one of your rule IN A MORE HISTORICAL WAY (OK for waiting winter war to finish but only if Ger doesn't enter Finland ) = "You piss me off" "interested and obtuse" , "Don't say such stupidities again in this thread"......pathetic

[Stahlgewitter2]

IMO, Russian puppeting or annexation of Finland should be penalized with delayed USA war entry by at least 3 months.

[Hiensen]

Originally Posted by Hiensen

New update of the ruleset :

-France may not be played by human
-in other hand USA can be played by human from munich event instead of Vichy event
-Japan can get one human player as China when it's puppet is created
-Japan can DOW USA at anytime after the DOW against the allies

Originally Posted by jackda

Once again if France AI = France fall in late 39 most of the time = Limited MR = Ger DOW SU in 1940 = exploit

Foremore China AI= China puppeted in 1938 = new axis player = 450 more Axis lands in 1942 =

Originally Posted by Hiensen

Few modifications about R/M pact and USA war entry :

Germany :

5.3 : R/M pact go historical,germany is allowed to dow ussr from april 41


10.5 : SU must wait and accept End of Winter WAR event and take his owned provinces,in the other hand if SU want to Bring Socialism,NAP is broken and germany can DOW USSR from april 40.

Originally Posted by jackda

Yes , it's better to implement it in your rules (it can prevents some SU players to be insulted as it's written and clear)<-not to mention this game while 3 players(usa included) told me to break the R/M pact and dow you in 40 instead of 41 to punish you for your gamey temptations <- , you know that I don't really think it's a good rule BUT it may become interesting if you add an INTERDICTION for the German player to ENTER Finland during the whole war.

By the way .....if SU doesn't wait for the end of winter war NOR chose Bring Soc option , does it allow Germany to break the pact (NAP is already automaticaly broken when SU try to bring Soc to Finland)??????

[quote=Hiensen]
By this way if su accept a peace offer from finland out of the end of winter war event,SU do nothing but break the rule.[quote=Hiensen]

Originally Posted by Jackda

it may become interesting if you add an INTERDICTION for the German player to ENTER Finland during the whole war......(c'est un peu con de devoir se parler en anglais quand même )

Looking at your previous post we can see how worried you are about everything that break your ''perfect'' setup and war strategy. I don't mention the non written INTERDICTION to DOW you in 40(as it is done in most of aussie,K2 and spartans games ) that show a no defeat paranoïd(almost understandable when you're able to perfectly setup your favourite country).
I know you're trying to defend your interests as USSR player and go ahead with arguments that give advantages to the allied side,but enough is enough,Finland is just a piece of land above your lovely leningrad,and it is historically allied with germany,so I repeat that I still don't understand why according to you it's forbidden to ally this country.
I'll not give you one history lesson but originally Barbarrossa was one surprising attack that messed up the Red Army,in this game it's not very possible to recreate this atmosphère and the surprise of the operation.Adding Finland as one another potential starting way of invasion is interesting to create the surprise,same with the possibility to break the pact(rule that I found interesting cuz SU can be very surprised while he is still doing his IC runs and it bring usa at war earlier).
In west front human France caused lots of problems in many games with other groups,having a germany killed in 40.We also delayed a too early entry of Italian in axis (forbiding at same time land docs abandon for ita).USA played by human was allowed too but the game is playable as long as axis postpone his gearings,including that japan must sacrify years of china build time to delay usa gear up.
The rules are step by step growing in quality and some aspects are daily tested by players that want fair games giving historical ways and a chance for each side to win.They didn't changed thx to the ''master hiensen'' but thanks to all players that accepted to test them and find/discover his holes ,not only spamming here as like a spoiled child while any evolution is done in the game.

N.B : I apologize if I hurted/insulted you jackda there,just got enough to see that for any few or big evolution in the rules I collect more trouble from old school ppl than encouragements for keeping them evoluting positivly.I'm also very tired those days and on nerves for some private reasons.I'm sorry.

Hiensen