Virtue and the Grim Consequences Thereof- Suggestions for Hero personality.

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Alfryd

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Jul 9, 2007
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Those of you familiar with The Goon will know what I'm talking about, but for more baffled members of the audience: This is a thread for discussing hero personalities, predelictions and consciences, defined in terms of virtue and vice, or by whatever means might spring to mind yourselves.

As belsewhere, I'm kind of assuming a background of former ideas on emotional/morale simulation, but the notions should be adaptable to a context more similar to Majesty at present.

In any case. At present, Majesty defines hero personalities by class, using the attributes of loyalty, greed, and various decision tree options to determine how a character reacts to given situations.
Instead, a character might have a selection of Virtues and Vices that determine what sort of activities they enjoy and so in turn, determine their general patterns of behaviour.

Virtues-
Conscience.
This character will attempt to treat others as he/she would themselves, even when perfect strangers or deadly enemies. Common to Paladins, Priestesses, Monks and Healers, rare among Cultists, Rogues, Adepts and WoDs.
Curiosity.
This character is drawn by the allure of the unknown and undiscovered, whether uncovering arcane knowledge, raiding ancient tombs or charting expanses of virgin forest. Common to Rangers, Wizards, Gnomes and WoDs, rare among Monks, Paladins, Warriors and Priestesses.
Humour.
The character's indefatigible good cheer and ability to make others laugh is usually an asset, but may be irksome when mood is poor unless handled with tact. Common to Rogues, Warriors, Elves and Gnomes, rare among Priestesses, Barbarians, Wizards and Solarii.
Courtesy.
This character is sensitive to protocol and does his/her utmost to remain at least superficially modest and approachable. Common to Paladins, Healers, Priestesses and Rangers, rare among Barbarians, Cultists, WoDs and Elves.
Honour.
This character keeps his/her word, speaks the truth and will not easily betray an avowed ally (regardless of personal feelings.) They also tend to shun vice and luxury, shun combat with the weak, and follow local laws. Common to Paladins, Barbarians, Rangers and Warriors, rare among Rogues, Priestesses, Cultists and Elves.
Sympathy.
This character forms positive relationships quickly, and deals tactfully with delicate emotional issues ...to the best of his/her ability. Common to Healers, Monks, Gnomes and Cultists, rare among Warriors, Adepts, Dwarves and Barbarians.
Invention.
This character has a knack for spontaneous, creative solutions, making them excellent liars but also gifted artists, poets, philosophers, sculptors or engineers. Common to Elves, Adepts, Cultists and Wizards, rare among Paladins, Dwarves, Gnomes and Warriors.

Vices-
Wrath.
This character is easily angered, more likely to berserk, and forms negative relationships quickly.
(This vice is useful for any character likely to engage in a lot of brute combat, such as WoDs, Barbarians, Dwarves and Warriors. Rare among Healers, Monks, Paladins and Priestesses.)
Lust.
This character is more likely to seek sexual excitement.
(This vice makes a character more likely to solicit harlots or frequent bordellos, but can be useful in close relationships. It tends to be common among Warriors, Elves, Cultists and Barbarians. Rare among Monks, Healers, Rangers and Wizards.)
Gluttony.
This character enjoys eating and drinking to excess. Without exercise they may develop a paunch.
(This character will frequent inns and taverns more often, and is not uncommon among Monks, Warriors, Dwarves and Cultists. Rare among Adepts, Elves, Paladins and Solari.)
Envy.
This character can't stand to see someone do better than themselves.
(This vice drives the character to outdo others in their circle of acquaintances for whom they have any dislike, either by crippling their rivals, or directed self-improvement. Typical among Cultists, Priestesses, Dwarves and Rogues. Rare among Healers, Paladins, Monks and Rangers.)
Sloth.
This character likes to kick back, relax, and do nothing that makes great demands on their attentions.
(This vice also promotes visits to inns, time spent resting at home, as a spectator to diversions, or generally avoiding great challenges. It characterises many Monks, Warriors, Elves, and Wizards. Rare among Rogues, Gnomes, Rangers and Barbarians.)
Avarice.
This character considers wealth to be an end in itself.
(All characters consider money and other trinkets to be useful, but this vice will cause a character to seek wealth long beyond the point where it provides meaningful benefits to them. Common to Rogues, Dwarves, Elves and WoDs. Rare among Healers, Paladins, Solari and Rangers.)
Vanity.
This character prefers that they (and others) focus on their accomplishments and ignore their failures.
(This vice makes statues to the character and other flattery more effective, including the appeal of ornament, and other general bling. Common to Elves, Barbarians, Solari and Warriors. Rare among Monks, Priestesses, Rangers and Wizards.)

Note: Satisfying a given Vice or Virtue confers greater-than-normal morale benefits to the character for doing so, while denying them confers greater-than-normal morale penalties. Also, many vices, while superficially drawbacks, make the character easy to influence through suitable rewards, whereas many virtues make the character unpredictable or difficult to manipulate.

A further idea is that a character might have specific vices tied to relationships with certain characters, and present to degrees. For instance, the character might feel Wrath toward an enemy, Sympathy toward a Friend, Lust or Curiosity toward a companion, and Envy toward a rival, (which suggests further directions for emotion simulation.) Personality would consist of 'default settings' for these sentiments, so to speak.
 
Great idea! The *only* things I "can" complain about are:

Dwarves should prob. be common to invention (you mention engineers)

Elves should prob. be common to gluttony (after all they go around from Inn to Inn singing and all)
 
Warriors seem too professional to have Wrath to me, but it's possible, I suppose it would change from person to person.

Is it possible for characters' vices and virtues to...misfire? For example, a sympathetic Cultist could feel bad for an animal and attack the hero it's fighting? Or an avaricious WoD would try looting crap from Animal Dens and Goblin Settlements while a nice Dark Castle lies nearby full of treasures?
 
Great idea! The *only* things I "can" complain about are:
Oh, the characterisations aren't perfect by far, but the idea was to give some idea of what to expect here. I tend to think of dwarves as too conservative and traditionalist to be inventive in the strictest sense, while elves visit inns to make money (Avarice) rather than to drink themselves senseless (Gluttony,) but it's possible.
Is it possible for characters' vices and virtues to...misfire?
Not only possible, but entirely probable. (However, one would imagine that looting a smaller stash and ignoring bigger payoff isn't Avarice so much as a problem of short-term thinking.) One problem I'm still left with is deciding what traits (if any) would determine how much a character likes to gamble.
 
I assume they'd still have the luck stat. Maybe a combination of luck and avarice? If you're lucky but don't care about money, you wouldn't gamble. And if you wanted money but were unlucky, you wouldn't gamble...for long.

And did you expect WoDs to think long-term?
 
Could Virtues and Vice some of the different strategies employed to achieve a set of genetic goals ? the actual virtue or vice employed would probably depend on personal priority and method of upbringing. Let's see what if we put things into a different light ... Remember for an observer there is no difference between the pretendence of a trait and the possession of a trait.

Conscience - Value one's allies - Prioritizings social position and network
Curiosity - enjoy figuring things out - Prioritizings knowledge
Humour - Being able to remove tension - Prioritizing network and mate finding
Courtesy - Being able to prevent tension - Prioritizing social position and network
Honor - Being able to appear trustworthy - Prioritizing social position
Sympathy - Can appear as an ally - Prioritizing mate finding and network
Invention - Can make ideas and get them to work - Prioritizing knowledge and wealth

Wrath - Can intimidate - Prioritizing social position
Lust - Can appear fit for reproduction - Prioritizing mate finding
Gluttony - Can quickly acquire energy - Prioritizing survival
Envy - Can remove competitors - Prioritizing social position
Sloth - Being effective at conserving energy - Prioritizing survival
Avarice - Being able at conserving wealth - Prioritizing wealth
Vanity - Being able to attract attention -Prioritizing network and social position

So all these can be modeled as "feat" kind of thing that boost specific type of skills but are restricted to alignment.

Of course, authorities don't like the the use of "vice", because they run societies and those who live by "vice" type strategy aren't all that good for societies. Therefore they find some way to eliminate their use, like developing morals and associating negative connotations towards them. They are quite valid as strategies, at least in societies that does not have a very developed moral and legal system.

:p

Anyhow, I can talk about this until someone find a way to have me arrested, but it doesn't change the fact we can model these as a set of skill or abilities.
 
Could Virtues and Vice some of the different strategies employed to achieve a set of genetic goals ?
You present an interesting breakdown of the various virtues/vices, but whether these would be considered 'genetic' is a different question.
The main idea is that Virtue/Vice descriptions, together with relationship dynamics, could essentially replace decision trees entirely and capture the same priorities in a more flexible fashion.
Anyhow, I can talk about this until someone find a way to have me arrested, but it doesn't change the fact we can model these as a set of skill or abilities.
Oh, certainly- actually, I think I discussed the possibilty in my skill-based levelling thread.

The main complication I would see is that, ideally, you would like characters to be able to modify their personality over time, through active effort and practice to curb or accentuate their natural tendencies, or aging/maturation, much as with the traits of strength, intelligence, appearance, etc. If these traits can be considered 'genetic', it follows that offspring could inherit such traits to a degree.
However, life cyrcles of this type simply haven't bee implemented in majesty thus far. I've no objection to the idea, but it's certainly a more extended discussion.