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Nilmerf

Lt. General
56 Badges
Jan 18, 2007
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Ever wonder why the A.I. just.. stops.. colonizing in about the mid-16th century? It's because they don't have any colonists! I loaded up as every major power in my game, and they all had max innovation. This also means that they don't have any missionaries either. I highly doubt this is solely because of events, the A.I. is actually moving the sliders; I noticed that most of them couldn't change policy for several years.

Unfortunately the mysterious A.I. is hardcoded, but maybe a band-aid solution would be to make missionaries/colonists right-specific on that slider.
 
Nilmerf said:
Unfortunately the mysterious A.I. is hardcoded, but maybe a band-aid solution would be to make missionaries/colonists right-specific on that slider.

But would it make sense? The missionaries represent the efforts of a narrowminded (stupid name, but anyway) domestic policy to bring heretics under the heel, and the colonists the outflow of emigrants due to religious persecution. After all, many of the first American colonists were religious refugees.

What the game needs is different AI personalities, such as "colonialist", "trader", "warmonger" etc.
 
KonradRichtmark said:
What the game needs is different AI personalities, such as "colonialist", "trader", "warmonger" etc.


EXACTLY! The "Dynamic AI" is supposed to play the game more like a person would..., and apparently the programmers don't know many people. In the real world, a dozen players would come up with at least 10 different ways to play their positions..., but the "unscripted" AI pretty much plays every position exactly the same. It's about as "dynamic" as a sack of potatoes.

Giving it various "personalities" that would pursue differing goals and strategies would go a long way towards restoring some dynamism and flavor to a rather predictible AI opponant.
 
It would be good if the number of colonists depended on other things as well. Like maybe the size of the country (Spain had alot more colonists than Portugal), number of colonies or other things that I havn't thought of. This would let countries still have colonists when they grow more innovative later in the game.
 
Minarchist said:
What is the 'Medical event'?

Im not sure what it is, but i NEVER get it... it serems to be restricted to the ai.
 
The "medical event" is called "Regulation of the Medical Profession." It's not AI-only; if you have a monarch with ADM 6 and aren't very narrowminded to begin with, it happens quite often. Since it's a province-based event, the bigger you are, the more often it happens.

That's really the big flaw with this event: with a 45% chance of getting +1 innovation per province you own, any medium-sized country will end up totally innovative very quickly.

Here it is:
Code:
#########################################################
#			Medical			  	#
#########################################################

province_event = {

	id = 5062

	trigger = {
		owner = {
			NOT = { innovative_narrowminded = -2 }
			adm = 6
		}
	}

	mean_time_to_happen = {
		months = 5000 # Random Province Event
		
		modifier = {
			factor = 0.5
			owner = { has_building = university }
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 0.5
			owner = { luck = yes }
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 1.5
			owner = { num_of_cities = 10 }
		}
		modifier = {
			factor = 1.5
			owner = { num_of_cities = 20 }
		}
	}

	title = "EVTNAME5062"
	desc = "EVTDESC5062"

	option = {
		name = "EVTOPTA5062"		# Our research will benefit population growth
		ai_chance = { factor = 55 }
		add_province_modifier = {
			name = "medical_evolution"
			duration = 500
		}
	}
	option = {
		name = "EVTOPTB5062"		# There is still room for improvement
		ai_chance = { factor = 45 }
		owner = { innovative_narrowminded = -1 }
	}
}
 
KonradRichtmark said:
But would it make sense? The missionaries represent the efforts of a narrowminded (stupid name, but anyway) domestic policy to bring heretics under the heel, and the colonists the outflow of emigrants due to religious persecution. After all, many of the first American colonists were religious refugees.
Maybe you misread me, I said make missionaries and colonists right-specific.. meaning that you only get them if you go narrowminded, but don't get negative numbers by going innovative.

And I don't agree that its only the medical event, because like I said.. the A.I. is actually moving the sliders. Load up as one and you'll see that you won't be able to move the slider for a few years.
 
dharper said:
The "medical event" is called "Regulation of the Medical Profession." It's not AI-only; if you have a monarch with ADM 6 and aren't very narrowminded to begin with, it happens quite often. Since it's a province-based event, the bigger you are, the more often it happens.

That's really the big flaw with this event: with a 45% chance of getting +1 innovation per province you own, any medium-sized country will end up totally innovative very quickly.

Here it is:
#########################################################
# Medical #
#########################################################

province_event = {

id = 5062

trigger = {
owner = {
NOT = { innovative_narrowminded = -2 }
adm = 6
}

If I understand EventScripting.doc correctly, this should fire for ADM>=6, and the innovative slider has to be in the -3, -4, or -5 position (i.e. almost full innovative already). That certainly explains why I've never seen it, since I've never been more than one tick on the innovative side. The big question is how the heck all the AI countries become innovative enough for the medical event to carry them the remaining two ticks to full innovative?

I think Nilmerf is correct in thinking that the AI moves its own sliders, and that for whatever reason it chooses to push innovative. Most European countries in my game were at -5, despite the fact that I commented out the innovative move in the medical event for almost the entire game. Castille at least appears to start at innovative=2, if I understand the history block of the save file correctly. For now, I did a search and replace for innovative_narrowminded=-5, shifting it to 0 (2 for Castille), but I doubt that will last. It's nice to see swarms of little colonist boats zipping around America, though.

Hmm, looking at my save game ten years after the edit, countries are already shifting. England and Castille have each moved one step towards innovative. I kept careful track, and the only medical events fired for Persia and Burgundy (though if the # at the start of a line comments out that line, it doesn't matter anyway...). I think we can safely conclude that the AI does indeed move its sliders, and that Paradox needs to make major changes in the AI slider priorities. Or make innovative a more viable position for that slider; Nilmerf's suggestion would be quite reasonable (gain colonists & missionaries for narrowminded, but don't lose them for innovative).
 
If a nation didn't loes colonies for innovativeness, wouldn't a lot of them still end up with 0 colonists, due to land/naval and merc/free trade settings?

A strange idea: For every tick towards innovative, you get +0.2 colonists. So full innovative gets +1 colonist, full narrowmindedness gets -1.

Counteract that with a +0.6 (or even 0.8) colonist per-tick for being narrowminded only, giving full innovative +1 colonist, and full narrowmindedness +2(or 3), with the lesser dramatic settings giving less colonists.

Not sure the reasoning behind such a setting, but it would ensure most AIs still got some colonists, while retaining some of the benefit of narrowminded?

Just a strange idea.
 
Well, I am glad to hear AI actually moves irs sliders that didn't happen in earlier games but if they solely concentrate on one slider, it isn't that great feature.

I don't know what would help besides taking the colonist penalty out of innovativeness slider.
 
Nilmerf said:
Maybe you misread me, I said make missionaries and colonists right-specific.. meaning that you only get them if you go narrowminded, but don't get negative numbers by going innovative.

And I don't agree that its only the medical event, because like I said.. the A.I. is actually moving the sliders. Load up as one and you'll see that you won't be able to move the slider for a few years.
I may actually mod in that first idea. But the fact that the ai has a few years to go before moving the inn/narr slider doesn't mean it moved that slider recently or even at all. It could have been any slider that was moved.

-Pat
 
1. The medical event may well have some influence on innovative/narrowminded sliders - as somebody had pointed out it is not quite right/fair to have a province event crop up fairly often to give a free slider move.

2. The ai does actually move sliders. I have played with a blend of Zwackus' and my own centralisation/decentralisation policy and noticed that a number of ai countries changed towards centralisation.

3. colonists from policies: I do not agree with the apportioning of colonists in vanilla where innovative mercantilist powers do not get colonists. The least would be to move the relative colonists boni to right specific (as Nilmerf suggests). However, I do not believe narrrowmindedness as such should get a colonist bonus, nor can I see how free trade orientation justifies it. Also I cannot see why catholics get 2 while protestants only get 1. The way colonists are dished out is also probably the reason why every minor European country forms colonies. The policy most likely to generate colonists in my opinion is free subjects (along with naval) because serfs are not free to go anywhere to form colonies.

4. colonists from national ideas: Personally I would prefer colonists to be available mostly through Quest of New World, Colonial Ventures (getting by far most) and Vice Roys national ideas and no colonists available based on religion. (Or an even number for all Christians for a European advantage. But I would prefer a minimum technology requirement for picking any of those ideas. Requirements for national ideas would be a nice improvement I believe).
Thus colonists would be available following a strategic political decision to colonise for any country and policy sliders would only modify that number somewhat.
 
Am I the only one so rash as to believe there should be a connection between population and available colonists? Of course there are many things that motivate people to head into the frontier, but in the end if 30% of the people in gotland are interested in colonial lives and vs 5% in spain, your still going to have a pretty big differential in favor of spain.
 
I edited the Medical event so it wouldn't shift toward Innovative... In my game is Ireland, there were four Colonial powers France, England, Portugal, and Spain. Spain was vassal/annexed by England, by the time discoveries reached me they had colonized good chunks of the Americas and continued to colonize till about 1530, then they just stopped :mad:
 
Maybe the AI always maxes Innovative because it gives the most (seperate) bonuses?

Iirc there was a similar issue with the NIs (often used sci-revolution?)??
 
Greenlake said:
I edited the Medical event so it wouldn't shift toward Innovative... In my game is Ireland, there were four Colonial powers France, England, Portugal, and Spain. Spain was vassal/annexed by England, by the time discoveries reached me they had colonized good chunks of the Americas and continued to colonize till about 1530, then they just stopped :mad:
Can you try loading up as these 4 powers and see if they have all maxed innovation? I am 99% sure that this is the reason for the problem, but just to confirm..