The Problem with "Release Countries" Peace Deal

[Exterous]

is that all the ones I've released seem suicidal.
Short backstory: The world hated the French and all decided to gang up on them (Arragon, England, Burgundy, Portugal, Austria). Portugal (me) with the help of 2 amazing generals managed to subdue most of the country side with the help of alot of mercs. But the economic cost was hideous and I wanted to avoid more wars. So I decided to do the 'release countries' option since I didn't want any cut off provinces France could DOW over. Normandy, Champaign and Toulouse were released (and brittany was still around) which made quite a dent in France.

Now the downside: Within 2 years, Champaign dow'd Burgandy, Toulouse dow'd Castille (which brought in Arragon, Sicily and the Papal States) and Normady dow'd France

Now I can either do nothing and see my neighbors get all the more powerful at the expense of my allies or I can intervine at the cost of -1 stab per ally war, fight (something which I have been trying to avoid) and watch my carefully maintained relations with my neighbors go down the tubes.

Another time- again at great cost to my nation- managed to beat back Castille and release Granada. Within a year they dow Castille again.

Are all released nations this suicidal or is it just mine?

[EvilSanta]

I believe you have terribly bad luck.

[BzAli]

I've seen it happen seceral times as well.

I believe the problem is that the newly released nation compares their alliances strength, which includes your victorous armies, with the strength of someone near them, such as the nation you've just crushed, which is therefore pretty weak: Since their alliance is much stronger than their opponent, they think "we can do this", and go for the DoW.

[naggy]

Once you release a nation, marry them, send gifts, and vassalize. Then they won't do that.

Alternatively, you can use their suicidalness in your favor: release someone in the middle of France...let them DoW France...smack France down again without waiting for that pesky truce to expire.

[Mike Scholl]

Originally Posted by Exterous

Are all released nations this suicidal or is it just mine?

Just remember the Cardinal Rule..., THE AI IS A MORON. You have to work actively to keep it from doing something stupid. See the advice above.

[Verenti]

Originally Posted by naggy

Once you release a nation, marry them, send gifts, and vassalize. Then they won't do that.

Alternatively, you can use their suicidalness in your favor: release someone in the middle of France...let them DoW France...smack France down again without waiting for that pesky truce to expire.

I did this with Greece and the Ottoman Turks. Worked like a charm, Allowed me to turbo annex the rest of their lands and bring the Balkans back to Christianity

[berhaven]

Or, if you really want to have "buffer states" around you, just get the provinces and release them as vassalls by yourself, then ally.
In any case I remember the very useful aggressivity of newly released states as peace resolution, when I could force - at Venice - behated Austria to release Netherlands. Left alone, the good Dutchs created a kind of a lot of troubles to other potential enemies like France, England, Castille/Spain and Portugal both in Europe and Overseas. I liked it.

[Verenti]

Originally Posted by berhaven

Or, if you really want to have "buffer states" around you, just get the provinces and release them as vassalls by yourself, then ally.
In any case I remember the very useful aggressivity of newly released states as peace resolution, when I could force - at Venice - behated Austria to release Netherlands. Left alone, the good Dutchs created a kind of a lot of troubles to other potential enemies like France, England, Castille/Spain and Portugal both in Europe and Overseas. I liked it.

The problem with that is: France is willing to release Normandy, Brittany and Toulouse for 75% but giving up all that land would be sacrilidge in one war. That's 10 provinces out of the French Mainland.

[The Impaler]

Originally Posted by BzAli

I've seen it happen seceral times as well.

I believe the problem is that the newly released nation compares their alliances strength, which includes your victorous armies, with the strength of someone near them, such as the nation you've just crushed, which is therefore pretty weak: Since their alliance is much stronger than their opponent, they think "we can do this", and go for the DoW.

That's right - it's what they do. As soon as possible, break the alliance and then guarantee their independence instead. That will keep them quiet but let you fight for them if necessary.

[juvefan]

Since the new patch, I've stopped asking nations to be released, especially those that only will have one province. With the auto-alliance upon release, they usually go looking for trouble thinking big brother will watch their backs, but sometimes big brother is tired of fighting yet would hate to see a nation they recently liberated get annexed again. I usually just ask for the province, and develop it with regimental camps, tax assessors, and level 3 forts (as long as tech levels allow), before releasing them as vassals.

[The Impaler]

Demanding release of one province nations is often a waste of time, since the province isn't worth much more than it costs to demand the release.

[Mr. Domino]

I was just going to post a topic about how releasing nations was too good and here I find this pessimism!

I guess people have been having different experiences then me. In my novgorod game I won a 80% warscore against sweden and occupied half the country. Now I could get 3 to 4 wrong culture/religion provinces, some with no forts, or I could release Finland with a half a dozen provinces and cut Sweden in half. Needless to say I released Finland. Even if Sweden kills it (unlikely) they would have to fight an exhausting series of wars and take some BB.

I guess it all depends on the size of the nations released. I can see how releasing "suicidal" navarra would be a waste of time, but forcing Spain to release Aragorn, or the Ottomans Greece, well those countries wouldn't be suicidal, since in some cases they would be real threats to the nation you just defeated and a huge loss of income/manpower. It's a little weird though when the AI is only willing to give you a few provinces but will basically let their nation be cut into a half or into thirds in peace deals though.

[BzAli]

The suicidal minors could be solved by having the newly released nation and the motherland sign a truce. That way, at least the new nation had a chance to build an army before they decided to commit suicide...

[naggy]

On the flip side, making someone release all of Ming would be cheap at the cost.

[Samuil]

Originally Posted by Exterous

Are all released nations this suicidal or is it just mine?

After i released moldavia from the ottomans (along with cyprys and with some land for me (after a 100% victory),
not even a month had gone by and moldavia DoWed the Ottomans...
I decided to join, and to my amazement, i did not loose any stability, and my troops were already in the ottoman provinces they were besieging(they were leaving them, but i ordered them back ), so in less than a year, the ottomans were defeated with a 100% once again (gained a lot of territory this time)
I beleive that with the latest patch you don`t loose stability for joining a war if you break a truce

[Exterous]

Hmmmm....I hadn't thought of some of the benefits to this. Still, some of them seem a bit gamey. Besides, what country in their right mind declares war on france, or spain of the ottoman empire with no standing army after being in existance for about 1 month as a country. I think adding the truce idea is a good one

[Cp6uja]

12th of the december finishing bloody 3 year war with Spain,and asking them to release netherlands i just realised that i just spent all that time for nothing.Netherlands is just one province,comparing to Holland's 4-5 province state.all i did was alt+f4 and went out for a ciggarete break.

[Samuil]

Originally Posted by Exterous

Hmmmm....I hadn't thought of some of the benefits to this. Still, some of them seem a bit gamey. Besides, what country in their right mind declares war on france, or spain of the ottoman empire with no standing army after being in existance for about 1 month as a country. I think adding the truce idea is a good one

Well, moldavia instantly got 1k army when they gained independance (mercenaries or something else, I dont know), while the ottomans had No army, only ships...
So, having in mind that they have a powerfull ally, and the enemy has no standing army, they were actually very smart to DoW the ottomans. As for DoWing france or castille, that is a different matter...
And Србија, you should have checked the provinces for the cores before demanding the release of a nation(i know i always do it)

[Cp6uja]

version 1.1

no core provinces shown before 1.2.1 patch.now i not only check for cores but i instantly fabricate claims on them in case enemy don't release it.paranoia did her job

[Wolf52]

The thing i notice is that usually if i release two countries in a peace deal and they border each other, they will usually declare war on each other. Highly annoying, especially if theyve only been free for two months...