My Vassal Vassalised by Another...is this WAD?

Marshall Thomas · 10-04-2007, 02:45

Last night during my campaign as England, France and her allies went to war with Britany and an Irish minor. I delared war on Britany and her Irish ally two months later- I was not part of the French alliance. After capturing the Irish minor's only province, I decided to force vassalise it -instead of annexing- in a seperate peace which didn't include Britany(the alliance leader).

About two months later, France forced vassalised my new Irish vassal! How could France vassalise a country which was already my vassal? Is this WAD? Did it happen because France was at war with the Irish minor before my England was? Thanks in adavnce

Darkrenown · 10-04-2007, 03:31

Playing something older than 1.2? Vassals can't make peace post 1.2, they're in the war untill their master makes peace. Since force-vassalisation is a peace option it shouldn't be possible, so if you do have 1.2 or 1.2.1 it sounds like a bug.

DrunkenOne · 10-04-2007, 04:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkrenown

Playing something older than 1.2? Vassals can't make peace post 1.2, they're in the war untill their master makes peace. Since force-vassalisation is a peace option it shouldn't be possible, so if you do have 1.2 or 1.2.1 it sounds like a bug.

Its not a bug. A master cannot make peace if he isn't at war. Look at it this way. Country A vassalizes country B but does not ally. Country C decs country B. Country C fully occupies country B. Country C force vassalizes country B which is fully occupied with 100% warscore and has to accept. Country B is now the vassal of country C. Its the same thing as an enemy annexing your vassal, except maybe your vassal was 2 provinces and couldnt be annexed.

juvefan · 10-04-2007, 04:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkrenown

Playing something older than 1.2? Vassals can't make peace post 1.2, they're in the war untill their master makes peace. Since force-vassalisation is a peace option it shouldn't be possible, so if you do have 1.2 or 1.2.1 it sounds like a bug.

I don't think it's a bug either. The Irish Minor was nobody's vassal when France and the OP playing as England declared war. When the OP force-vassalized the Irish Minor, France was still at war. There is no way France could negotiate with the Irish Minor's new master since they were never at war to begin with. So it might not really be a bug, more of a design error that didn't see this scenario happening.

There should be an option after force-vassalizing a country at war with more than one nation/alliance of nations to ask in order:

1. the enemies of the vassal whether they would like to press on with the war now that their enemy is the vassal of another country. If they say yes,

2. the master would now be asked whether he would like to help out his new vassal who is currently at war. If you decline,

3. the vassal should be free to swear allegiance to a new master if he is defeated.

Marshall Thomas · 10-04-2007, 08:11

Thanks for your responses. I am using the 1.21 patch.

If this is WAD, then I suppose I could force-vassalise a nation that became the vassal of another nation if I was already at war with that nation before it was vassalised. In other words, the new vassalisation is not recoginised until hostilities cease.

The worst thing about my situation is that I wasted 70% warscore on vassalation. Also- France now has a vassal in Ireland; I went to war for the sole purpose of preventing this state of affairs. I should have annexed, but I didn't want the BB because I'm trying to increase my income from trade. Even five or six BB can really hurt trade if your not near the top of the trade tech race.

vercetti · 10-04-2007, 10:45

have to disagree with the rest here, as of 1.2 you cannot negotiate with someone else's vassal. my hunch is this doesn't work correctly yet, either in combination with not being allied, or because you only vassalized them during the war (ie restrictions only kick in once you are at peace).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marshall Thomas

Thanks for your responses. I am using the 1.21 patch.

If this is WAD, then I suppose I could force-vassalise a nation that became the vassal of another nation if I was already at war with that nation before it was vassalised. In other words, the new vassalisation is not recoginised until hostilities cease.

The worst thing about my situation is that I wasted 70% warscore on vassalation. Also- France now has a vassal in Ireland; I went to war for the sole purpose of preventing this state of affairs. I should have annexed, but I didn't want the BB because I'm trying to increase my income from trade. Even five or six BB can really hurt trade if your not near the top of the trade tech race.

Darkrenown · 11-04-2007, 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrunkenOne

Its not a bug. A master cannot make peace if he isn't at war.

You're right, I misread the first post and somehow thought the OP was at war with France too. Still, I'd agree with Juve that it's at least a design oversight.

10-04-2007, 02:45	#1
Marshall Thomas Colonel Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,062	My Vassal Vassalised by Another...is this WAD? Last night during my campaign as England, France and her allies went to war with Britany and an Irish minor. I delared war on Britany and her Irish ally two months later- I was not part of the French alliance. After capturing the Irish minor's only province, I decided to force vassalise it -instead of annexing- in a seperate peace which didn't include Britany(the alliance leader). About two months later, France forced vassalised my new Irish vassal! How could France vassalise a country which was already my vassal? Is this WAD? Did it happen because France was at war with the Irish minor before my England was? Thanks in adavnce

10-04-2007, 03:31	#2
Darkrenown Reichsmarschall Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Marching to Moscow Posts: 14,420	Playing something older than 1.2? Vassals can't make peace post 1.2, they're in the war untill their master makes peace. Since force-vassalisation is a peace option it shouldn't be possible, so if you do have 1.2 or 1.2.1 it sounds like a bug. __________________ Relentless madman. Byzantium – A tale of restoration and reconquest. Venice: War and trade. HttT beta AAR. (pics should be working again now) Unofficial HttT fixes. No longer needed with 4.1, but if you've been using this and now have 4.1 you need to undo a change. HRE reforms mod. Making it harder to unite the HRE. Bonus magistrates from Universitys and roads. Auto-build roads. Latest HttT beta patch: 22nd dec.

10-04-2007, 08:11	#5
Marshall Thomas Colonel Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 1,062	Thanks for your responses. I am using the 1.21 patch. If this is WAD, then I suppose I could force-vassalise a nation that became the vassal of another nation if I was already at war with that nation before it was vassalised. In other words, the new vassalisation is not recoginised until hostilities cease. The worst thing about my situation is that I wasted 70% warscore on vassalation. Also- France now has a vassal in Ireland; I went to war for the sole purpose of preventing this state of affairs. I should have annexed, but I didn't want the BB because I'm trying to increase my income from trade. Even five or six BB can really hurt trade if your not near the top of the trade tech race.