I just got my ass kicked by Germany.

Tjuk · 31-03-2007, 01:13

Playing as Belgium I just got a nice lesson in keeping relations up and badboy low. Sob

After winning two wars against Germany in the late game, as part of a coalition of France, Great Britain and Austria I became careless and started rounding up the last parts of Holland still left (after taking all it's colonies and the southern part). The War Indemnities i got from Germany were great and I managed to make a nice little colonial empire for myself out of the pacific islands plus a strong defensive perimeter of double trenches stretching from Arlon to the north sea guarded by two divisions with engineers. I thought that would be enough to keep the Hun out. I was wrong.

As the last year of the peace treaty approached al the guarantees of independence I got from the UK, France and Austria expired (they got to make some sort of warning for this). Furthermore it seemed Germany learned from it's previous mistake and started making allies, first Austria and then Italy. When they declared war no one dared to ally with me. My defense proofed futile as the Germans rolled over them (they had gas and stormtroopers, which I didn't at the moment) but by shifting my main body of troops along the line I managed to hold out for almost a year. After that I just ran out of manpower and they steamrolled me. The demanded the whole damn country minus two provinces in the peace settlement. Damn, I have never ever seen the AI prepare and then execute a war this well. Although my game has been ruined it was great fun.

*OHgamer* · 31-03-2007, 01:23

Just curious which version of Victoria were you playing?

Sternness · 31-03-2007, 01:26

Wow, allies and everything. It's almost as if he knew you were a human player and decided to prepare well for that reason!

Tjuk · 31-03-2007, 01:34

This was in Ricky on normal/normal.

Normally in late game a fully entrenched division in trenches can keep out a full stack of enemy divisions, but the Germans were technologically superior and managed to have a higher bonus in almost all the fights, attacking and defending. Even when the gas invention triggered it gave me just a +10 while they had a +50 and also a +150 for infiltration and stormtroopers. It was really unfair because I managed to catch up to them tech wise but the inventions just hadn't fired yet.

Come to think of it, it was even worse. The AI deceived me. Up till the last months of the peace treaty Germany had the same military score as I did, since a lot of it's divisions were lost in the last war. So I thought they would never attack me, now that my position was that strong. Then they started churning out divisions by the hundreds. Leading up to the war in less then a month their military score rose form 80 to 210. When I checked it again when they declared I was astonished. The AI really saw the end of the treaty coming and planned accordingly.

Victor1234 · 31-03-2007, 05:10

Ya, the massive military rebuilding of a country in Victoria goes way too quickly. I had a Victoria 1.4 game with VIP once, where I destroyed almost the entire UK military. They had one obsolete man-of-war in Ceylon, and a handful of divisions scattered around the world, stuck for lack of transport. I, along with my Dutch, Italian and French allies, landed in various parts of the UK and took to occupying....only, they literally rebuilt their land forces within the span of 2-3 months, after having about a hundred and fifty divisions destroyed, and my now-outnumbered and worn out divisions were forced to withdraw....I loaded up as the UK, saw they had a high revolt risk, barely any money, yet were rebuilding their navy too.

Although, I doubt stuff like this is possible in Victoria Revolutions (haven't really played a full game yet), as the British can no longer conscript the several million Indians in their Empire.

henryjai · 01-04-2007, 05:47

i think use all your time build forts and try to hold on...

KushanHiigara · 01-04-2007, 06:49

I hate to be a bit of a jerk, but isn't the title rather fitting if you're playing as one of the low countries? *Grins and ducks* Sorry lads, couldn't resist. But it is really cool to see the A.I. seemingly reacting in such a manner, I can't say I've noticed anything too similar, maybe I need to watch them more closely...

Gotikiller · 01-04-2007, 09:23

Just out of curiosity, did you force them to disarm as apart of the peace treaty? That might explain why they all of a sudden churned out 300 divisions after the peace treaty expired.

Tjuk · 01-04-2007, 11:45

No, I didn't. But I made a separate peace so maybe some of my allies did, although I have never seen the AI do anything different than take land in a peace settlement.

mnplastic · 01-04-2007, 12:01

AI never offered to be satellite but it did humiliated me. I saw AI humiliating others and also satelliting them.

I have never seen asking for war indemnities or disarmament. I think this is because AI tends to finish war before it achieves higher war score.

Tjuk · 01-04-2007, 12:05

You need a higher war score to satellite than for demanding indemnities or disarmament.

I replayed from an old save game last night and didn't take the last dutch provinces. In stead I two step annexed Sokoto (cost me 200 prestige

) and released them, lowering my BB to nill. Great, I could have taken the dutch provinces and still get zero BB by releasing Sokoto, but to little time. It's less than a year before the peace treaty with Germany.

I spent a couple of diplo points on champagne and speckknodeln so within half a year I am defensively allied with France and Austria. Earlier on the dutch started a colonial war which didn't mean much military except I blocked their ports, sunk their navy and in the end took Curacao after which they offered me their remaining colonies. On the diplomatic front it did matter, as the British dared to ignore their guarantee of independence so my relations with the UK have taken a plunge and I don't expect to have them up before the peace with Germany expires.

Okay, time to get my defenses ready. First I need my military tech up to par with the Germans. After a quick glance at the tech charts I see I have the same tech level as Germany, and France, England, Russia and Austria for that matter. Damn this new system of order of inventions, with all those major powers above me in the ranking it will take forever before i get all the inventions. Good thing is that for the moment the military techs are maxed out at 20. It will take at least another year before the next 5 techs are available for research.

A made a number of extra divisions with engineers and keep them fully manned in their trenches along the German border. Slowly the moment of the end of the peace settlement draws near. Ctrl ++++, okay the moment has come. Nothing happens. The Germans still have a very low military score and they havened made any allies. Maybe the last time was just a really special moment for the AI. Well in that case let's antagonize them a little bit. I need them to DOW me because my alliances are defensive, but i really want to find out if I can beat them this time. So I prepare to attack Holland for their last provinces and to get my BB up.

Message box, France has annexed Anan, Flash*black*error message* NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

mnplastic · 01-04-2007, 14:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tjuk

You need a higher war score to satellite than for demanding indemnities or disarmament.

Yes, but maybe Satellite and Humiliation are priorities, so if AI achieves high score it chooses the first two.

Ichon · 01-04-2007, 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by mnplastic

Yes, but maybe Satellite and Humiliation are priorities, so if AI achieves high score it chooses the first two.

I don't know if AI follows the warscores exactly for a peace settlement. I've had it demand huge area of my country becuase I had been fighting another war when the AI DoW me and so my war exhaustion was quite a bit higher than it. It had only occupied one province and I settled the other war and was moving divisions back when it's peace settlement came. It also included humiliation, but I've never been offered satellite.

Same way as if you are fighting the AI sometimes you don't need to occupy their whole country, just a few provinces and wait for the AI divisions, pocket and eliminate them driving their war exhaustion up and even with less than 50 warscore but over 40% war exhaustion you can demand humiliation, satellite, and a few provinces.

Covski · 01-04-2007, 22:29

Wait, as far as I've understood, demobilisation is broken and has no effect? Am I missing something here?

Ichon · 02-04-2007, 03:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Covski

Wait, as far as I've understood, demobilisation is broken and has no effect? Am I missing something here?

I think you mean the demobilization that reduces number of divisions in reserves is broken right? He was just meaning after he'd called his reserves up to fight... you can't dembolize those while still in a war. Can be a bad situation if you get in a colony war at the same time as a war vs majors that you needed to call reserves for... the colony war last forever and you go huge into debt not being able to demobilize your reserves.

Covski · 02-04-2007, 17:06

Uh, yeah. I was thinking about forced disarmament, not demobilisation. That's what I get from being tired and not reading threads thoroughly enough, I s'pose ;o

Tjuk · 02-04-2007, 21:14

If I understand correctly this feature was fixed in Ricky and now if you choose forced disarmament the enemies mobilization pool is reset to 0.

31-03-2007, 01:13	#1
Tjuk Captain Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Eindhoven, Brabant Posts: 370	I just got my ass kicked by Germany. Playing as Belgium I just got a nice lesson in keeping relations up and badboy low. Sob After winning two wars against Germany in the late game, as part of a coalition of France, Great Britain and Austria I became careless and started rounding up the last parts of Holland still left (after taking all it's colonies and the southern part). The War Indemnities i got from Germany were great and I managed to make a nice little colonial empire for myself out of the pacific islands plus a strong defensive perimeter of double trenches stretching from Arlon to the north sea guarded by two divisions with engineers. I thought that would be enough to keep the Hun out. I was wrong. As the last year of the peace treaty approached al the guarantees of independence I got from the UK, France and Austria expired (they got to make some sort of warning for this). Furthermore it seemed Germany learned from it's previous mistake and started making allies, first Austria and then Italy. When they declared war no one dared to ally with me. My defense proofed futile as the Germans rolled over them (they had gas and stormtroopers, which I didn't at the moment) but by shifting my main body of troops along the line I managed to hold out for almost a year. After that I just ran out of manpower and they steamrolled me. The demanded the whole damn country minus two provinces in the peace settlement. Damn, I have never ever seen the AI prepare and then execute a war this well. Although my game has been ruined it was great fun.

31-03-2007, 01:23	#2
OHgamer Victoria's Plastic Surgeon Moderator Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: In Columbus OH, but dreaming of the White Isle..... Posts: 15,777	Just curious which version of Victoria were you playing? __________________ Victoria Revolutions Unofficial Hotfix 6 (7 Jul 07 includes all previous hotfixes) Victoria 1.4 Unofficial Hotfixes (NOT for Revolutions) : All in one (UPDATED 21 Feb 07) Power By Production 2.0 A VIP:R AAR Clio : A map project for Victoria:Revolutions by XieChengnuo and OHGamer Latest Updates Clio's Iron Heart : A map project for Hearts of Iron 3 by OHgamer and XieChengnuo VickyWiki : The best guide to Victoria's intricacies and foibles. The Official Forum For CORE and VIP VIP:R 0.3 for Victoria Revolutions Hotfix #1 (released 27 Jul 09) Vic:Rev 2.01 + VIP:R 0.3 + VIP:R 0.3 Hotfix 1 = Correct install order for VIP:R Dietmar1982's rework of Gotikiller's POP splitter tool - split Victoria POPs the easy way

31-03-2007, 01:26	#3
Sternness War Poet Join Date: May 2004 Location: Ottawa, Canada Posts: 126	Wow, allies and everything. It's almost as if he knew you were a human player and decided to prepare well for that reason! __________________ 1 Craftsman Nationality: Anglo-Canadian Religion: Theravada Ideology: Liberal Issues: Full Citizenship/Pluralism Current Work: Paper Factory Cash Reserve: £0.00 Revoltrisk: 5.00% Militancy: 0 (0.00) Consciousness: 10 (-1.00) Solved: His innera cnotta

31-03-2007, 01:34	#4
Tjuk Captain Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Eindhoven, Brabant Posts: 370	This was in Ricky on normal/normal. Normally in late game a fully entrenched division in trenches can keep out a full stack of enemy divisions, but the Germans were technologically superior and managed to have a higher bonus in almost all the fights, attacking and defending. Even when the gas invention triggered it gave me just a +10 while they had a +50 and also a +150 for infiltration and stormtroopers. It was really unfair because I managed to catch up to them tech wise but the inventions just hadn't fired yet. Come to think of it, it was even worse. The AI deceived me. Up till the last months of the peace treaty Germany had the same military score as I did, since a lot of it's divisions were lost in the last war. So I thought they would never attack me, now that my position was that strong. Then they started churning out divisions by the hundreds. Leading up to the war in less then a month their military score rose form 80 to 210. When I checked it again when they declared I was astonished. The AI really saw the end of the treaty coming and planned accordingly. Last edited by Tjuk; 31-03-2007 at 01:46.

31-03-2007, 05:10	#5
Victor1234 Ezredes Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,140	Ya, the massive military rebuilding of a country in Victoria goes way too quickly. I had a Victoria 1.4 game with VIP once, where I destroyed almost the entire UK military. They had one obsolete man-of-war in Ceylon, and a handful of divisions scattered around the world, stuck for lack of transport. I, along with my Dutch, Italian and French allies, landed in various parts of the UK and took to occupying....only, they literally rebuilt their land forces within the span of 2-3 months, after having about a hundred and fifty divisions destroyed, and my now-outnumbered and worn out divisions were forced to withdraw....I loaded up as the UK, saw they had a high revolt risk, barely any money, yet were rebuilding their navy too. Although, I doubt stuff like this is possible in Victoria Revolutions (haven't really played a full game yet), as the British can no longer conscript the several million Indians in their Empire. __________________ The Hungarian Modifications Pack for HOI2: DD Download here or here The Hungarian Quartet: A History of Hungary from 1066 to 1953

01-04-2007, 05:47	#6
henryjai General Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Hong Kong Posts: 2,016	i think use all your time build forts and try to hold on... __________________ AAR: The French Revolution WIF mod: Soviet Union-kill the fascists Both AARs are dead.

01-04-2007, 06:49	#7
KushanHiigara Sergeant Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: The Forgotten Realms Posts: 93	I hate to be a bit of a jerk, but isn't the title rather fitting if you're playing as one of the low countries? Grins and ducks Sorry lads, couldn't resist. But it is really cool to see the A.I. seemingly reacting in such a manner, I can't say I've noticed anything too similar, maybe I need to watch them more closely... __________________ To look into the eyes of a wolf is to see your own soul - hope you like what you see.

01-04-2007, 09:23	#8
Gotikiller Captain Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 483	Just out of curiosity, did you force them to disarm as apart of the peace treaty? That might explain why they all of a sudden churned out 300 divisions after the peace treaty expired. __________________ An American from the East Side. 1 Clerk Nationality: Carpathian/Polish/Lithuanian (aka American =p ) Religion: Jewish Ideology: Liberal Revoltrisk: 0.0% Militancy: 5 (+0.05) Counsciousness: 10 (+1.20)

01-04-2007, 11:45	#9
Tjuk Captain Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Eindhoven, Brabant Posts: 370	No, I didn't. But I made a separate peace so maybe some of my allies did, although I have never seen the AI do anything different than take land in a peace settlement.

01-04-2007, 12:01	#10
mnplastic Colonel Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 966	AI never offered to be satellite but it did humiliated me. I saw AI humiliating others and also satelliting them. I have never seen asking for war indemnities or disarmament. I think this is because AI tends to finish war before it achieves higher war score.

01-04-2007, 12:05	#11
Tjuk Captain Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Eindhoven, Brabant Posts: 370	You need a higher war score to satellite than for demanding indemnities or disarmament. I replayed from an old save game last night and didn't take the last dutch provinces. In stead I two step annexed Sokoto (cost me 200 prestige ) and released them, lowering my BB to nill. Great, I could have taken the dutch provinces and still get zero BB by releasing Sokoto, but to little time. It's less than a year before the peace treaty with Germany. I spent a couple of diplo points on champagne and speckknodeln so within half a year I am defensively allied with France and Austria. Earlier on the dutch started a colonial war which didn't mean much military except I blocked their ports, sunk their navy and in the end took Curacao after which they offered me their remaining colonies. On the diplomatic front it did matter, as the British dared to ignore their guarantee of independence so my relations with the UK have taken a plunge and I don't expect to have them up before the peace with Germany expires. Okay, time to get my defenses ready. First I need my military tech up to par with the Germans. After a quick glance at the tech charts I see I have the same tech level as Germany, and France, England, Russia and Austria for that matter. Damn this new system of order of inventions, with all those major powers above me in the ranking it will take forever before i get all the inventions. Good thing is that for the moment the military techs are maxed out at 20. It will take at least another year before the next 5 techs are available for research. A made a number of extra divisions with engineers and keep them fully manned in their trenches along the German border. Slowly the moment of the end of the peace settlement draws near. Ctrl ++++, okay the moment has come. Nothing happens. The Germans still have a very low military score and they havened made any allies. Maybe the last time was just a really special moment for the AI. Well in that case let's antagonize them a little bit. I need them to DOW me because my alliances are defensive, but i really want to find out if I can beat them this time. So I prepare to attack Holland for their last provinces and to get my BB up. Message box, France has annexed Anan, Flashblackerror message* NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Last edited by Tjuk; 01-04-2007 at 12:42.

01-04-2007, 22:29	#14
Covski Recruit Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3	Wait, as far as I've understood, demobilisation is broken and has no effect? Am I missing something here?

02-04-2007, 17:06	#16
Covski Recruit Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 3	Uh, yeah. I was thinking about forced disarmament, not demobilisation. That's what I get from being tired and not reading threads thoroughly enough, I s'pose ;o

02-04-2007, 21:14	#17
Tjuk Captain Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Eindhoven, Brabant Posts: 370	If I understand correctly this feature was fixed in Ricky and now if you choose forced disarmament the enemies mobilization pool is reset to 0.