Unit type: Ottoman Yaya

Garuda · 08-02-2007, 11:40

In both Frease's unit list in the FAQ and on EU3 Wiki, the Ottoman Yaya unit of infantry has zero offensive and deensive values for both shock and fire.

Is this an error or is the unit entirely useless?

If the factors are correct, why would a player raise a regiment of Yaya? I'm wondering whether the AI would use them as a 'buffer' unit in combat to soak up casulaties maybe.

Varam · 08-02-2007, 11:47

The unit doesn't have any shock or fire, but it does have a point of offensive and defensive morale, so it's not entirely useless.

margab · 08-02-2007, 11:49

The stats you saw are correct. Here is the stats from the Ottoman_Yaya file under your /Common/Units folder:

Code:

# Ottoman Yaya

type = infantry
technology_group = eastern

maneuver = 1
offensive_morale = 1
defensive_morale = 1
offensive_fire = 0
defensive_fire = 0
offensive_shock = 0
defensive_shock = 0

This doesn't mean that I don't agree with you. I mean come on, was yaya infantry just meat shield? It should at least have some shock (actually it should have fire since the yaya infantry also consisted of archers too, but the game's handling of archers in general is a different story by itself).

Varam · 08-02-2007, 11:51

Note that the Yaya Infantry are identical to Western Medieval Infantry, and you only have to use either of them until land tech 1.

Garuda · 08-02-2007, 12:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Varam

The unit doesn't have any shock or fire, but it does have a point of offensive and defensive morale, so it's not entirely useless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Varam

Note that the Yaya Infantry are identical to Western Medieval Infantry, and you only have to use either of them until land tech 1.

The next unit type up is the Azab tech=2. If you meant Eastern Medieval infantry, it does have a point of offensive shock, whilst the yaya has nothing.

If the Yaya's only redeeming feature is 1 point of morale it can only stand there and be demoralised before losing every battle as it is incapable of defending itself and has no offensive value. It has to be mixed with other troop types to be of any value at all. Is the yaya cheap to raise and maintain in ratio to the Eastern medieval nfantry unit?

Pingwin · 08-02-2007, 12:26

I thought defensive moral is the moral damage you do to the other guys while defending yourself. Not the moral your unit has until it breaks. So the yaya is a simple infantry unit doing both on the attack and defense moral damage to the enemy. Not the most effective unit, but with capacities both attacking and defeding.

As infantry shock is rather reduced in the early years (and you don't build yaya's later) the moral damage is really what decides the battle. If you want to kill, kill, kill that's what cav is for, not shock 1 infantry.

Samuil · 08-02-2007, 12:30

but the yaya does upgrade automaticaly when you discover a new land tech, right?

Varam · 08-02-2007, 12:30

Sorry, I meant land tech 2.

I meant Western Medieval Infantry. Eastern Medieval Infantry does have 1shock, but it loses the point of defensive morale in exchange. I can't say whether that's better or worse.

Remember that the morale stats are used offensively to deplete the enemy's morale.

Garuda · 08-02-2007, 13:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Varam

Remember that the morale stats are used offensively to deplete the enemy's morale.

Ah. thats interesting thanks. So the values are the units ability to inflict morale damage? I didn't realise it worked that way. I thought the morale values were the unit's own base value in attack or defense accordingly. I didn't know that they were used as you have described.

Garuda · 08-02-2007, 13:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samuil

but the yaya does upgrade automaticaly when you discover a new land tech, right?

When you 'tech up' there is the opportunity to change your nation's prefered unit type. If and when you do so, all obsolete units of your previous prefeered type will upgrade to your newly chosen prefered type.

Shine · 08-02-2007, 13:24

How come this unit is available to me as Muscovy? Its early days and I only hold Russian / Rutherianian (sp?!) provinvces but I can build this unit in some areas. Seems odd that the enemies of the Ottomans can use these units!

Garuda · 08-02-2007, 13:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shine

How come this unit is available to me as Muscovy? Its early days and I only hold Russian / Rutherianian (sp?!) provinvces but I can build this unit in some areas. Seems odd that the enemies of the Ottomans can use these units!

I haven't played as Russia yet but I'm betting Russian provinces use 'Eastern Tech' unit types. The yaya is an eastern unit.

ElectricEel · 08-02-2007, 14:11

Are you people sure that a zero offensive shock or fire value equals no casualties inflicted? Has someone tested this? The dice and leaders may increase the units' effective values above zero in combat.

Sonny · 08-02-2007, 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shine

How come this unit is available to me as Muscovy? Its early days and I only hold Russian / Rutherianian (sp?!) provinvces but I can build this unit in some areas. Seems odd that the enemies of the Ottomans can use these units!

If one of those provinces is a core of the Ottomans then you can raise an Ottoman type unit in that province.

Shine · 08-02-2007, 14:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonny

If one of those provinces is a core of the Ottomans then you can raise an Ottoman type unit in that province.

The provinces are no where near ottoman lands, can't remember exactly which ones they are but think it might be Kursk and Chernigov. Somewhere round there. I've acquired cores thouugh events, its only Lithuania who have cores there as well.

Seems daft that because muscovy and the ottomans are 'easter' that they can raise the same troops.

lordy80011 · 08-02-2007, 16:27

I believe that the "pips" are actually modifiers to your base fire, shock, morale, etc. values (which can be seen by searching through the ledger).

As such, while Yaya has zero pips in Shock and Fire, this does not mean that your infantry have 0 in the Shock and Fire categories.

Cheers.

Garuda · 09-02-2007, 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by lordy80011

I believe that the "pips" are actually modifiers to your base fire, shock, morale, etc. values (which can be seen by searching through the ledger).

As such, while Yaya has zero pips in Shock and Fire, this does not mean that your infantry have 0 in the Shock and Fire categories.

Cheers.

But aren't the 'pips' the Generals modifiers to combat phase results? They would only be added to the army's total shock or fire values. The yaya would still not contribute to this.

smn · 09-02-2007, 12:51

The fire and shock values don't seem to make that much difference. Verify this by choosing an unit type that is 'much better' offensively, then pay attention to how the units perform on offensive and defensive.

The troop numbers, leader value and dice rolls are more important. Unless anyone comes in with actual data how the bonuses are applied, I claim they are mainly a smokescreen to give the Civilization crowd 'different units'. Many people I knew actually thought that EU2 was horribly simple when compared to the Civ series since 'there were only 3 types of units'

08-02-2007, 11:40	#1
Garuda High Priest of Olaus Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: The Village Posts: 1,484	Unit type: Ottoman Yaya In both Frease's unit list in the FAQ and on EU3 Wiki, the Ottoman Yaya unit of infantry has zero offensive and deensive values for both shock and fire. Is this an error or is the unit entirely useless? If the factors are correct, why would a player raise a regiment of Yaya? I'm wondering whether the AI would use them as a 'buffer' unit in combat to soak up casulaties maybe. __________________ 'Gentlemen, we're in the stickiest situation since Sticky the stick-insect got stuck on a sticky bun' - Capt. E. Blackadder. He who binds to himself a joy, Does the winged life destroy; But he who kisses the joy as it flies, Lives in eternity's sun rise. - William Blake The Empire needs YOU.. Come and post something nice about my AAR. The House of Habsburg. Victoria Revolutions VIPR01. Winner of the WritAAR of the Week Award 13 January 2008.

08-02-2007, 11:49	#3
margab Second Lieutenant Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 134	The stats you saw are correct. Here is the stats from the Ottoman_Yaya file under your /Common/Units folder: Code: # Ottoman Yaya type = infantry technology_group = eastern maneuver = 1 offensive_morale = 1 defensive_morale = 1 offensive_fire = 0 defensive_fire = 0 offensive_shock = 0 defensive_shock = 0 This doesn't mean that I don't agree with you. I mean come on, was yaya infantry just meat shield? It should at least have some shock (actually it should have fire since the yaya infantry also consisted of archers too, but the game's handling of archers in general is a different story by itself). __________________ "How happy is he who can say he is a Turk!" M.K.Ataturk, 1927

09-02-2007, 12:51	#18
smn Local Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Royston Vasey Posts: 1,777	The fire and shock values don't seem to make that much difference. Verify this by choosing an unit type that is 'much better' offensively, then pay attention to how the units perform on offensive and defensive. The troop numbers, leader value and dice rolls are more important. Unless anyone comes in with actual data how the bonuses are applied, I claim they are mainly a smokescreen to give the Civilization crowd 'different units'. Many people I knew actually thought that EU2 was horribly simple when compared to the Civ series since 'there were only 3 types of units' __________________ Se mikä ei tapa, vituttaa ICQ# 167644968 \| MSN rapoikel@cs.helsinki.fi

08-02-2007, 11:47	#2
Varam Your Hero Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Beyond the Beyond Posts: 441	The unit doesn't have any shock or fire, but it does have a point of offensive and defensive morale, so it's not entirely useless.

08-02-2007, 11:51	#4
Varam Your Hero Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Beyond the Beyond Posts: 441	Note that the Yaya Infantry are identical to Western Medieval Infantry, and you only have to use either of them until land tech 1.

08-02-2007, 12:26	#6
Pingwin Sergeant Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 51	I thought defensive moral is the moral damage you do to the other guys while defending yourself. Not the moral your unit has until it breaks. So the yaya is a simple infantry unit doing both on the attack and defense moral damage to the enemy. Not the most effective unit, but with capacities both attacking and defeding. As infantry shock is rather reduced in the early years (and you don't build yaya's later) the moral damage is really what decides the battle. If you want to kill, kill, kill that's what cav is for, not shock 1 infantry.

08-02-2007, 12:30	#7
Samuil Macedonian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Macedonia Posts: 845	but the yaya does upgrade automaticaly when you discover a new land tech, right?

08-02-2007, 13:24	#11
Shine Second Lieutenant Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 136	How come this unit is available to me as Muscovy? Its early days and I only hold Russian / Rutherianian (sp?!) provinvces but I can build this unit in some areas. Seems odd that the enemies of the Ottomans can use these units!

08-02-2007, 14:11	#13
ElectricEel First Lieutenant Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Finland Posts: 268	Are you people sure that a zero offensive shock or fire value equals no casualties inflicted? Has someone tested this? The dice and leaders may increase the units' effective values above zero in combat.

08-02-2007, 16:27	#16
lordy80011 Scholaris Medievalis Historie Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Sub Caelo Posts: 374	I believe that the "pips" are actually modifiers to your base fire, shock, morale, etc. values (which can be seen by searching through the ledger). As such, while Yaya has zero pips in Shock and Fire, this does not mean that your infantry have 0 in the Shock and Fire categories. Cheers.