feudal contract - traditional law

[Brainslow]

playing as german king w traditonal law

now, is it true that changing to feudal contract can unleash hell?

I mean. saw on the text file regarding these laws that with feudal contract the vassals make their claims valid by gwar?


and with traditional law they have claims but they behave like good boys

[Veldmaarschalk]

Originally Posted by Brainslow

playing as german king w traditonal law

now, is it true that changing to feudal contract can unleash hell?

I mean. saw on the text file regarding these laws that with feudal contract the vassals make their claims valid by gwar?


and with traditional law they have claims but they behave like good boys

No, those features don't work in the game at all.

While changing the inheritance laws will lower the loyalty of your vassals with 50%, changing these laws will not have an one-time effect.

If you have a lot of vassals, feudal contract is the best law to have, it gives your vassals a +1.0 loyalty modifier per month.

[way2co0l]

When does it become to many vassels? Lets say I play England under popular law primarily for the pike and archers. How many vassels could a reasonable (6 average stats) monarch montain before they become unruly?

[Veldmaarschalk]

Originally Posted by way2co0l

When does it become to many vassels? Lets say I play England under popular law primarily for the pike and archers. How many vassels could a reasonable (6 average stats) monarch montain before they become unruly?

That depends on your rulers+chancellors diplomacy score, his traits, your badboypoints, your scutage and your prestige.

So it isn't really dependent on the number of vassals, I think

[way2co0l]

So I could own the greater isle of Britain and maintain them all as counts while holding the duke titles to pass onto heirs with little ill effect as long as I maintain respectable reputation, prestige, stats? It wouldn't be any better to hand out duke titles in order to take my total number of vassels from what 40'ish down to like 15. I'd think it would be easier to maintain 15 vassels and keep them loyal than all the varius counties. *shrugs*

[Veldmaarschalk]

Originally Posted by way2co0l

So I could own the greater isle of Britain and maintain them all as counts while holding the duke titles to pass onto heirs with little ill effect as long as I maintain respectable reputation, prestige, stats? It wouldn't be any better to hand out duke titles in order to take my total number of vassels from what 40'ish down to like 15. I'd think it would be easier to maintain 15 vassels and keep them loyal than all the varius counties. *shrugs*

Yes, it is easier to keep 15 vassals happy then 40, but that wasn't your question I believe .

You asked, at least that is what I thought, what is the maximum number of vasssals to have without having to switch to Feudal Contract, to keep them happy.

There is no maximum, you can keep 100 or 200 vassals happy without FC, but with FC you get a little bonus

[way2co0l]

Sorry I guess I didn't state my question clearly enough. What I had meant to ask was the maximum before I start incurring penalties for having too many vassels. I know I "could" potentially have 40 vassels but what is the modifier for when vassels begin to become disloyal due to me having to many of them?

[Veldmaarschalk]

Originally Posted by way2co0l

Sorry I guess I didn't state my question clearly enough. What I had meant to ask was the maximum before I start incurring penalties for having too many vassels. I know I "could" potentially have 40 vassels but what is the modifier for when vassels begin to become disloyal due to me having to many of them?

There are no direct penalties or modifiers if you have 'to many' vassals. It just is that the more vassals you have the more likelier it will become that certain bad (or good) events will happen.

f.e.
An (made up) event for a vassals fires 'I don't like my liege' then for you, the liege, an event fires 'One of your vassals doesn't like you, his loyalty decreases with 0.5'. The more vassals you have, the bigger the chance that sich an event will fire for a vassals and so indirectly one for you.

But there is also an event that says 'My liege is a nice and just fellow, I love him' and then a event firer for you 'One of your vassals thinks you are great, you gain the trait Just and his loyalty increases with 0.5'

I do believe that someone (Byakhiam IIRC) once mentioned that there is a certain formula that had either something to do with your diplomacy skill or with your intrigue skill. Something like:

your diplomacyskill x something < number of vassals

Not certain how correct this is though

[way2co0l]

Well thank you for the responses. I understand the greater number of vassels would increase the likelyhood of events but it would also make a good deal of sense to have a limit to the number of vassels controlled by the rulers ability. I mean controlling a number of vassels that eventually far surpassed the power of the kings personal lands eventually didn't bode very well for said kings.

But being a game I wont complain to much and instead just try to make sense of how it is currently designed to work whether I feal it all accurate or the depth to be as complete as I'd like. Learn how it's designed to work and enjoy what I can of it.

Buying EU2 soon. Would buy EU3 and maybe I still will eventually but as long as it doesn't allow save games to be imported or exported to the older games, well I'll just wait for those newer games that will allow it to be exported are out.

Otherwise I have a few brothers and friends that will all play once we get a few copies of the game going. Should be interesting. All I really got to do is find out how the conversions work between the game to see what our individual goals should be.

Then we'll build up to the kings of England ruling the world.... Just gatta figure out what I'm going to do with those damned Frenchmen. My brother loves to play em and I love to stomp on them whenever I'm giving the oppertuniry. Do those games allow slaves? *evil grin* Maybe I'll just make them vassels til hoi2 then nuke them to death. Ohhhhhhhh yeaaaaa. That would just be sweet.

[Veldmaarschalk]

Well thank you for the responses. I understand the greater number of vassels would increase the likelyhood of events but it would also make a good deal of sense to have a limit to the number of vassels controlled by the rulers ability. I mean controlling a number of vassels that eventually far surpassed the power of the kings personal lands eventually didn't bode very well for said kings

In the real world it would be impossible for a ruler in the Middle ages to rule a kingdom that consisted of England, Scotland, Ireland, France, Aragon, Germany, Leon, Italy, Bohemia and Sicily. In the game it is possible.

But with patch 1.05 they at least have tried to make it a bit more difficult with the 'realm duress' events.

Before that, if you had conquered something or made someone your vassals, that land would stay yours for ever.

[way2co0l]

Yea direct rule should not be possible for anything more than a very short duration of time. I could maybe see an extraordinary soul reuniting and expanding apon charlemeigns (sp?) old empire but it would take a truly magnificent dynasty to even contemplate holding the lands for even a few generations. Most likely the best course and one that was excersized often I do believe was to put siblings, cousins, or relatives of one extent or another on the land.

If I remember correctly that occured all across Europe for centuries. 1 example would be WW1 where the rulers of Russia, Germany, and England where all united by one degree or another. I believe they where all cousins? Either way. Even those Dynastic empires where generally short lived during the period, as it should be in this game. The more you take on the more explosive and dynamic your demise.

Well unless your England. Sorry going to throw that out there any chance I get.

[Nick B II]

Originally Posted by way2co0l

Sorry I guess I didn't state my question clearly enough. What I had meant to ask was the maximum before I start incurring penalties for having too many vassels. I know I "could" potentially have 40 vassels but what is the modifier for when vassels begin to become disloyal due to me having to many of them?

Like Veld said, there is no set number. The main limit is your ability/desire to keep all of them happy. If you don't bother with such things three Grand Dukes are much more fun than 40 Counts. Especially if one of the Dukes is your brother, another your daughter, and the third your first-born son. Your daughter probably won't marry, so her heir is her brother, the other Grand Duke.

If you enjoy managing your vassals 40 Counts are not a problem.

Personally, I tend to use Feudal Contract and Elective Law while going on massive conquest sprees. So I make my kids all Grand Dukes, which ensures they're all in line for the throne before non-dynasty twits. Eventually all the Duchys get a turn as King.

BTW, keep in mind some of those events Veld mentioned give your vassal's the "rebellious" trait. Two of those fire and your King has "Realm Duress," which is not a fun trait to have.

Nick

[DPS]

Something that hasn't been mentioned is that one way to bump up your vassals loyalty is to simply bribe them by giving them cash. This is often necessary right at the start of a new ruler's reign because getting a new ruler causes a hit to your vassals loyalty. Especially if your rulers dies young, and his children are still minors, the new ruler is likely to start with very little prestige, so you'll need to bump up loyalty quickly with bribes. If you don't have a large amount on money saved up, you may run out of money to give to your vassals if you have a lot of them. Even though a gift of a certain size will usually increas a duke's loyalty by less than it would a count's, it's still usually cheaper to bribe, say, 10 dukes than 100 counts.