Test Destroyers: Soft Attack = Zero !!!???

UberFelix · 03-08-2006, 00:26

The soft attack values of tank destroyers (TD) is zero.
TD carried both AT rounds and HE rounds (high explosive). An 88mm HE round fired into infantry will do damage. I think TD should have a soft attack value of ONE.

Koeppen · 03-08-2006, 08:45

They have SA:1 from model 3 (Advanced TD). Usually the ammo layout were very low on HE rounds and the early models had smaller caliber guns which didn't pack the same punch as the later (88/90mm) guns had.

Czert · 03-08-2006, 12:56

But I thing SA 1 for all TD will be good - to represent machineguns.
Simply put +1 sa for all models of TD (mayby except later models).

blue emu · 06-08-2006, 19:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Czert

But I thing SA 1 for all TD will be good - to represent machineguns.

Early Tank Destroyer models (eg: German PzJg I, US M3 GMC, USSR SU-37) had no Machine Guns. The later models that DID have Machine Guns already have a SA factor.

In any case... a Brigade of TDs is only a few dozen vehicles. Should a few dozen MGs really get a firepower factor when an entire Infantry Division... ten thousand men with Rifles, MGs, Artillery, etc... only get 12 firepower factors?

Czert · 06-08-2006, 22:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue emu

Early Tank Destroyer models (eg: German PzJg I, US M3 GMC, USSR SU-37) had no Machine Guns. The later models that DID have Machine Guns already have a SA factor.

Hmmm,OKI.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue emu

In any case... a Brigade of TDs is only a few dozen vehicles. Should a few dozen MGs really get a firepower factor when an entire Infantry Division... ten thousand men with Rifles, MGs, Artillery, etc... only get 12 firepower factors?

If we go to WWI then we can see entire attack of inf. div can be stoped/destroyed with only few (4-5 per km) good placed MGs.
It not easy to determine firepower of MGs, rifles, guns... etc to SA/HA and I thing, few MGs can get get higher SA than tousands of rifles (simply comaring rate of fire) and I not talking about psychology effects etc.

UberFelix · 07-08-2006, 23:10

TD3 = HA/SA = 5/0 =Hetzer had a 75mm gun and a roof mounted MG.
TD4 = HA/SA = 6/1 = Jagdpanther had an 88mm gun and a bow MG.
TD5 = HA/SA = 7/1 = Jagdtiger had a 128mm gun and two MG

TD carried HE ammunition. The mixture of HE and AT ammunition depended on their mission. In missions against infantry they would carry more HE and against armor they obviously would carry more AT.

I think the TD3 deserves a HA/SA of 5/1.
I think the TD4 deserves a HA/SA of 7/1....maybe 8/1
I think the TD5 deserves a HA/SA of 9/2...maybe 10/2
*If a TD brigade can generate a HA of 5 then they can generate a SA of 1.

An armored vehicle with a cannon that fires HE ammunition and MG can generate plenty of fire power against infantry in the role of an assault gun. Being armored and mobile allows it to close in with infantry which makes it much more effective than a simple machine gun squad.

Also I think the 88mm was a FAR better tank killing gun than the 75mm. I think HOI shortchanges the 88mm gun in its attributes.

lpremus · 08-08-2006, 03:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by UberFelix

TD3 = HA/SA = 5/0 =Hetzer had a 75mm gun and a roof mounted MG.
TD4 = HA/SA = 6/1 = Jagdpanther had an 88mm gun and a bow MG.
TD5 = HA/SA = 7/1 = Jagdtiger had a 128mm gun and two MG

TD carried HE ammunition. The mixture of HE and AT ammunition depended on their mission. In missions against infantry they would carry more HE and against armor they obviously would carry more AT.

I think the TD3 deserves a HA/SA of 5/1.
I think the TD4 deserves a HA/SA of 7/1....maybe 8/1
I think the TD5 deserves a HA/SA of 9/2...maybe 10/2
*If a TD brigade can generate a HA of 5 then they can generate a SA of 1.

An armored vehicle with a cannon that fires HE ammunition and MG can generate plenty of fire power against infantry in the role of an assault gun. Being armored and mobile allows it to close in with infantry which makes it much more effective than a simple machine gun squad.

Also I think the 88mm was a FAR better tank killing gun than the 75mm. I think HOI shortchanges the 88mm gun in its attributes.

Yes, you are correct they didn't call the 88mm gun the "famous 88" for nothing or the the "killer 88" for nothing either.

An old vet from the battle of the bulge told me that it only took an "88" crew 3 rounds to pinpoint your position. So after the second round you had better move your butt if you wanted to save it.

03-08-2006, 00:26	#1
UberFelix First Lieutenant Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 219	Test Destroyers: Soft Attack = Zero !!!??? The soft attack values of tank destroyers (TD) is zero. TD carried both AT rounds and HE rounds (high explosive). An 88mm HE round fired into infantry will do damage. I think TD should have a soft attack value of ONE. Last edited by UberFelix; 03-08-2006 at 00:31.

03-08-2006, 12:56	#3
Czert Major Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 538	But I thing SA 1 for all TD will be good - to represent machineguns. Simply put +1 sa for all models of TD (mayby except later models). __________________ My English may be poor, but better than yours Czechs. Searching difference between Nacism and Communism is simmilar to searching difference between Plague and Cholera. Can you beat me ? But be nice :-) http://czert1938.mybrute.com Want help to develop mod for one of best games ever ? Try this. http://www.ja-galaxy-forum.com/board...?ubb=cfrm&c=11

07-08-2006, 23:10	#6
UberFelix First Lieutenant Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 219	Hetzer. Jagdpanther, Jagdtiger TD3 = HA/SA = 5/0 =Hetzer had a 75mm gun and a roof mounted MG. TD4 = HA/SA = 6/1 = Jagdpanther had an 88mm gun and a bow MG. TD5 = HA/SA = 7/1 = Jagdtiger had a 128mm gun and two MG TD carried HE ammunition. The mixture of HE and AT ammunition depended on their mission. In missions against infantry they would carry more HE and against armor they obviously would carry more AT. I think the TD3 deserves a HA/SA of 5/1. I think the TD4 deserves a HA/SA of 7/1....maybe 8/1 I think the TD5 deserves a HA/SA of 9/2...maybe 10/2 *If a TD brigade can generate a HA of 5 then they can generate a SA of 1. An armored vehicle with a cannon that fires HE ammunition and MG can generate plenty of fire power against infantry in the role of an assault gun. Being armored and mobile allows it to close in with infantry which makes it much more effective than a simple machine gun squad. Also I think the 88mm was a FAR better tank killing gun than the 75mm. I think HOI shortchanges the 88mm gun in its attributes.

03-08-2006, 08:45	#2
Koeppen Second Lieutenant Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Nybro, Sweden Posts: 169	They have SA:1 from model 3 (Advanced TD). Usually the ammo layout were very low on HE rounds and the early models had smaller caliber guns which didn't pack the same punch as the later (88/90mm) guns had.