Enhancment Suggestion: The Equipment Pool ( with Pictures )

wyK · 18-07-2006, 19:50

hi my name's wyk im creative director at a small company in germany. playing hoi for so long i decided to write down my improvement ideas and illustrate them with some pictures. I suggest i can use my experience from the workplace.i have 4 good worked out ideas but i only show you the first
cause it takes a lot of time to make that pictures.If the feedback is ok i will continue with the second idea. The pictures should speak for themselves so here is number one :

The Equipment Pool & Splitted Manpower

The suggestion is that Armies have beside Generals lower ranks like captains and seargents. this should be reflected by splitting the MP to Officers and Soldiers. Think of Officers, as "ElitePersonel" that can be Pilots,Snipers, Seargents,etc... .
Officers should Reflect Pilots in Planes and Commanders on the Ground. The Idea is that you get out of every 1.00 MP 0.05 Officers. 5%. If a unit has few officers in an division than it should faster loose org in a battle and slower regain them. Also there should be an autopromotion from normal soldier to a officer after some combat expierience to reflect promotion in the lower ranks.

After splitting the MP there must be an splitting of strength in general. It sounds complicated at first, but its very easy to understand, just look at the Pictures. Now we have three different types of strength :

Soldiers , Officers and Material

and Material is connected to the Equipment Pool. The Equipment there is
a sub level of Units that cant be produced. Only captued from the enemy,
traded from allies or gained from disbanding units.

The Equipment Pool has also the Option to convert everything in it to ressources and auto reinforce damaged material in divisions at 0 IC Cost.
if the Equipment Pool is Empty there would be the normal Cost of Reinforcing through the IC Slider.

The Extra Feature of the Pool would be, that it gives bonuses to newly Produced Units. I.e. you get a maximum of 50% cost&time reduction of the unit production if you have everything it needs in the Equipment Pool.

I summarize
1. Cheap Material Reinforcment at 0 ( or 50%, not sure about that ) Cost
2. Units from Disbanded Divisons
2.1 Convert Units (Captured/Traded/Disbanded) to Raw Material
2.2 Capturing of Enemy Units
3. Replacement for the Trading Divisons Option
4. Get a max 25% bonus on Production

Total Addition for Micromanagment : 4 Clicks

And it would also be used for trading. Instead of trading whole divisions now, only the Equipment in the Pool would be used.

It would make andvanced statistics of Lost Soldiers/Material and an Overall View of the Military Equipment possible, check the last picture !

It could also solve the ugly Problem with the V1/V2 : When they are ordered to attack they will stay in their province and loose strenght over time that represents fired rockets and can automatically be reinforced through the Equipment Pool. Making it available to Produce Single Rockets (0.1IC/1Day) as Equipment would be an solution to that. The Normal V1/V2 Division would only represent starting ramps and personnel.

Tell me what you think about it !

And Remember : These are just photoshopped Images for Illustrating the Idea

On the Questions about building Divisions with "modules" on ugrading and diversity

Units in the Equip Pool are no modules.
You need always the skeletton dvision and can use units in the pool to reduce cost&time of production.

One Typ of Unit in the Pool is the simplest way. Having 10 types of tanks would be to much micromanagment. The Construction-Extra of the Pool is an ... extra. It can supply
100% of the needed Weapons and Material or nothing. but due to the fact that some of it is of another type (tiger, charb1 or t34) or outdated you will need to upgrade it _when you are using it to build an division_. Even if you have 100% of the arms what it needs to build that division you will also be faced with the penatly to upgrade,unify and standarize the stuff from the pool which will automatically happen when you start constructing. At least
you save 25% of the divisions building time and cost if you have everything in the pool.
When you lack one or more units then you simply dont get the full bonus as seen in the picture.

Breakdown of Division Cost

Icer · 18-07-2006, 20:08

Well, I like the suggestions. However I thought that isnt 5% to officers too small portion? Also should pilots have different pool? So there would be soldiers/officers/pilots. Dunno if navy personnel would warrant also one category more.

Equipment pools is good idea too. How would you handle the production? I didnt exactly understand that part. Did you say one would not be able to produce new equipment? I'd prefer if you first have to produce the equipment and then you can build units which use that equipment. So for example if you dont have enough tanks you dont get to build a tank division.

Also this is propably stuff to consider if/when hoi3 is designed. And one should try to keep in mind that the features should add something to the game. Not just atmosphere and/or micromanagement.

Keaton · 18-07-2006, 20:10

WTF....Get on the Phone to Paradox right now!!!!11one1!

DaGrooved1 · 18-07-2006, 20:16

Seeing that 3rd last screenshot reminded me of all those old hex based war games I used to play, "We have lost 48 small guns, 23 tanks, and 4094 infantry." I'd love to see this put into HoI though.

Veldrinshade · 18-07-2006, 20:18

That looks pretty kewl, can't wait to try it out, please continue.

otacu · 18-07-2006, 20:29

Impressive.

wyK · 18-07-2006, 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icer

Well, I like the suggestions. However I thought that isnt 5% to officers too small portion? Also should pilots have different pool? So there would be soldiers/officers/pilots. Dunno if navy personnel would warrant also one category more.

I thought about that too but it would be too much micromanagment in my opionion. It is more thought of as an pool of "elite" personal. This officer/soldier thing should smoothley run in the background of the game.
my furthergoing idea was to introcude special teams ( an so called extra "brigarde" but more likly a team ) that you can attach also as an bonus to an divison (i.e. sniper team, berrets ... ) _together with an brigarde_.
They would be very low cost (~0.1IC) but high build time (~200Days) and Consume only Elite Peronnel aka Officers.
They would give the division a significant high bonus to kill enemy officers in divisons. Remember the movie "enemy at the gates" ? That one sniper shot down about 350 Officers in Stalingrad which reduced the organisation of the German Troops dramaticaly. With few officers in a battle
org loss would be higher than normal and regain slower.

Quote:

Equipment pools is good idea too. How would you handle the production? I didnt exactly understand that part. Did you say one would not be able to produce new equipment? I'd prefer if you first have to produce the equipment and then you can build units which use that equipment. So for example if you dont have enough tanks you dont get to build a tank division.

Not that really. I meant it to be that u can speed up production of the Unit when you have the necessary Equipment. Due to the fact that it would be extremly complicated to list up every captured type i.e. of russian tank, if its one from 1918 or from 1943, there would be only one kind of tank, one type of rifle, one type of truck. Even if you have everything you need for your unit to build it you will need to upgrade some of it as a cap, need to train your soldiers, and build the skelleton of the divison. You will be able to create a divison with an empty equipment pool. It is just an addition for trading, reinforcing, disbanded units, captured equipment and reducing the cost&time of newly build units.

Gen. Skobelev · 18-07-2006, 20:47

Woah, that's impressive! And very nice touch to the game also - I've always wanted to see some casualty numbers on HoI. I sure hope something like that would be implemented in the future (if not in DD patches, perhaps in HoI3

).

Yoy21 · 18-07-2006, 20:48

I fully support your idea, and hope that you soon have a downloadable version ready. That would make campaign making a WHOLE lot different. However, there is the problem of "what happens when all the equipment is destroyed?"

Randwulf · 18-07-2006, 20:58

Great Ideas--- I would love to see them implemented. It would take the HOI experience to the next level!

Bismarck1 · 18-07-2006, 21:01

as others have said great Ideas, do you mind having them avaible for download?

tp640871 · 18-07-2006, 21:01

Great job with the images..

I agree with you

OttoBoll · 18-07-2006, 21:02

I had a question about the materials used for the newly added equipment, would this cost resources when building, sorta like in Victoria? For instance if you decided to build a tank, and this uses the equipment "tank", which most likely contains mostly the resource iron, would you have to pay in iron & IC to build it?
Also, very impressive so far, well worth developing further. I hope the mods sticky this thread a while as this is by far the most interesting ideas of addition I've seen in a long while.

Yoy21 · 18-07-2006, 21:03

I have a question just on general modding: How do you add stuff to the interface like this guy did? If only I knew how...

otacu · 18-07-2006, 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by OttoBoll

I had a question about the materials used for the newly added equipment, would this cost resources when building, sorta like in Victoria? For instance if you decided to build a tank, and this uses the equipment "tank", which most likely contains mostly the resource iron, would you have to pay in iron & IC to build it?
Also, very impressive so far, well worth developing further. I hope the mods sticky this thread a while as this is by far the most interesting ideas of addition I've seen in a long while.

Yeah it looks like an advanced Victoria system.... i love it.

jadam · 18-07-2006, 21:27

Really nice job indeed! I would love this idea. C'mon Paradox!

goobermaster · 18-07-2006, 21:30

Wow...that is cool.

It adds a whole new feeling. Rather than seeing that your armoured division is at 72% strength and going "crap" you can see that you have lost 48 tanks, 30 SPG's etc.

Feels more immersive. I don't know how acceptable it is, but if it works, P'dox should check this out.

P3D · 18-07-2006, 21:44

Having specific factories to build aircrafts and tanks would be nice too, and reinforcing airplanes won't be so cheap - right now you can make aircrafts and canned food in the exact same factory.

And add different models for the equipment, too (e.g. PzIII vs. Panther).

Nice idea, however, it will not happen

. Perhaps HoI3, in the distant future.

Czert · 18-07-2006, 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by wyK

They would give the division a significant high bonus to kill enemy officers in divisons. Remember the movie "enemy at the gates" ? That one sniper shot down about 350 Officers in Stalingrad which reduced the organisation of the German Troops dramaticaly.

It is only movie, IRL not so much snipers are so high succesfull, but yes, extra snipers have negative impact to enemy units, BUT game currently represent snipers in div., not only mention them.
And is here option to increase rate of "elite" personel gained from MP (via more academies)?

And if you post suggestion, better it will be at enhacement forum of old HoI2.

And number of soldiers/officers show in units apear to be to low - missing second line troops (cooks, mainentance personel, logistic personel.. etc).

And you idea of equipment is close to my idea of arsenals, but you choice little different way.

DaGrooved1 · 18-07-2006, 21:56

A lot of people are asking if he could make this available for download, and how he added things to the interface, I'm pretty sure:

A) He hasn't actually done anything that could be downloaded.

B) Those are just photoshopped images.

18-07-2006, 19:50	#1
wyK Banned Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 82	Enhancment Suggestion: The Equipment Pool ( with Pictures ) hi my name's wyk im creative director at a small company in germany. playing hoi for so long i decided to write down my improvement ideas and illustrate them with some pictures. I suggest i can use my experience from the workplace.i have 4 good worked out ideas but i only show you the first cause it takes a lot of time to make that pictures.If the feedback is ok i will continue with the second idea. The pictures should speak for themselves so here is number one : The Equipment Pool & Splitted Manpower The suggestion is that Armies have beside Generals lower ranks like captains and seargents. this should be reflected by splitting the MP to Officers and Soldiers. Think of Officers, as "ElitePersonel" that can be Pilots,Snipers, Seargents,etc... . Officers should Reflect Pilots in Planes and Commanders on the Ground. The Idea is that you get out of every 1.00 MP 0.05 Officers. 5%. If a unit has few officers in an division than it should faster loose org in a battle and slower regain them. Also there should be an autopromotion from normal soldier to a officer after some combat expierience to reflect promotion in the lower ranks. After splitting the MP there must be an splitting of strength in general. It sounds complicated at first, but its very easy to understand, just look at the Pictures. Now we have three different types of strength : Soldiers , Officers and Material and Material is connected to the Equipment Pool. The Equipment there is a sub level of Units that cant be produced. Only captued from the enemy, traded from allies or gained from disbanding units. The Equipment Pool has also the Option to convert everything in it to ressources and auto reinforce damaged material in divisions at 0 IC Cost. if the Equipment Pool is Empty there would be the normal Cost of Reinforcing through the IC Slider. The Extra Feature of the Pool would be, that it gives bonuses to newly Produced Units. I.e. you get a maximum of 50% cost&time reduction of the unit production if you have everything it needs in the Equipment Pool. I summarize 1. Cheap Material Reinforcment at 0 ( or 50%, not sure about that ) Cost 2. Units from Disbanded Divisons 2.1 Convert Units (Captured/Traded/Disbanded) to Raw Material 2.2 Capturing of Enemy Units 3. Replacement for the Trading Divisons Option 4. Get a max 25% bonus on Production Total Addition for Micromanagment : 4 Clicks And it would also be used for trading. Instead of trading whole divisions now, only the Equipment in the Pool would be used. It would make andvanced statistics of Lost Soldiers/Material and an Overall View of the Military Equipment possible, check the last picture ! It could also solve the ugly Problem with the V1/V2 : When they are ordered to attack they will stay in their province and loose strenght over time that represents fired rockets and can automatically be reinforced through the Equipment Pool. Making it available to Produce Single Rockets (0.1IC/1Day) as Equipment would be an solution to that. The Normal V1/V2 Division would only represent starting ramps and personnel. Tell me what you think about it ! And Remember : These are just photoshopped Images for Illustrating the Idea On the Questions about building Divisions with "modules" on ugrading and diversity Units in the Equip Pool are no modules. You need always the skeletton dvision and can use units in the pool to reduce cost&time of production. One Typ of Unit in the Pool is the simplest way. Having 10 types of tanks would be to much micromanagment. The Construction-Extra of the Pool is an ... extra. It can supply 100% of the needed Weapons and Material or nothing. but due to the fact that some of it is of another type (tiger, charb1 or t34) or outdated you will need to upgrade it _when you are using it to build an division_. Even if you have 100% of the arms what it needs to build that division you will also be faced with the penatly to upgrade,unify and standarize the stuff from the pool which will automatically happen when you start constructing. At least you save 25% of the divisions building time and cost if you have everything in the pool. When you lack one or more units then you simply dont get the full bonus as seen in the picture. Breakdown of Division Cost Last edited by wyK; 20-07-2006 at 03:06.

18-07-2006, 20:08	#2
Icer General Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Oulu, Finland Posts: 1,795	Well, I like the suggestions. However I thought that isnt 5% to officers too small portion? Also should pilots have different pool? So there would be soldiers/officers/pilots. Dunno if navy personnel would warrant also one category more. Equipment pools is good idea too. How would you handle the production? I didnt exactly understand that part. Did you say one would not be able to produce new equipment? I'd prefer if you first have to produce the equipment and then you can build units which use that equipment. So for example if you dont have enough tanks you dont get to build a tank division. Also this is propably stuff to consider if/when hoi3 is designed. And one should try to keep in mind that the features should add something to the game. Not just atmosphere and/or micromanagement. __________________ Last.fm: Join the Paradoxians / Tell us about it here! / My profile: icer75 emerge victorious! USE=Gentoo Linux "If the tanks succeed, then victory follows.", Guderian, 1937. ~ Über die Schelde, den Maas und den Rhein, rollen die englischen Panzer herein. Vorwärts, US-Marineninfanterie! Die Nutten warten in Berlin. ~

18-07-2006, 20:10	#3
Keaton Captain Join Date: May 2006 Location: The land of the free, home of the brave. Indigenous holocaust, and the home of the slaves Posts: 351	WTF....Get on the Phone to Paradox right now!!!!11one1! __________________ "The invisible Money Power is working to control and enslave mankind. It financed Communism, Fascism, Marxism, Zionism, Socialism. All of these are directed to making the United States a member of a World Government ..." Check this for a musical view ANGRY, YOUNG AND POOR!!

18-07-2006, 20:18	#5
Veldrinshade Corporal Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 29	That looks pretty kewl, can't wait to try it out, please continue. __________________ In constant awe of the Flawless-Divine-Beta-Testers

18-07-2006, 20:47	#8
Gen. Skobelev The White General Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 3,147	Woah, that's impressive! And very nice touch to the game also - I've always wanted to see some casualty numbers on HoI. I sure hope something like that would be implemented in the future (if not in DD patches, perhaps in HoI3 ). __________________ Play Advanced Third Reich with fellow Paradoxians! \| A3R AAR Battle of the Arctic II - updated 4.5.2008 (Fall 1942 done) \| My AAR repository "The elemental truth must be stressed that the characteristic of any country before its industrial revolution and modernisation is poverty..." Mathias, First Industrial Nation, pg. 5 "The Central Committee and the government are in possession of definite proof that this massive exodus of the peasants has been organized by the enemies of the Soviet regime, by counterrevolutionaries, and by Polish agents as a propaganda coup against the process for collectivization in particular and the Soviet Government in general" - SU leadership about famine & migration caused by bolshevik policy of confiscating all food despite human losses. Stéphane Courtois et al, The Black Book of Communism, pg. 164 Play A3R (Advanced Third Reich) or AWAW (A World at War): www.warplanner.com In Wiki we trust: VickyWiki\|CKWiki (offline)\|HoI2Wiki\|EU3Wiki

18-07-2006, 20:16	#4
DaGrooved1 Official Forum Lurker Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 34	Seeing that 3rd last screenshot reminded me of all those old hex based war games I used to play, "We have lost 48 small guns, 23 tanks, and 4094 infantry." I'd love to see this put into HoI though.

18-07-2006, 20:29	#6
otacu Second Lieutenant Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 149	Impressive.

18-07-2006, 20:48	#9
Yoy21 Winning unfairly since 2001 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: USA Posts: 2,135	I fully support your idea, and hope that you soon have a downloadable version ready. That would make campaign making a WHOLE lot different. However, there is the problem of "what happens when all the equipment is destroyed?"

18-07-2006, 20:58	#10
Randwulf Major Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Sugar Land, Texas Posts: 511	Great Ideas--- I would love to see them implemented. It would take the HOI experience to the next level!

18-07-2006, 21:01	#11
Bismarck1 Colonel Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: south carolina, USA Posts: 804	as others have said great Ideas, do you mind having them avaible for download?

18-07-2006, 21:01	#12
tp640871 General Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Ludvika, EU Posts: 1,794	yeah Great job with the images.. I agree with you __________________ Feel free to check out my programming projects at - tp640871.wordpress.com Having problem with the spanish civil war? Click here to get help.

18-07-2006, 21:02	#13
OttoBoll Corporal Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 43	I had a question about the materials used for the newly added equipment, would this cost resources when building, sorta like in Victoria? For instance if you decided to build a tank, and this uses the equipment "tank", which most likely contains mostly the resource iron, would you have to pay in iron & IC to build it? Also, very impressive so far, well worth developing further. I hope the mods sticky this thread a while as this is by far the most interesting ideas of addition I've seen in a long while.

18-07-2006, 21:03	#14
Yoy21 Winning unfairly since 2001 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: USA Posts: 2,135	I have a question just on general modding: How do you add stuff to the interface like this guy did? If only I knew how...

18-07-2006, 21:27	#16
jadam Banned Join Date: May 2006 Location: Hungary, Budapest Posts: 1,642	Really nice job indeed! I would love this idea. C'mon Paradox!

18-07-2006, 21:30	#17
goobermaster Captain Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 467	Wow...that is cool. It adds a whole new feeling. Rather than seeing that your armoured division is at 72% strength and going "crap" you can see that you have lost 48 tanks, 30 SPG's etc. Feels more immersive. I don't know how acceptable it is, but if it works, P'dox should check this out.

18-07-2006, 21:44	#18
P3D Major Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Reno, NV Posts: 611	Having specific factories to build aircrafts and tanks would be nice too, and reinforcing airplanes won't be so cheap - right now you can make aircrafts and canned food in the exact same factory. And add different models for the equipment, too (e.g. PzIII vs. Panther). Nice idea, however, it will not happen . Perhaps HoI3, in the distant future. __________________ P3D HoI2 Leader Experience Mysteries Unravelled

18-07-2006, 21:56	#20
DaGrooved1 Official Forum Lurker Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 34	A lot of people are asking if he could make this available for download, and how he added things to the interface, I'm pretty sure: A) He hasn't actually done anything that could be downloaded. B) Those are just photoshopped images.