Machine Tools for Russia

Swamp Rat · 04-07-2006, 22:06

Im a newbie playing Russia for the first time. It seems theyre completely paralyzed by lack of machine tools. Trade buy <1, <10 or <40 doesnt help at all. Improving relations to UK (got them to 170 so far) doesnt help either. And its impossible to build anything at all, even an industry that can create machine tools (seems like somewhat of a catch 22 that one).

Please help, what am i doing wrong??

*OHgamer* · 04-07-2006, 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swamp Rat

Im a newbie playing Russia for the first time. It seems theyre completely paralyzed by lack of machine tools. Trade buy <1, <10 or <40 doesnt help at all. Improving relations to UK (got them to 170 so far) doesnt help either. And its impossible to build anything at all, even an industry that can create machine tools (seems like somewhat of a catch 22 that one).

Please help, what am i doing wrong??

what year are you at

There is a tech Interchangable Parts that will trigger an invention that allows you to build a machine parts factory and provides the necessary machine-parts to be able to build it. Supply the money, (or go into debt to build it) and voila, independence from dependency on others to try and get machine parts.

Tambourmajor · 04-07-2006, 22:16

Does Russia have a steel factory at start?

If not, then you absolutely need to save your machine parts stockpile until the Precision Works invention fires. You are going to need a large steel industry plus at least 10 MPs to build a MP factory.

Nick B II · 04-07-2006, 22:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swamp Rat

Im a newbie playing Russia for the first time. It seems theyre completely paralyzed by lack of machine tools. Trade buy <1, <10 or <40 doesnt help at all. Improving relations to UK (got them to 170 so far) doesnt help either. And its impossible to build anything at all, even an industry that can create machine tools (seems like somewhat of a catch 22 that one).

Please help, what am i doing wrong??

In 1836 the UK is the only country that produces machine tools. Prussia, Austria, France, etc. have the same damn problem. So everybody is bidding for machine tools on the WM (World Market). These bids are accepted in order of prestige; not relationship to the UK. Focus on generating prestige and you'll get some machine tools (eventually).

BTW, some technologies generate "free" machine tools. The one allowing you to build machine tools factories generates enough tools to actually build the dang factory. If you don't have those techs yet research them ASAP. If you do a) live without machine tools until you generate enough prestige to buy them on the WM; or b) start over.

Everyone on these boards did b) at least twice before they figured out what they were doing.

Nick

KaiserChicken · 04-07-2006, 22:37

Most initial industrial techs, which are not related to chemistry or railroad, give you machine parts

Swamp Rat · 04-07-2006, 23:01

thx for the replies. when i posted the question i was in 1847. I had read in the sparse russia guide in the wiki that an event called "first russian railroad" fired in 1837! so i felt a bit lost.

i get it now that machine parts are very hard to get and a great power like russia probably needs to produce them itself. Unfortunately in my game i suddenly became entangled in the crimean war and the whole world (it seemed. austria, sweden, some italian states and of course ottoman, france and uk) DOWed me and i was done for.

Im gonna restart now. in the wiki guide it says satteliting ottoman empire would remove the crimean war event. is victory in war the only war to make a sattelite of a nation or can diplomatic acts do the trick??

oxmonsta · 05-07-2006, 04:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swamp Rat

Im gonna restart now. in the wiki guide it says satteliting ottoman empire would remove the crimean war event. is victory in war the only war to make a sattelite of a nation or can diplomatic acts do the trick??

You have to fight them in a war, and then demand satellite in a peace treaty. Satelliting costs 70% warscore, so you'll have to thoroughly trounce the Ottomans for them to accept becoming your satellite.

starbright · 05-07-2006, 04:08

Only war.

And Russia is a very difficult nation to play. I gave up on it in my games.

The sequence I want to try eventually is to go after army and economic techs until the Crimean War, then a bit of industry so that I can colonise. And after filling the colonies full industialization.

That might work better than what I tried before.

DaveK · 05-07-2006, 04:51

Is it possible to trigger Tsar of All Slavs without triggering the Crimean War? If it is, I guess you could shoot for that, which gives you the Ottoman Balkans and satellites them. I always found it fairly easy to conquer the Balkans before the UK and France intervened heavily, but that's probably partly because I play on Normal difficulty, since I'm not very good at the game.

NikkTheTrick · 05-07-2006, 05:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveK

Is it possible to trigger Tsar of All Slavs without triggering the Crimean War? If it is, I guess you could shoot for that, which gives you the Ottoman Balkans and satellites them. I always found it fairly easy to conquer the Balkans before the UK and France intervened heavily, but that's probably partly because I play on Normal difficulty, since I'm not very good at the game.

Even on VH/furious you can blitz through the Balkans from the start. If Tsar of all Slavs is triggered before the Crimean war, that nasty war will never happen.

Machine parts is a problem for everyone except UK. Even when you are #1 ranked (thanks to the Tsar of all Slavs prestiege

) you will still have a hard time getting those since for several yeas UK uses up all they can produce.

Spruce · 05-07-2006, 10:13

it's good that machine tools is toned down - I recall the first Victoria patchs, machine tools fell out the sky and the game got screwed.

Machine tools simulates the slow pace at which industrialisation happened - first in UK, then in Belgium, then France and Germany ...

That's why it's a pity there's no event for Belgium that gives them a boost cause they were number second to industrialise ... thanks to the Britisch !

RELee · 05-07-2006, 13:17

I only quickly browsed through this thread, so if I am repeating somebody - forgive me.

If you haven't already read it, may I suggest Machine Parts 101 on the VickyWiki site? It may not be 100% accurate for 1.04, but it's close enough for government work.

Y'all take care now. Hear?

TheLand · 05-07-2006, 15:06

You have to research the tree that leads to Precision Work as soon as possible.

These days Machine Parts are required to build railroads and colonies... when you are without a MP factory it's difficult to build an empire or even improve your agricultural productivity with railroads.

I've not played as Russia on the current patch but I imagine the new MP-cost for railroads slows Russia down considerably, and more so than other nations which start technologically backward but have fewer productive provinces that need to be railroaded.

No longer can you build a railway to Siberia in the 1840s!

Yakman · 05-07-2006, 17:56

As Russia, you have the ability to purchase the tools on the world market, because you can kick some oriental butt and boost your prestige to the necessary level (either #2 or #3--beyond that, it's a fat chance to get the machine parts). It's a good idea to do this--especially because you can trigger the Tsar of All Slavs event (my favorite).

You wind up having to fight most of the rest of Europe, but it's worth it, if just for the coolness factor.

Also, because you are Russia, you get insane amounts of raw materials, so when you get the technologies you can manufacture a LOT of machine parts and make tons of money.

Swamp Rat · 05-07-2006, 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yakman

As Russia, you have the ability to purchase the tools on the world market, because you can kick some oriental butt and boost your prestige to the necessary level (either #2 or #3--beyond that, it's a fat chance to get the machine parts). It's a good idea to do this--especially because you can trigger the Tsar of All Slavs event (my favorite).

You wind up having to fight most of the rest of Europe, but it's worth it, if just for the coolness factor.

Also, because you are Russia, you get insane amounts of raw materials, so when you get the technologies you can manufacture a LOT of machine parts and make tons of money.

I did conquer and annex some of the smaller central asian countries (those around afghanistan). But maybe annexing isnt the way to gain prestige. Everytime i wound up with 1 less than i started with cause of the higher cost of prestige in declaring war than you get when you succesfully annex. Is it better to make the sattelites or anything else to gain more prestige out of a succesful war?

Swamp Rat · 05-07-2006, 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by RELee

I only quickly browsed through this thread, so if I am repeating somebody - forgive me.

If you haven't already read it, may I suggest Machine Parts 101 on the VickyWiki site? It may not be 100% accurate for 1.04, but it's close enough for government work.

Y'all take care now. Hear?

Yes i did read that prior to posting. And it does give good information but it doesnt say that you can actually wait decades if not half a century or more for the machine parts before theyre actually gettin out on the market. I did think that it was 10 years at most from reading that, thats why i got a bit worried, but now i know

Yakman · 05-07-2006, 21:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swamp Rat

I did conquer and annex some of the smaller central asian countries (those around afghanistan). But maybe annexing isnt the way to gain prestige. Everytime i wound up with 1 less than i started with cause of the higher cost of prestige in declaring war than you get when you succesfully annex. Is it better to make the sattelites or anything else to gain more prestige out of a succesful war?

The khanates aren't what I'm talking about.

The money shot is the Ottoman Empire. Follow that up with Korea and perhaps Japan and Northern China.

NikkTheTrick · 05-07-2006, 21:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yakman

The khanates aren't what I'm talking about.

The money shot is the Ottoman Empire. Follow that up with Korea and perhaps Japan and Northern China.

I'd say Japan, China and Korea are not necessary. Tzar of All Slavs will give you a lot of prestiege and income for little badboy, provided you annex those 3 Ottoman satellites. Sure, you will not overtake Britain, but you will be way ahead others, hence the MP-rich 2 place.

Yakman · 05-07-2006, 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by NikkTheTrick

I'd say Japan, China and Korea are not necessary. Tzar of All Slavs will give you a lot of prestiege and income for little badboy, provided you annex those 3 Ottoman satellites. Sure, you will not overtake Britain, but you will be way ahead others, hence the MP-rich 2 place.

Korea is nice though--it's an excellent springboard for eastern expansion.

I snatch it up after I get the Czar of All Slavs.

Swamp Rat · 05-07-2006, 22:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yakman

Korea is nice though--it's an excellent springboard for eastern expansion.

I snatch it up after I get the Czar of All Slavs.

But isnt there special requirements for firing Czar of all Slavs? Wikipedia doesnt mention it. I only got protector of Slavs in the Balkans.

04-07-2006, 22:37	#5
KaiserChicken Imperial Flu Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Regnum Portucalensis Posts: 1,318	Most initial industrial techs, which are not related to chemistry or railroad, give you machine parts __________________ Lusofonia Universalis Victoria Flag Directory

05-07-2006, 04:08	#8
starbright First Lieutenant Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: CA Posts: 288	Only war. And Russia is a very difficult nation to play. I gave up on it in my games. The sequence I want to try eventually is to go after army and economic techs until the Crimean War, then a bit of industry so that I can colonise. And after filling the colonies full industialization. That might work better than what I tried before. __________________ Anyway, this is a juvenile argument. I give up, starbright. You win. You've proven that you can be far more relentless and thick-headed than I can tolerate. Congratulations on being the top pinhead. --Himiko

05-07-2006, 10:13	#11
Spruce Straight Templar Monk Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: off to Jerusalem to do some crusading Posts: 6,675	it's good that machine tools is toned down - I recall the first Victoria patchs, machine tools fell out the sky and the game got screwed. Machine tools simulates the slow pace at which industrialisation happened - first in UK, then in Belgium, then France and Germany ... That's why it's a pity there's no event for Belgium that gives them a boost cause they were number second to industrialise ... thanks to the Britisch ! __________________ Give me dukes as vassals ! Anytime - anywhere ! No hay banda - there is no band - it's all an illusion One of the most underrated games needs your support = Take Command Second Manassas (visit at http://www.madminutegames.com )

05-07-2006, 13:17	#12
RELee NOT the General Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Way down south in Dixie, but my home is not of this world. Posts: 3,383 Blog Entries: 24	I only quickly browsed through this thread, so if I am repeating somebody - forgive me. If you haven't already read it, may I suggest Machine Parts 101 on the VickyWiki site? It may not be 100% accurate for 1.04, but it's close enough for government work. Y'all take care now. Hear? __________________ In Constant Flux: The RELee Web Site Meeting pretty much all of your VIP needs now. "The president of the United States should never promote a particular religion. That's just another thing that makes us such a great nation; being able to worship God as we choose" - George W. Bush "I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."-Thomas Jefferson "I think the most un-American thing you can say is, 'You can't say that.'".-Garrison Keillor Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. Known also as the fabled RELee on the AGEOD forums.

05-07-2006, 15:06	#13
TheLand Post-Captain Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 3,949	You have to research the tree that leads to Precision Work as soon as possible. These days Machine Parts are required to build railroads and colonies... when you are without a MP factory it's difficult to build an empire or even improve your agricultural productivity with railroads. I've not played as Russia on the current patch but I imagine the new MP-cost for railroads slows Russia down considerably, and more so than other nations which start technologically backward but have fewer productive provinces that need to be railroaded. No longer can you build a railway to Siberia in the 1840s! __________________ Author of Land Doctrine FAQ 1940 Mod for HOI2 Demo The Grey Ships - A British Battleship AAR (DD) V:R: A French Capitalists AAR

04-07-2006, 22:06	#1
Swamp Rat Backroom Backstabber Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Lost in the 18th century Posts: 1,753	Machine Tools for Russia Im a newbie playing Russia for the first time. It seems theyre completely paralyzed by lack of machine tools. Trade buy <1, <10 or <40 doesnt help at all. Improving relations to UK (got them to 170 so far) doesnt help either. And its impossible to build anything at all, even an industry that can create machine tools (seems like somewhat of a catch 22 that one). Please help, what am i doing wrong??

04-07-2006, 22:16	#3
Tambourmajor Biased Intellectal Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Austria Posts: 3,602 Blog Entries: 2	Does Russia have a steel factory at start? If not, then you absolutely need to save your machine parts stockpile until the Precision Works invention fires. You are going to need a large steel industry plus at least 10 MPs to build a MP factory. __________________ "When a war breaks out, people say: 'It's too stupid; it can't last long.' But though the war may well be 'too stupid', that doesn't prevent its lasting. Stupidity has a knack of getting its way; as we should see if we were not always so much wrapped up in ourselves." (Albert Camus)

04-07-2006, 23:01	#6
Swamp Rat Backroom Backstabber Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Lost in the 18th century Posts: 1,753	thx for the replies. when i posted the question i was in 1847. I had read in the sparse russia guide in the wiki that an event called "first russian railroad" fired in 1837! so i felt a bit lost. i get it now that machine parts are very hard to get and a great power like russia probably needs to produce them itself. Unfortunately in my game i suddenly became entangled in the crimean war and the whole world (it seemed. austria, sweden, some italian states and of course ottoman, france and uk) DOWed me and i was done for. Im gonna restart now. in the wiki guide it says satteliting ottoman empire would remove the crimean war event. is victory in war the only war to make a sattelite of a nation or can diplomatic acts do the trick??

05-07-2006, 04:51	#9
DaveK Sergeant Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 64	Is it possible to trigger Tsar of All Slavs without triggering the Crimean War? If it is, I guess you could shoot for that, which gives you the Ottoman Balkans and satellites them. I always found it fairly easy to conquer the Balkans before the UK and France intervened heavily, but that's probably partly because I play on Normal difficulty, since I'm not very good at the game.

05-07-2006, 17:56	#14
Yakman Play Like A Champion Today Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Washington, District of Columbia Posts: 4,152	As Russia, you have the ability to purchase the tools on the world market, because you can kick some oriental butt and boost your prestige to the necessary level (either #2 or #3--beyond that, it's a fat chance to get the machine parts). It's a good idea to do this--especially because you can trigger the Tsar of All Slavs event (my favorite). You wind up having to fight most of the rest of Europe, but it's worth it, if just for the coolness factor. Also, because you are Russia, you get insane amounts of raw materials, so when you get the technologies you can manufacture a LOT of machine parts and make tons of money. __________________ "Again again I say to you, Yakman* speaketh the truth.* -Petrarca Art is a lie which makes us realize the truth -- Pablo Picasso ++ Member of the Christian Paradox Players' Club ++ ++ -1000, History-Forum Banned january 5, 2006 ++ OT-Forum Banned may 8, 2007 ++ God has given you one face, and you make yourself another -- William Shakespeare