The Battle of Vienna

[Dusan]

This is the idea from another post.
The Battle of Vienna (took place on 12 September 1683 ) strongly decided future of Europe and is in the timeframe of EU III. The battle marked the turning point in the 300-year struggle between the forces of the Central European kingdoms, and the Ottoman Empire (Habsburgs, Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, Saxony, Bavaria, other allies vs. Ottoman Empire, Khanate of Crimea, Central Hungary, Transylvania, Wallachia, Moldavia).

I suppose nobody will question that.

My question is will it be event (like Spanish civil war in HOI, send help and troops etc.) in EU III, or game engine will recreate this war?

Or this will not be in EU III?

[Registered]

Originally Posted by Dusan

Or this will not be in EU III?

That's it. On the whole, Paradox games do not simulate battles. Sure, in most of your games the Ottomans and the Austrians will fight. The Ottoman AI maight even get as far as besieging Vienna. But making an event out of it would not be good.

[Dusan]

Originally Posted by Registered

That's it. On the whole, Paradox games do not simulate battles. Sure, in most of your games the Ottomans and the Austrians will fight. The Ottoman AI maight even get as far as besieging Vienna. But making an event out of it would not be good.

I agree that this should not be event, but the strong impact on European relations (as foundation of Holy League) should not be missed.
This is first paneuropean war.

[The Boss]

Well it could be made a simple event that checks how many troops the Austrians has in case the Ottomans are besieging Vienna. If low on troops, an event could fire giving some troops to the Austrians so they have a chance to stop the besiege itself.

[saskganesh]

its would be a good start date for a scenario, yeah.

This is first paneuropean war.

"30 years war" had fronts ranging from Spain, Italy, France, Holland, Germany, Austria and Denmark. Also fairly pan-european.

[Skarion]

"30 years war" had fronts ranging from Spain, Italy, France, Holland, Germany, Austria and Denmark. Also fairly pan-european.

From Spain to Austria to northern Sweden I think is the borders of the 30 years war.

To not bring in Sweden when talking about the 30 years war have to be rather neglecting of reality. *nods as the Swedish patriot I am*

[Jayavarman]

I made a scenario for this in EUII. Try it out.

[curtis]

There could be a fantasy event for the Ottomans should they capture Vienna, akin to what happened to the Mamluks when Cairo falls. But I doubt it.

[th3freakie]

Originally Posted by curtis

There could be a fantasy event for the Ottomans should they capture Vienna, akin to what happened to the Mamluks when Cairo falls. But I doubt it.

Actualy it ain't a bad idea at all - even if it just gives cores or Victory Points (or reputation now)

[basharious]

I think a fanatsy event should occur, should the ottmans capture Vinnea, or a punch of events, like the ones happen when The Ottmans capture constantinople, because that would be a great victory for ottmans, and it might lead to ottmans lead to going further, but that should give them huge badboy effects, so the Europeans should sort of unite to defeat the ottmans, maybe the Pope calling for a crusader.

[curtis]

Originally Posted by th3freakie

Actualy it ain't a bad idea at all - even if it just gives cores or Victory Points (or reputation now)

Well of course, it's not a bad idea, I suggested it :nods:

I just don't think an event like it will be in the game.

[Lord_D]

Then also do the same if the OE captures Rome, now that would be painfully

[Dusan]

I agree with you.
The poit of this post is to identify , sort of, key events in this time frame and try to implement them in game.
This will make game more realistic , and hopefully make it different from EU II.

[Sute]{h]

Originally Posted by saskganesh

"30 years war" had fronts ranging from Spain, Italy, France, Holland, Germany, Austria and Denmark. Also fairly pan-european.

And from a state theory point of view the 30-year war was the most significant war within this timeframe. It consolidated the idea of the sovereign state.

As to the battle of Vienna. I agree that should the Ottomans manage to capture Vienna some sort of fantasy event would be nice. I would recommend giving out more cores, as this will encourage the player to act ahistorical. Perhaps prestige if that is implemented or simply victory points. Of course there should be an European reaction.

[Yasko]

Originally Posted by 'Sute

As to the battle of Vienna. I agree that should the Ottomans manage to capture Vienna some sort of fantasy event would be nice. I would recommend giving out more cores, as this will encourage the player to act ahistorical. Perhaps prestige if that is implemented or simply victory points. Of course there should be an European reaction.

The question is what kind of plans Kara Mustapha Pasha had if he managed to conqure Vienna and how realistic those plans were to realize. I dont think Ottomans could manage to much even if they conqured Vienna 1683 to be honest, after all they did manage to conqure Tabriz, the capital of Safevides without much lasting impact. They were overstrecht logistically after 1550s. I would rather prefer fantasy events for the conquest of Rome if it happened earlier(especially during the time of Mehmed II since he really claimed to be the Kayser-i Rum i.e Roman Ceaser)..

[Lord_D]

if he had captured it, all major european powers should get a cassus belli against the OE, OE gains stability victory points, and then can start marching for Rome

[curtis]

Originally Posted by Lord_D

if he had captured it, all major european powers should get a cassus belli against the OE, OE gains stability victory points, and then can start marching for Rome

All Catholic countries get a CB on any country that occupies Rome besides the Papal States anyway

[Vulture]

I hate deterministic events

[SecondReich]

I like the idea of the Ottomans getting some sort of bonus for capturing Vienna.

[Tunch Khan]

Originally Posted by Yasko

The question is what kind of plans Kara Mustapha Pasha had if he managed to conqure Vienna and how realistic those plans were to realize. I dont think Ottomans could manage to much even if they conqured Vienna 1683 to be honest, after all they did manage to conqure Tabriz, the capital of Safevides without much lasting impact. They were overstrecht logistically after 1550s. I would rather prefer fantasy events for the conquest of Rome if it happened earlier(especially during the time of Mehmed II since he really claimed to be the Kayser-i Rum i.e Roman Ceaser)..

Certainly Vienna was at the mercy of Kara Mustafa Pasha for a very long time during the siege. He had more than enough troops and equipment to capture the city within a few hours frontal assault. However, being a megalomaniac Grand Vizier rather than a good general, he refrained from that decision and continued the siege until the Polish and Germans came to Vienna's aid and lifted the siege.

The reason behind Kara Mustafa Pasha's choice of patiently waiting for a surrender rather than an assault was legal. Had he choosen for an assault, according to Ottoman/Islamic law, his troops had the right to plunder the city for three consequent days and loot everything they could find before the Commanding Pasha (or Sultan) walked in. These plunders almost always destroyed the cultural character of the city and caused less wealth to be added to the Imperial treasure, as well as the personal treasure of the Commander in Chief.