AI does indeed seem "Intelligent" but is weak regardless.

rivak1 · 06-05-2006, 03:19

So it seems to me after 4 games at Intelligent level (or I could be very lucky). By weak I mean "weak-tight" as in the poker term. A player who pretty much knows to play good cards (and in never slightly varying from this becomes predictable), but plays them so timidly that he winds up losing by not betting aggressivley (not making as much as he can on the rare strong hands he gets), or by folding too much to another stronger player who has spotted the "weak" player's weakness and keeps raising him out.

The AI can dance. It can add defensive modules to thwart your offensive weapons. It can build a military starbase next to your home world (a bad move if you ask me, given my relative strength) but backs down when you send in some strong ships to sit next to it.

Map size: one below largest possible. Rare Habitable worlds so almost every world counts (and I wish Rare would be even less worlds--I realize it would be so on a smaller map, but the galaxy is a big place, no?). Uncommon anomalies. Loose, scattered clusters to ensure maximum possible fairness. Five AIs at Intelligent. All Victory conditions off so it is "conquest" by default. I had a below average starting position. Custom Economic/Morale race so I am handicapped already (okay +15% to research).

After a shabby start I went to war with the Yor who had a shabbier start than I did. The Yor had bad position and bad luck and were no threat so I took them out. When they (Yor) were down to their last 4 planets the Arceans (hostile) built a military starbase next to my home world. Prior to that they colonized the class 4 planet next to my world which I left for last since the rush was on to expand into something better than a class 4. Building on a world next to my home world, 6 sectors away from their worlds is them saying to me, "Hi, can you please come over and kill me?" Which I eventually did.

What were they thinking building a military starbase next to my home planet

? There was a constructor on the way and since the base was an empty shell I got some ships there fast to monitor the constructor. At 3 parsecs per turn it was 4 turns away. I didn't want to start a war since I'd have to make peace with the Yor to face the Arceans, but that wouldn't be so bad because the Yor were forever crippled and I had no doubt I would forever cripple the Arceans. I'd just have to move the bulk of my fighters and transports to them, which would be a pain depending on where they would decide to attack. So if the constructor got to within 2 moves of the military starbase, bye bye starbase and constructor and the scrawny ships they had next to my home world. They backed down (shades of 1961) and redirected the constructor to a resource they had in my sphere of influence, and moved all but one of their ships away. Note that I relialize the AI may have had the constructor going somewhere else anyway--and I know the AI doesn't think.

But they should have attacked, or tried to reinforce the starbase. I was getting too strong. It's a conquest game. They were still a bit stronger than I was. If this was an attempt, it was half hearted. That's not how you win. A few turns after the Yor surrender to me the powerful Drengin are fighting the mediocre Arceans and the fairly weak Torians. What luck, I thought, since I had my entire fleet and quite a few transports in the area. And the Drengin are "warm" to me and the Korx in the corner (sleeping) like me as well. I just took the Arceans down. I don't think the Drengin AI had any idea of what to do. Then I took the Torians. The Drengin went to neutral.

Now this is a sore point for me (design-wise, aside from that I couldn't care less). I don't stand for this during the game. The Torians surrendered their last four worlds to the Drengin, and I had transports ready to land on the next turn on three of those four planets. Sorry, but WWII Germany cannot surrender to the Italians when the Soviets come knocking on Berlin's door. Oh, you'll have to go away, Stalin, this is Italian territory. Yeah, right. That's impossible. It's a nice twist to a game, I can appreciate it, but it's unrealistic to me. The AI once surrendered to a race that made the invasions easier (worse soldiers). So I went back an instant save and this time they surrendered to me. Sorry, that's just too cheesy an escape. I wish they would have an option to remove that from the game.

Now I still have to see what the Drengin are going to do. They have, temporarily, the better military, but I have the higher logistics, and I've crushed them in economy, production and technology, so in ten to fifteen turns they will lose any chance to win. I'm sure they will. Lose that is.

As far as I recall, the pre 1.1 AI gave a better fight. 1.1 is way too weak. It's a smart AI to be sure--no doubt about that, but very passive. Of course, there are higher levels. And true, the Drengin attacked the Arceans who were between us. The Drengin may have attacked me if I was next to them, so maybe I just got lucky. I can see this.

For now, on Intelligent I will be looking for a horrible "start" position. That will no doubt give me a good game. Or I can brave the higher levels.

Now I "did" enjoy the game (still to be finished). But I was never in any real trouble. Perhaps I scared the Arceans away. I don't know. I don't feel complete. I think I'll have some ice cream. Seriously though, I was wondering if anyone else felt fairly secure during a game. Perhaps it was just luck. Thanks.

**Castellon** · 06-05-2006, 05:41

Yes with all AI set to Intelligent, that is the top AI level, all the higher ones use this level just with bonuses to their Economy.

The main problem is that I am able to only go to war when I want. Which is to say when it is advatages to me.

With the Drengin I usually send my first trade ship to them, which keeps them off my back and they pick a different target. Trade with everyone and make sure you have the biggest military and I have never had someone declare war on me.

Zanza · 06-05-2006, 08:53

I agree with everything you wrote.

Several weaknesses I noticed so far:

AI does never specialise its planets, i.e. no planets that only have factories to produce ships quickly.
AI does spend inane amounts of money and resources on static defenses, i.e. the ships in orbit. Mobile warfare is much cheaper though and with unrestricted movement it's definitely advantageous to have ships moving around in fleets and meeting the enemy in open combat than waiting for him to assemble a superior fleet an blasting you from orbit. I can easily achieve local superiority even with numerical inferior units because the AI doesn't move most of its ships from orbits.
AI doesn't seem to know what starbases are good for. It builds the occasional economics starbase, but it doesn't seem to cluster several of them together with its best planets. On top of that it seems to pick the location of starbases at random and doesn't seem to try to get the bonuses to as many planets as possible.
AI doesn't always go for those resources as fast as possible. It sometimes builds an economic starbase first? Which is obviously a bad choice as an economics starbase may influence like 5 planets at maximum while the resources give an empire-wide bonus. Bad priorities.
AIs never make alliances against me. Really, when I am the evil empire that has conquered half the galaxy, everybody else should gang up on me and not attack me one at a time. That's a bad movie-villain tactic that always backfires They even made alliances like that back in Civ2 (or 3?) and it certainly serves to make the end game interesting as you have to win the last big struggle.

**Castellon** · 06-05-2006, 10:05

Add to that the AI only designs ships once a year.
Something I only learned yesterday from Brad at Stardock.

So if it get a major tech like nano ripper one week after it designed ships, you will not see any ships with that weapon for more than 50 turns.

G'Kar · 06-05-2006, 10:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Castellon

So if it get a major tech like nano ripper one week after it designed ships, you will not see any ships with that weapon for more than 50 turns.

Well, the game year has only 48 turns in GalCiv 2, and you'll have to wait about 24 turns on the average. I agree that it is a problem in general though, but fortunately they're aware of the problem and intend to do something against it.
AI ship design is relatively resource intensive, that's why it isn't done more often at the moment. Brad said he thinks about at least adding an option enabling the AI to design more often.

Zanza · 06-05-2006, 10:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Castellon

Add to that the AI only designs ships once a year.
Something I only learned yesterday from Brad at Stardock.

So if it get a major tech like nano ripper one week after it designed ships, you will not see any ships with that weapon for more than 50 turns.

Wow, that sucks. Explains why the AI usually fights with outdated stuff.

rivak1 · 06-05-2006, 12:28

Yes, I beat the Drengins. They had superior weaponry but they just sat there and waited for me. I massed my ships and took them quickly. I quit there since the Korx were well behind me. Btw, neutral seems a good choice (for me) since you get the research upgrade.

I agree that the AI needs to go for resources. That's number one... well, part of a big number one

I even start short wars (you can end a war after several turns by paying off your opponent) just to destroy the starbase they have at a resource (when they have 0 attack--empty mining starbase). If the AI fortifies it's mining bases early, then I can't take them.

The AI needs to be more aggressive. I could swear it was pre 1.1 but I only played a few games pre 1.1. If the AI gangs up on aggressors, I don't see it. A few tweaks might be all it needs. On to find a bad position now.

onomastikon · 07-05-2006, 20:22

Good posts.
Tiny additions:
- AI fails to judge tactics correctly. (Still sends vastly inferior fleets to defeat my butch starbases.
- AI may have more powerful units, but will fail to use them correctly. (I can hit-and-run him to death with fewer, weaker units, crippling his "Military Might: 198" (vs mine of 104) down to 68 in just one week.

Gebhard Blucher · 07-05-2006, 21:03

Agree with a lot of your points. The AI doesn't seem to play to win, and it's far to easy to cow/placate imo.

I can think of a few quick fixes that may improve the AI's game.

One would be to remove the "stacking" starbase bonuses. The AI obviously isn't programmed to make use of overlapping starbases so why even have it in the game?

Another would be to remove the two-way trade benefit. I can bomb the AI I fear the most with trade routes and they will likely leave me alone because they benefit from the trade as much as I do. That and stuff like gifting trinket techs can often buy me time I need to win.

In fact, remove the whole "relations" thing totally. I don't hold off on attacking a civ that's ripe for conquest because I'm especially friendly with them. You gotta do what you gotta do.

The game is about raw conquest/dominance, not a model of economic/diplomatic relations.

Also certain wonders are overpowered. I can build a spin control center and park 8 of my best ships in orbit and my military graph will go off the chart, causing the AI to become so timid it's hard to lose. I've never been a fan of unique wonders either. The human player will always make a bee-line for the best wonders, and know just when to make the ones that give a more situational benefit. We also make it a point to first conquer the planets the AI has its wonders on.

All in all though, I think the AI does fantastic job. It's really quite impressive considering that it doesn't cheat (unless you choose to let it).

My real complaint with the game is that I feel like I've done it all before. I'm already getting kind of bored with it.

rivak1 · 08-05-2006, 00:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gebhard Blucher

We also make it a point to first conquer the planets the AI has its wonders on.

(

I never knew one could see what was on their planets (wonder-wise). How do you see that, lol?

As you do, I don't see the point in one race wonders. It's too overpowering. Diplomatic wonders are very strong (Universal Translator and the later Galactic Showcase and the other--I forget the name.

The +50% research wonder--forgot which tech allows it--is a killer. I'll try a game where I don't build wonders.

Gebhard Blucher · 08-05-2006, 00:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by rivak1

I never knew one could see what was on their planets (wonder-wise). How do you see that, lol?

Hmm. I thought you could see wonders along with the other plantary structures with a high enough espionage rating?

I'm pretty sure you can see them, but now you've got me doubting my memory.

onomastikon · 08-05-2006, 06:00

Yes, you can see them with high esp. rating.

**Castellon** · 08-05-2006, 07:29

The Research wonder is not that powerful, since it only effects the planet it is built on and only gives a 50% bonus, where as the tech capitol give 100% bonus.

Diplomatic translators are a Trade good and so not necessarily uniques to one race.

Zanza · 08-05-2006, 07:41

The Galactic stock exchange or however it is called is way too powerful. It gives a +50% bonus on economy empire-wide.

**Castellon** · 08-05-2006, 10:08

The one good thing about Stardock is that they seem very interested in improving the AI, as well as other aspects.
And now that it is a top ten seller, it ensures continued support and an expansion pack.

random50 · 10-05-2006, 15:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zanza

The Galactic stock exchange or however it is called is way too powerful. It gives a +50% bonus on economy empire-wide.

Does it? How does that work?

I've never seen it in game, including starting a Battle of the Gods scenario. Do you just get a 50% bonus if you happen to be the first to build a stock exchange?

Zanza · 10-05-2006, 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by random50

Does it? How does that work?

I've never seen it in game, including starting a Battle of the Gods scenario. Do you just get a 50% bonus if you happen to be the first to build a stock exchange?

It's a galactic wonder that comes relatively late in the game.

**Castellon** · 10-05-2006, 21:23

Actually IIRC it is a 25% bonus.
Galactic monumnet give a 10% bonus

Local bonuses from wonders include:
10% from Manu capitol
50% from Econ Capitol
10% from Hyper distribution center.

This chart shows them:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...achmentid=7458

SjurWarEagle · 11-05-2006, 00:30

@Zanza:
You haven't seen it because they broke the dependencies, in the techtree.xml the tech is spelled "Advanced Trade" but in the PlanetImprovements it requires "AdvancedTrade".
So you'll never see it until they fix this bug.

I mailed them about 5 times on this bug, it's included since the first 1.1-betas...

it gives 2x25% one 25% bonus for this planet and 25% overall for you civilization.

rivak1 · 11-05-2006, 03:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by SjurWarEagle

@Zanza:
You haven't seen it because they broke the dependencies, in the techtree.xml the tech is spelled "Advanced Trade" but in the PlanetImprovements it requires "AdvancedTrade".
So you'll never see it until they fix this bug.

I mailed them about 5 times on this bug, it's included since the first 1.1-betas...

it gives 2x25% one 25% bonus for this planet and 25% overall for you civilization.

Is it possible to fix this by putting a space between the words in Planet Improvements? I just woke up so I'm feeling lazy, lol. I'll check. Thanks.

edit... from my brief look it appears you can fix it by putting a space there, not sure if you'll be able to play on the metaverse. I do remember it, I researched it, but you're right, I haven't seen it since the 1.1s, if I'm not becoming senile.

06-05-2006, 03:19	#1
rivak1 Registered Gorilla Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Southern California Zoo Posts: 281	AI does indeed seem "Intelligent" but is weak regardless. So it seems to me after 4 games at Intelligent level (or I could be very lucky). By weak I mean "weak-tight" as in the poker term. A player who pretty much knows to play good cards (and in never slightly varying from this becomes predictable), but plays them so timidly that he winds up losing by not betting aggressivley (not making as much as he can on the rare strong hands he gets), or by folding too much to another stronger player who has spotted the "weak" player's weakness and keeps raising him out. The AI can dance. It can add defensive modules to thwart your offensive weapons. It can build a military starbase next to your home world (a bad move if you ask me, given my relative strength) but backs down when you send in some strong ships to sit next to it. Map size: one below largest possible. Rare Habitable worlds so almost every world counts (and I wish Rare would be even less worlds--I realize it would be so on a smaller map, but the galaxy is a big place, no?). Uncommon anomalies. Loose, scattered clusters to ensure maximum possible fairness. Five AIs at Intelligent. All Victory conditions off so it is "conquest" by default. I had a below average starting position. Custom Economic/Morale race so I am handicapped already (okay +15% to research). After a shabby start I went to war with the Yor who had a shabbier start than I did. The Yor had bad position and bad luck and were no threat so I took them out. When they (Yor) were down to their last 4 planets the Arceans (hostile) built a military starbase next to my home world. Prior to that they colonized the class 4 planet next to my world which I left for last since the rush was on to expand into something better than a class 4. Building on a world next to my home world, 6 sectors away from their worlds is them saying to me, "Hi, can you please come over and kill me?" Which I eventually did. What were they thinking building a military starbase next to my home planet ? There was a constructor on the way and since the base was an empty shell I got some ships there fast to monitor the constructor. At 3 parsecs per turn it was 4 turns away. I didn't want to start a war since I'd have to make peace with the Yor to face the Arceans, but that wouldn't be so bad because the Yor were forever crippled and I had no doubt I would forever cripple the Arceans. I'd just have to move the bulk of my fighters and transports to them, which would be a pain depending on where they would decide to attack. So if the constructor got to within 2 moves of the military starbase, bye bye starbase and constructor and the scrawny ships they had next to my home world. They backed down (shades of 1961) and redirected the constructor to a resource they had in my sphere of influence, and moved all but one of their ships away. Note that I relialize the AI may have had the constructor going somewhere else anyway--and I know the AI doesn't think. But they should have attacked, or tried to reinforce the starbase. I was getting too strong. It's a conquest game. They were still a bit stronger than I was. If this was an attempt, it was half hearted. That's not how you win. A few turns after the Yor surrender to me the powerful Drengin are fighting the mediocre Arceans and the fairly weak Torians. What luck, I thought, since I had my entire fleet and quite a few transports in the area. And the Drengin are "warm" to me and the Korx in the corner (sleeping) like me as well. I just took the Arceans down. I don't think the Drengin AI had any idea of what to do. Then I took the Torians. The Drengin went to neutral. Now this is a sore point for me (design-wise, aside from that I couldn't care less). I don't stand for this during the game. The Torians surrendered their last four worlds to the Drengin, and I had transports ready to land on the next turn on three of those four planets. Sorry, but WWII Germany cannot surrender to the Italians when the Soviets come knocking on Berlin's door. Oh, you'll have to go away, Stalin, this is Italian territory. Yeah, right. That's impossible. It's a nice twist to a game, I can appreciate it, but it's unrealistic to me. The AI once surrendered to a race that made the invasions easier (worse soldiers). So I went back an instant save and this time they surrendered to me. Sorry, that's just too cheesy an escape. I wish they would have an option to remove that from the game. Now I still have to see what the Drengin are going to do. They have, temporarily, the better military, but I have the higher logistics, and I've crushed them in economy, production and technology, so in ten to fifteen turns they will lose any chance to win. I'm sure they will. Lose that is. As far as I recall, the pre 1.1 AI gave a better fight. 1.1 is way too weak. It's a smart AI to be sure--no doubt about that, but very passive. Of course, there are higher levels. And true, the Drengin attacked the Arceans who were between us. The Drengin may have attacked me if I was next to them, so maybe I just got lucky. I can see this. For now, on Intelligent I will be looking for a horrible "start" position. That will no doubt give me a good game. Or I can brave the higher levels. Now I "did" enjoy the game (still to be finished). But I was never in any real trouble. Perhaps I scared the Arceans away. I don't know. I don't feel complete. I think I'll have some ice cream. Seriously though, I was wondering if anyone else felt fairly secure during a game. Perhaps it was just luck. Thanks. Last edited by rivak1; 06-05-2006 at 03:49.

06-05-2006, 05:41	#2
Castellon God's Lightning Bolt! Administrator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Striking near you! Posts: 26,177	Yes with all AI set to Intelligent, that is the top AI level, all the higher ones use this level just with bonuses to their Economy. The main problem is that I am able to only go to war when I want. Which is to say when it is advatages to me. With the Drengin I usually send my first trade ship to them, which keeps them off my back and they pick a different target. Trade with everyone and make sure you have the biggest military and I have never had someone declare war on me. __________________ I have been dealt a good hand in life, now I am just looking for a few more cards! Winner of TOEE POTY 2005

06-05-2006, 08:53	#3
Zanza Field Marshal Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Singapore Posts: 3,763	I agree with everything you wrote. Several weaknesses I noticed so far: AI does never specialise its planets, i.e. no planets that only have factories to produce ships quickly. AI does spend inane amounts of money and resources on static defenses, i.e. the ships in orbit. Mobile warfare is much cheaper though and with unrestricted movement it's definitely advantageous to have ships moving around in fleets and meeting the enemy in open combat than waiting for him to assemble a superior fleet an blasting you from orbit. I can easily achieve local superiority even with numerical inferior units because the AI doesn't move most of its ships from orbits. AI doesn't seem to know what starbases are good for. It builds the occasional economics starbase, but it doesn't seem to cluster several of them together with its best planets. On top of that it seems to pick the location of starbases at random and doesn't seem to try to get the bonuses to as many planets as possible. AI doesn't always go for those resources as fast as possible. It sometimes builds an economic starbase first? Which is obviously a bad choice as an economics starbase may influence like 5 planets at maximum while the resources give an empire-wide bonus. Bad priorities. AIs never make alliances against me. Really, when I am the evil empire that has conquered half the galaxy, everybody else should gang up on me and not attack me one at a time. That's a bad movie-villain tactic that always backfires They even made alliances like that back in Civ2 (or 3?) and it certainly serves to make the end game interesting as you have to win the last big struggle. __________________ Ich bin der Geist, der stets verneint! Und das mit Recht; denn alles, was entsteht, ist wert, dass es zugrunde geht; Drum besser wär's, dass nichts entstünde. So ist denn alles, was ihr Sünde, Zerstörung, kurz, das Böse nennt, Mein eigentliches Element.

06-05-2006, 10:05	#4
Castellon God's Lightning Bolt! Administrator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Striking near you! Posts: 26,177	Add to that the AI only designs ships once a year. Something I only learned yesterday from Brad at Stardock. So if it get a major tech like nano ripper one week after it designed ships, you will not see any ships with that weapon for more than 50 turns. __________________ I have been dealt a good hand in life, now I am just looking for a few more cards! Winner of TOEE POTY 2005

08-05-2006, 07:29	#13
Castellon God's Lightning Bolt! Administrator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Striking near you! Posts: 26,177	The Research wonder is not that powerful, since it only effects the planet it is built on and only gives a 50% bonus, where as the tech capitol give 100% bonus. Diplomatic translators are a Trade good and so not necessarily uniques to one race. __________________ I have been dealt a good hand in life, now I am just looking for a few more cards! Winner of TOEE POTY 2005

06-05-2006, 12:28	#7
rivak1 Registered Gorilla Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Southern California Zoo Posts: 281	Yes, I beat the Drengins. They had superior weaponry but they just sat there and waited for me. I massed my ships and took them quickly. I quit there since the Korx were well behind me. Btw, neutral seems a good choice (for me) since you get the research upgrade. I agree that the AI needs to go for resources. That's number one... well, part of a big number one I even start short wars (you can end a war after several turns by paying off your opponent) just to destroy the starbase they have at a resource (when they have 0 attack--empty mining starbase). If the AI fortifies it's mining bases early, then I can't take them. The AI needs to be more aggressive. I could swear it was pre 1.1 but I only played a few games pre 1.1. If the AI gangs up on aggressors, I don't see it. A few tweaks might be all it needs. On to find a bad position now.

07-05-2006, 20:22	#8
onomastikon Second Lieutenant Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 138	Good posts. Tiny additions: - AI fails to judge tactics correctly. (Still sends vastly inferior fleets to defeat my butch starbases. - AI may have more powerful units, but will fail to use them correctly. (I can hit-and-run him to death with fewer, weaker units, crippling his "Military Might: 198" (vs mine of 104) down to 68 in just one week.

07-05-2006, 21:03	#9
Gebhard Blucher Random Conquistador Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Ohio, US Posts: 777	Agree with a lot of your points. The AI doesn't seem to play to win, and it's far to easy to cow/placate imo. I can think of a few quick fixes that may improve the AI's game. One would be to remove the "stacking" starbase bonuses. The AI obviously isn't programmed to make use of overlapping starbases so why even have it in the game? Another would be to remove the two-way trade benefit. I can bomb the AI I fear the most with trade routes and they will likely leave me alone because they benefit from the trade as much as I do. That and stuff like gifting trinket techs can often buy me time I need to win. In fact, remove the whole "relations" thing totally. I don't hold off on attacking a civ that's ripe for conquest because I'm especially friendly with them. You gotta do what you gotta do. The game is about raw conquest/dominance, not a model of economic/diplomatic relations. Also certain wonders are overpowered. I can build a spin control center and park 8 of my best ships in orbit and my military graph will go off the chart, causing the AI to become so timid it's hard to lose. I've never been a fan of unique wonders either. The human player will always make a bee-line for the best wonders, and know just when to make the ones that give a more situational benefit. We also make it a point to first conquer the planets the AI has its wonders on. All in all though, I think the AI does fantastic job. It's really quite impressive considering that it doesn't cheat (unless you choose to let it). My real complaint with the game is that I feel like I've done it all before. I'm already getting kind of bored with it.

08-05-2006, 06:00	#12
onomastikon Second Lieutenant Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Berlin, Germany Posts: 138	Yes, you can see them with high esp. rating.

08-05-2006, 07:41	#14
Zanza Field Marshal Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Singapore Posts: 3,763	The Galactic stock exchange or however it is called is way too powerful. It gives a +50% bonus on economy empire-wide. __________________ Ich bin der Geist, der stets verneint! Und das mit Recht; denn alles, was entsteht, ist wert, dass es zugrunde geht; Drum besser wär's, dass nichts entstünde. So ist denn alles, was ihr Sünde, Zerstörung, kurz, das Böse nennt, Mein eigentliches Element.

08-05-2006, 10:08	#15
Castellon God's Lightning Bolt! Administrator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Striking near you! Posts: 26,177	The one good thing about Stardock is that they seem very interested in improving the AI, as well as other aspects. And now that it is a top ten seller, it ensures continued support and an expansion pack. __________________ I have been dealt a good hand in life, now I am just looking for a few more cards! Winner of TOEE POTY 2005

10-05-2006, 21:23	#18
Castellon God's Lightning Bolt! Administrator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Striking near you! Posts: 26,177	Actually IIRC it is a 25% bonus. Galactic monumnet give a 10% bonus Local bonuses from wonders include: 10% from Manu capitol 50% from Econ Capitol 10% from Hyper distribution center. This chart shows them: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/...achmentid=7458 __________________ I have been dealt a good hand in life, now I am just looking for a few more cards! Winner of TOEE POTY 2005

11-05-2006, 00:30	#19
SjurWarEagle Corporal Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 43	@Zanza: You haven't seen it because they broke the dependencies, in the techtree.xml the tech is spelled "Advanced Trade" but in the PlanetImprovements it requires "AdvancedTrade". So you'll never see it until they fix this bug. I mailed them about 5 times on this bug, it's included since the first 1.1-betas... it gives 2x25% one 25% bonus for this planet and 25% overall for you civilization.