EU III: The Discussion Metathread

Estonianzulu · 20-02-2006, 14:50

Hello, and welcome to the EU III Metathread.

As you know, Paradox has announced the creation of the third Europa Universalis title, and it has created quiet the discussion. To make sure we are all on the same page, and to keep discussions coordinated and limited (rather than overwhelm the paradox server!) the Metathread has been created. Below you will find links to and descriptions of all the current topics in the EU III forum. Before posting a new thread, or asking a question concerning the game, please look over these threads. It is likely that someone else had the same question, or voiced the same concern.

This is not to keep you from asking questions. On the contrary, if you have something you want to ask or discuss, please do. The Metathread just coordinates where you ask those questions. If you want to discuss something, please find the thread(s) in which it is currently being discussed and join there, rather than make a new thread.

Please be specific in your questions or comments. Topics such as “religion” or “sea-zones” have been discussed, and will continue to be discussed. A specific topic inside more general ones, such as “Effects of religions on colonial growth” is far more helpful. If you do post a new thread, with a new specific topic, let me know. I’ll be sure to add it to the Metathread and post a general summary concerning the topic in question. This way, we can hopefully limit the number of threads out there, ease the burden on the developers, and coordinate our discussions.

Thanks for all your help and patience,

Estonianzulu.

Stickies
IRC Channel
The Original Metathread
Friendly reminder from our Mods
Announcement from Mr.T

General Requests and Discussion

It's Official!

Official announcement thread

General Ideas

General Ideas from a new member

Thank You!

Thanks to Paradox for giving us EU III!

Poll Thread

Mr.T's Poll Thread

Mower's Thoughts

A detailed list of suggestions

Pictures and Concept Art

Our first look at EU III

Graphics, Requirements, etc.

Techical Support

On the minimum system requirements. NOTE: The minimum requirements have not yet been announced.

Concerning 3d Graphics

A request on the depth of the graphics for EU III

The Map, Provinces, Tooltips and Scales

Time and Distance

A discussion on the time lag difference between sending orders and having them completed; as well as a discussion on the ingame reinactment of this.

The Uber Map Thread

All the questions, concerns and statements about the map itself, provinces, etc. They go here, no where else

Cities/Localities

Discussion on cities and local areas compared to a broader view of provinces as a whole

Provence Improvements

Discussion and suggestions on the ways to handle province improvements, both for in game fun and historical accuracy

The Importance of Tooltips

On the usefullness of tooltips, and how they should be included in EU III.

Trade and Economics

The Economic System

Discussion on the use of trade centers compared to trade routes, and the historic justification of both

Taxes, Rebels, and Absolutism

A discussion on the use of 'tax sliders' to change the income system for EU III

Center of Trade Discussion

Further discussion on Trade Centers, and how to link the current EU2 system with something more indepth

Trade Center Distribution

Discussion on the allocation of provinces to centers of trade

Money in EU III

Suggestions on availability of investments using money in the early stages of the game

Holisticgod's "essentials"

Discussion on trade and finance changes, as well as naval options

Economy Merchants

Further discussion on CoT's and trade interaction

Infaltion Done Right

Discussion on the in game effects, causes and solutions to inflation

Diplomacy, Treaties, Vassals

Vassals

Discussion on the historic and ingame power of vassals

Claims, Treaties and Guarantees

Claims in relation to peace treaties, and ownership, a more complicated alliance system and named treaties

Personal Unions

Discusion on how to handle two countries ruled by the same monarch (Poland-Lithuania, Spain-Austria)

Diplomacy X3

Discussion on a more detailed diplomatic system and the ingame ramifications, as well as a diplomacy smart AI with monarch-specific traits

Core and Claims

"Imperial" vs "National" cores and claims

War, Victory and Alliances

Fallen Governments

When rebels take a capital city leading to peace; discussion on changing this

Colonies in Wartime

A request to change how colonies are handled during a war

Coalition Armies

Discussion on allies merging armies when fighting a common enemy

Capital Moving

After a capital has been conquered, it cannot be annexed in EU2, this discussion is on changing that

Annexations

Suggestions on limiting the rapid growth and annexation of nations

Land Wars, Armies, and Battles

Troop Building

Suggestions on how to build armies, and their quality

Regimental System

Discussion on bridging the gap between EU and HoI in terms of military control and detail.

Regular and Irregular Armies

Suggestions on how to handle two different army, types, regular- being better trained, irregular- being illtrained

More than One Unit Type

A request and discussion concerning the request for more unit sprites

Decisive Battles

Discussion on how decisive and large victories should effect the outcome of war, and warscore for peace proposals

Seige s

A request for a revamp on the seige system for realism's sake

Combat Clarity

Requests for in game information and in-log information concenring why battles went the way they did

Battle System

Discussion concerning a more indepth and interactive battle system

Army Composition

Further discussion on the composition of armies

Navy and the Sea

Raiders and Privateers

Discussion on pirates and their effects

On Sea Zones and Navies

Opinions concerning hiring navies, types of navies and the size of sea zones

Naval Range

Concerning the range of AI run navies and the new graphics engine in relation to navies

Colonies, Explorers, Discoveries and the Unknown

Permanent Terra Incognita?

Should EU III have PTI? This is the discussion on that topic.

Explores and Colonies

Suggestion on the randomness and usefullness of explorers as events

Exploration

A similar suggestion, but with a great deal more discussion concerning the historical acceptance of such a plan

Colonial Growth

An alternative to the EU 2 style colonial growth

Victory Conditions, Scenarios, and Tutorials

Battle Scenarios

Discussion on HoI2-esque "battle" scenarios

Victory Conditions

Concerning Victory Points and whether they should be included in EU III.

Tutorials

Concerning the implimentation of a tutorial in EU III, and comparisons between the old EU 2 tutorial and the more indepth Diplomacy tutorial

Shorter Time Span?

The discussion on the announcment that EU III would run from 1453-late 18th century.

Scenarios

Discussion on which scenarios, if any, will be in EU III, and what years those scenarios will start in

AI and General Structure

AI Suggestions

Suggestions for restructuring the AI

History vs Choice

Should the game be historically rigid, or allow more ahistoric freedom? Here is the thread to answer that question

Mid-End game Stagnation

A suggestion to improve AI wars in the later years of the game

Rebels, Revolts and Civil War

Nomads

A suggestion and discussion on the topic of nomadic armies in Asia

Mobile Rebels

Discussion on the topic of rebels travelling from province to province and across national borders.

Drop Stability Concept

Suggestions on dropping Stability as a factor

Religion, Culture, etc.

Nationalism vs Religion

A Discussion on how much of an impact both of these factors should have on stability and revolt risks.

Civilizations Rise and Fall

Discussion on the progression and regression of civilizations over time.

Cultural Conversion

Thread on the conversion of cultures from one to another over long periods of time.

Culture and Religion

Further discussion on forced conversion and cultural change

More Religions

A list of new religions that could be added

Multiculturalism

Making multiple cultures/religions exist in one province

Religion

The thread on religion

Mod's, Events, etc.

Event Strings

Comments on universal events

Event Descriptions[indent]Discussion on the descriptions of events in EU III[/inept]
Event Scripting Proposals

Here you can propose commands and conditions that you are missing in event scripting language

Leaders, Government

Personalities and Leaders

Discussion of Johan's comments concerning Leadership and Personality

Government Types

The Discussion on government types and forms

Dynasty Potential

Discussion on dynasties in EU ala CK

Better Leadership Management

A request for a different leadership system

Research, Sliders, etc.
Research

General discussion about Research

Sliders

Discussion about the removal of sliders

~~~

If you have created a thread in the EU III forum, please post below, with a link, and a brief description of either A) your intent for the discussion of the thread, or B) the current discussion in the thread.

I will be going through the posts and collecting information, but anything you can provide me with would ease that task greatly.

Once again, thanks.

P.S. I will be updating, and reformatting this list in the coming days.

magdat · 20-02-2006, 18:58

I like this as well, but I was thinking perhaps make an additonal "idea layer". Now each link goes to a thread and with the number of threads being limited they'll grow pretty large.

I was thinking what if there was a seperate forum solely dedicated to closed single post threads. These single post threads would contain an idea that evolved/ was worked out after some discussion in the original thread as well as the link to that original thread (more than one single post thread could be extracted from the same original thread if there were more than one worked out idea). Or just make links to single posts in the original post itself.

The META-list would then contain lists to those closed single post thread with the link to the original thread in the single post. Alternatively you make the original threads a linked sub-category, with links to single post threads that derived from it listed under it.

I think this method would avoid having people browse ultra-long threads to see what ideas were posted in them. Drawback would be that the META-list would be longer (although being categorized that would be that THAT bad).

EXAMPLE (of the version without a seperate forum for close single post threads):

Trade and Economics

The Economic System
Discussion on the use of trade centers compared to trade routes, and the historic justification of both

Trade centers, routes, concessions and provinces

2nd single post link

3rd single post link

Taxes, Rebels, and Absolutism
A discussion on the use of 'tax sliders' to change the income system for EU III

Estonianzulu · 20-02-2006, 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by magdat

I like this as well, but I was thinking perhaps make an additonal "idea layer". Now each link goes to a thread and with the number of threads being limited they'll grow pretty large.

I was thinking what if there was a seperate forum solely dedicated to closed single post threads. These single post threads would contain an idea that evolved/ was worked out after some discussion in the original thread as well as the link to that original thread (more than one single post thread could be extracted from the same original thread if there were more than one worked out idea). The META-list would then contain lists to those closed single post thread with the link to the original thread in the single post. Alternatively you make the original threads a linked sub-category, with links to single post threads that derived from it listed under it.

I think this method would avoid having people browse ultra-long threads to see what ideas were posted in them. Drawback would be that the META-list would be longer (although being categorized that would be that THAT bad).

This is an interesting idea. However I do not know if Paradox would want to open up a subforum for finished ideas. If they did I would be happy to modify this list to include those, and help dig up what conclusions people have drawn. However, I imagine most ideas will not have final conclusions, and be argued from now till EU III comes out.

magdat · 20-02-2006, 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Estonianzulu

This is an interesting idea. However I do not know if Paradox would want to open up a subforum for finished ideas.

Me neither. MrT, you think such a seperate forum could be useful?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Estonianzulu

If they did I would be happy to modify this list to include those, and help dig up what conclusions people have drawn. However, I imagine most ideas will not have final conclusions, and be argued from now till EU III comes out.

Yes, but consensus (although nice) wouldn't be a requirement. The single post should contain the idea edited/completed/worked out/evolved by the original poster himself. If someone else in the same thread has a different good idea he can make a seperate closed single post. Problem is who decides what are good ideas?

MrT · 20-02-2006, 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by magdat

Me neither. MrT, you think such a seperate forum could be useful?

Not really -- or at least certainly not at present. This forum is intended for discussing the game Paradox is making, not as a think tank or repository of eveery possible idea under the sun. I know there's a frustration level that you're all experiencing at this point since you don't have many (any) details; but it won't be that long before you will have some more concrete stuff to tear to shreds...er...discuss.

ohnoitsalex · 24-03-2006, 13:30

Here is a proposal for a level-based road system in the game.

Shadow Knight · 05-04-2006, 02:54

For posterity and to find at a later date (maybe this should be added to the locked metathread?):

-April-
The 4th of April Design Diary
The 11th of April Design Diary
The 25th of April Design Diary

-May-
The 3rd of May Design Diary
The 10th of May Design Diary
The 17th of May Design Diary
The 31st of May Design Diary

-June-
The 8th of June Design Diary
The 15th of June Design Diary
The 21st of June Design Diary
The 28th of June Design Diary

-July-
N/A

-August-
The 9th of August Design Diary
The 11th of August screenshot
16th of August Design Diary
The 23rd of August Design Diary

-September-
Country Guide
The 13th of September Design Diary
The 27th of September Design Diary

-October-
The 11th of October Design Diary
The 18th of October Design Diary
The 25th of October Design Diary

-Novemeber-
The 8th of November Design Diary

smosquito · 22-07-2006, 06:10

God and King George be with you.

If I may offer an observation, don't screw up the music like in HOI II...

EU II did set such a high standard in that regard. It would be a shame to saddle a superlative game (as I am sure EUIII will be) with lacklustre or generic music.

20-02-2006, 14:50	#1
Estonianzulu The Hand of the King Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Tangled up in blue Posts: 2,387 Blog Entries: 1	EU III: The Discussion Metathread Hello, and welcome to the EU III Metathread. As you know, Paradox has announced the creation of the third Europa Universalis title, and it has created quiet the discussion. To make sure we are all on the same page, and to keep discussions coordinated and limited (rather than overwhelm the paradox server!) the Metathread has been created. Below you will find links to and descriptions of all the current topics in the EU III forum. Before posting a new thread, or asking a question concerning the game, please look over these threads. It is likely that someone else had the same question, or voiced the same concern. This is not to keep you from asking questions. On the contrary, if you have something you want to ask or discuss, please do. The Metathread just coordinates where you ask those questions. If you want to discuss something, please find the thread(s) in which it is currently being discussed and join there, rather than make a new thread. Please be specific in your questions or comments. Topics such as “religion” or “sea-zones” have been discussed, and will continue to be discussed. A specific topic inside more general ones, such as “Effects of religions on colonial growth” is far more helpful. If you do post a new thread, with a new specific topic, let me know. I’ll be sure to add it to the Metathread and post a general summary concerning the topic in question. This way, we can hopefully limit the number of threads out there, ease the burden on the developers, and coordinate our discussions. Thanks for all your help and patience, Estonianzulu. Stickies IRC Channel The Original Metathread Friendly reminder from our Mods Announcement from Mr.T General Requests and Discussion It's Official! Official announcement thread General Ideas General Ideas from a new member Thank You! Thanks to Paradox for giving us EU III! Poll Thread Mr.T's Poll Thread Mower's Thoughts A detailed list of suggestions Pictures and Concept Art Our first look at EU III Graphics, Requirements, etc. Techical Support On the minimum system requirements. NOTE: The minimum requirements have not yet been announced. Concerning 3d Graphics A request on the depth of the graphics for EU III The Map, Provinces, Tooltips and Scales Time and Distance A discussion on the time lag difference between sending orders and having them completed; as well as a discussion on the ingame reinactment of this. The Uber Map Thread All the questions, concerns and statements about the map itself, provinces, etc. They go here, no where else Cities/Localities Discussion on cities and local areas compared to a broader view of provinces as a whole Provence Improvements Discussion and suggestions on the ways to handle province improvements, both for in game fun and historical accuracy The Importance of Tooltips On the usefullness of tooltips, and how they should be included in EU III. Trade and Economics The Economic System Discussion on the use of trade centers compared to trade routes, and the historic justification of both Taxes, Rebels, and Absolutism A discussion on the use of 'tax sliders' to change the income system for EU III Center of Trade Discussion Further discussion on Trade Centers, and how to link the current EU2 system with something more indepth Trade Center Distribution Discussion on the allocation of provinces to centers of trade Money in EU III Suggestions on availability of investments using money in the early stages of the game Holisticgod's "essentials" Discussion on trade and finance changes, as well as naval options Economy Merchants Further discussion on CoT's and trade interaction Infaltion Done Right Discussion on the in game effects, causes and solutions to inflation Diplomacy, Treaties, Vassals Vassals Discussion on the historic and ingame power of vassals Claims, Treaties and Guarantees Claims in relation to peace treaties, and ownership, a more complicated alliance system and named treaties Personal Unions Discusion on how to handle two countries ruled by the same monarch (Poland-Lithuania, Spain-Austria) Diplomacy X3 Discussion on a more detailed diplomatic system and the ingame ramifications, as well as a diplomacy smart AI with monarch-specific traits Core and Claims "Imperial" vs "National" cores and claims War, Victory and Alliances Fallen Governments When rebels take a capital city leading to peace; discussion on changing this Colonies in Wartime A request to change how colonies are handled during a war Coalition Armies Discussion on allies merging armies when fighting a common enemy Capital Moving After a capital has been conquered, it cannot be annexed in EU2, this discussion is on changing that Annexations Suggestions on limiting the rapid growth and annexation of nations Land Wars, Armies, and Battles Troop Building Suggestions on how to build armies, and their quality Regimental System Discussion on bridging the gap between EU and HoI in terms of military control and detail. Regular and Irregular Armies Suggestions on how to handle two different army, types, regular- being better trained, irregular- being illtrained More than One Unit Type A request and discussion concerning the request for more unit sprites Decisive Battles Discussion on how decisive and large victories should effect the outcome of war, and warscore for peace proposals Seige s A request for a revamp on the seige system for realism's sake Combat Clarity Requests for in game information and in-log information concenring why battles went the way they did Battle System Discussion concerning a more indepth and interactive battle system Army Composition Further discussion on the composition of armies Navy and the Sea Raiders and Privateers Discussion on pirates and their effects On Sea Zones and Navies Opinions concerning hiring navies, types of navies and the size of sea zones Naval Range Concerning the range of AI run navies and the new graphics engine in relation to navies Colonies, Explorers, Discoveries and the Unknown Permanent Terra Incognita? Should EU III have PTI? This is the discussion on that topic. Explores and Colonies Suggestion on the randomness and usefullness of explorers as events Exploration A similar suggestion, but with a great deal more discussion concerning the historical acceptance of such a plan Colonial Growth An alternative to the EU 2 style colonial growth Victory Conditions, Scenarios, and Tutorials Battle Scenarios Discussion on HoI2-esque "battle" scenarios Victory Conditions Concerning Victory Points and whether they should be included in EU III. Tutorials Concerning the implimentation of a tutorial in EU III, and comparisons between the old EU 2 tutorial and the more indepth Diplomacy tutorial Shorter Time Span? The discussion on the announcment that EU III would run from 1453-late 18th century. Scenarios Discussion on which scenarios, if any, will be in EU III, and what years those scenarios will start in AI and General Structure AI Suggestions Suggestions for restructuring the AI History vs Choice Should the game be historically rigid, or allow more ahistoric freedom? Here is the thread to answer that question Mid-End game Stagnation A suggestion to improve AI wars in the later years of the game Rebels, Revolts and Civil War Nomads A suggestion and discussion on the topic of nomadic armies in Asia Mobile Rebels Discussion on the topic of rebels travelling from province to province and across national borders. Drop Stability Concept Suggestions on dropping Stability as a factor Religion, Culture, etc. Nationalism vs Religion A Discussion on how much of an impact both of these factors should have on stability and revolt risks. Civilizations Rise and Fall Discussion on the progression and regression of civilizations over time. Cultural Conversion Thread on the conversion of cultures from one to another over long periods of time. Culture and Religion Further discussion on forced conversion and cultural change More Religions A list of new religions that could be added Multiculturalism Making multiple cultures/religions exist in one province Religion The thread on religion Mod's, Events, etc. Event Strings Comments on universal events Event Descriptions[indent]Discussion on the descriptions of events in EU III[/inept] Event Scripting Proposals Here you can propose commands and conditions that you are missing in event scripting language Leaders, Government Personalities and Leaders Discussion of Johan's comments concerning Leadership and Personality Government Types The Discussion on government types and forms Dynasty Potential Discussion on dynasties in EU ala CK Better Leadership Management A request for a different leadership system Research, Sliders, etc. Research General discussion about Research Sliders Discussion about the removal of sliders ~~~ If you have created a thread in the EU III forum, please post below, with a link, and a brief description of either A) your intent for the discussion of the thread, or B) the current discussion in the thread. I will be going through the posts and collecting information, but anything you can provide me with would ease that task greatly. Once again, thanks. P.S. I will be updating, and reformatting this list in the coming days. __________________ LibrAARian of the EU1 LibrAARy and the EU1 LibrAARy updates "Et pour ce devez amer, prisier, loer et honorer touz ceux a qui Dieu donne grace d'eulx trouver en pluseurs bonnes journees d'armes pour la guerre..." Member; Ahistoric Association "The Footsteps of Illustrious Men"-USA; Victoria (AARland Choice Award X3) The Ink Well: Advertise your AAR's Use it, Love it --- I've been Glorified! and Canonized! Last edited by Estonianzulu; 20-02-2006 at 21:28.

20-02-2006, 18:58	#2
magdat People before principle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 1,175	I like this as well, but I was thinking perhaps make an additonal "idea layer". Now each link goes to a thread and with the number of threads being limited they'll grow pretty large. I was thinking what if there was a seperate forum solely dedicated to closed single post threads. These single post threads would contain an idea that evolved/ was worked out after some discussion in the original thread as well as the link to that original thread (more than one single post thread could be extracted from the same original thread if there were more than one worked out idea). Or just make links to single posts in the original post itself. The META-list would then contain lists to those closed single post thread with the link to the original thread in the single post. Alternatively you make the original threads a linked sub-category, with links to single post threads that derived from it listed under it. I think this method would avoid having people browse ultra-long threads to see what ideas were posted in them. Drawback would be that the META-list would be longer (although being categorized that would be that THAT bad). EXAMPLE (of the version without a seperate forum for close single post threads): Trade and Economics The Economic System Discussion on the use of trade centers compared to trade routes, and the historic justification of both Trade centers, routes, concessions and provinces 2nd single post link 3rd single post link Taxes, Rebels, and Absolutism A discussion on the use of 'tax sliders' to change the income system for EU III __________________ Voting is the legitimised depositing of opinions, which are not required to be supported by arguments. EU2 1.08b, AGCEEP 1.3.6 - CK 1.04b - Vicky 1.03c, VIP 0.4b Last edited by magdat; 20-02-2006 at 19:36.

05-04-2006, 02:54	#7
Shadow Knight Admiral of the Fleet Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: USA Posts: 1,967	For posterity and to find at a later date (maybe this should be added to the locked metathread?): -April- The 4th of April Design Diary The 11th of April Design Diary The 25th of April Design Diary -May- The 3rd of May Design Diary The 10th of May Design Diary The 17th of May Design Diary The 31st of May Design Diary -June- The 8th of June Design Diary The 15th of June Design Diary The 21st of June Design Diary The 28th of June Design Diary -July- N/A -August- The 9th of August Design Diary The 11th of August screenshot 16th of August Design Diary The 23rd of August Design Diary -September- Country Guide The 13th of September Design Diary The 27th of September Design Diary -October- The 11th of October Design Diary The 18th of October Design Diary The 25th of October Design Diary -Novemeber- The 8th of November Design Diary __________________ f.k.a. shdwknightx HOI:TGW HOI2: 1914 "When you have a hammer, all your problems begin to look like nails. However, when you don't have a hammer, you may begin to ignore anything that looks like a nail." Last edited by Shadow Knight; 08-11-2006 at 21:45.

24-03-2006, 13:30	#6
ohnoitsalex Sergeant Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 69	Here is a proposal for a level-based road system in the game.

22-07-2006, 06:10	#8
smosquito puissantpants Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: San Francisco Posts: 224	God and King George be with you. If I may offer an observation, don't screw up the music like in HOI II... EU II did set such a high standard in that regard. It would be a shame to saddle a superlative game (as I am sure EUIII will be) with lacklustre or generic music.