Suggestion: Make Alexandria a plain

Alexandre · 25-01-2006, 18:44

Shouldn't Alexandria be changed to plains from desert? It doesn't make sense that it is easier to build things in the deserts of western Arabia (Mecca and Medina) than in Alexandria.

Mr. T. is disinclined to edit province.csv, but is willing to accomodate us if there is significant support for my idea.

Alexandre

Byakhiam · 25-01-2006, 19:07

Erm, isn't the large region of land that is Alexandria province mostly desert?

Justinian_A · 25-01-2006, 19:11

I agree with Alexandre...a large trading hub like Alexandria should at least be able to build a large road network.

*Grosshaus* · 25-01-2006, 19:16

I support such a change

Riddermark · 25-01-2006, 19:17

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...dria_egypt.jpg

Its arguable thought because:

The city of Alexandria, in Egypt, was named after its founder, Alexander the Great, and as the seat of the Ptolemaic rulers of Egypt quickly became one of the greatest cities of the Hellenistic world — second only to Rome in size and wealth throughout much of antiquity. However, upon the founding of Cairo by Egypt's mediæval Islamic rulers its status as the country's capital was ended, and it fell into a long decline, which by the late Ottoman period had seen it reduced to little more than a small fishing village.

wikipedia

Riddermark · 25-01-2006, 19:42

Furthermore as Cairo is obviously the more important city - and we all know how currently the capital ALWAYS moves to alexandria.... Cairo should be made richer that Alexandria.

me thinks

Alexandre · 25-01-2006, 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Byakhiam

Erm, isn't the large region of land that is Alexandria province mostly desert?

What with the Nile, there is much more water than in Mecca or Medina.

I'm thinking more about how tied into the trading world Alexandria was. Since I think that's the reason that Mecca and Medina were made plains, I'm arguing that the same priviledge should be afforded Alexandria.

Alexandre

Alexandre · 25-01-2006, 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riddermark

However, upon the founding of Cairo by Egypt's mediæval Islamic rulers its status as the country's capital was ended, and it fell into a long decline, which by the late Ottoman period had seen it reduced to little more than a small fishing village.

If Johan hears you he'll tell you that CK isn't a simulation!

Your concerns about keeping Cairo as the Fatamid capital can easily be fixed by giving Alexandria to a vassal.

Alexandre

Riddermark · 25-01-2006, 19:47

while making it plain can we make it poorer

?

MrT · 25-01-2006, 19:52

Careful, or I'll move it to Iceland!

(sorry...inside joke that probably only a few people will understand unless they've been around here for a very long time or were involved in the original beta)

Riddermark · 25-01-2006, 19:58

no really. The article says it was in decline. The moslems had their capitals in Cairo. It's clear that Alexandria was poorer and continues to decline. Since we can't have the capitals where we want them right ? it always goes to the richest place.. so Cairo has to be richer?

MrT · 25-01-2006, 20:14

So you want those 2 values swapped?

(I believe Cairo is 6 and Alexandria is 15)

Riddermark · 25-01-2006, 20:54

well if thats the only way?
Or Maybe make Alexandria 10 (I dunno how much Rome is But alexandria should be less).. and Cairo 11 or more. or 9-12, 8-13 ?

(5+16=21 trying to keep the 21 balance thats why i suggested these ^ )

Alexandre · 25-01-2006, 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riddermark

well if thats the only way?
Or Maybe make Alexandria 10 (I dunno how much Rome is But alexandria should be less).. and Cairo 11 or more. or 9-12, 8-13 ?

(5+16=21 trying to keep the 21 balance thats why i suggested these ^ )

I don't want Alexandria much poorer than Cairo because that switch in capital didn't have to hold, but I'm O.K. with a 10/11 or 9/12 edge to Cairo.

Alexandre

CSK · 25-01-2006, 22:28

I am for 9/12 and Alexandria gets a plain.

Edit: Woot, 1100th post!

Riddermark · 25-01-2006, 22:35

Ok i third these with a 9/12 and plain.

Jinnai · 26-01-2006, 09:05

It's not clear it was poorer in 1066. It's only clear that over time it became poorer. Even as late as 1453 it was still a major CoT.

Gaute65 · 26-01-2006, 09:45

If Alexsandria become plain, the tech/ plague spread will increase. do we want that? Maybe we must reduce # off trade links?

Olaus Petrus · 26-01-2006, 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riddermark

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...dria_egypt.jpg

Its arguable thought because:

The city of Alexandria, in Egypt, was named after its founder, Alexander the Great, and as the seat of the Ptolemaic rulers of Egypt quickly became one of the greatest cities of the Hellenistic world — second only to Rome in size and wealth throughout much of antiquity. However, upon the founding of Cairo by Egypt's mediæval Islamic rulers its status as the country's capital was ended, and it fell into a long decline, which by the late Ottoman period had seen it reduced to little more than a small fishing village.

wikipedia

If we see what that quote, we see that actually it was declined in 19th century. It doesn't mean that Alexandria was declined in middle ages. It was one of the biggest tradecentres in Mediterranean area. If you read medieval texts all of them describe Alexandria as very rich town. Venetians and Genoese bought Indian (Red Sea traderoute) and African goods from Alexandria.

Jinnai · 26-01-2006, 10:46

If you want Cairo to still have a chance of being the capital, they should be the same. Capitals generally won't move unless the province is richer and in the same area. If they are the same, then it shouldn't move.

But really in this era, Cairo wasn't all that important, especially in 1066, except being the capital of the Fatimids.

View Poll Results: Read my post in #28 before voting please!
Make changes to province.csv now, and balance scenarios in 1.06 beta	16	47.06%
Wait until 1.06 beta to do everything at once.	13	38.24%
I'm MrT and will make whichever changes are the consensus	5	14.71%
Voters: 34. You may not vote on this poll

25-01-2006, 18:44	#1
Alexandre Gave Johan Walachia's Shield Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: London and New York Posts: 1,261	Suggestion: Make Alexandria a plain Shouldn't Alexandria be changed to plains from desert? It doesn't make sense that it is easier to build things in the deserts of western Arabia (Mecca and Medina) than in Alexandria. Mr. T. is disinclined to edit province.csv, but is willing to accomodate us if there is significant support for my idea. Alexandre

25-01-2006, 19:07	#2
Byakhiam Your Industrial Friend Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: London, UK Posts: 9,557	Erm, isn't the large region of land that is Alexandria province mostly desert? __________________ Engages Duracell-Rabbit Mode every Saturday Double post? Edit and Delete!

25-01-2006, 19:11	#3
Justinian_A Emperor of the East Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 1,205	I agree with Alexandre...a large trading hub like Alexandria should at least be able to build a large road network. __________________ "There is a Providence that protects idiots, drunkards, children and the United States of America." - Otto von Bismarck Crusader Kings Character Traits - Lustful, Generous, Proud, Suspicious, Lazy, Sceptical, Heretic, Flamboyant Schemer

25-01-2006, 19:16	#4
Grosshaus Minister of Peace for Europe Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 9,543	I support such a change __________________ Pity comes for free, but jealousy must be earned - Lauri Tähkä Hearts of Iron II beta AAR Guardian of Democracy

25-01-2006, 19:17	#5
Riddermark Evil Balkanite Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Bulgaria Posts: 2,179	http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...dria_egypt.jpg Its arguable thought because: The city of Alexandria, in Egypt, was named after its founder, Alexander the Great, and as the seat of the Ptolemaic rulers of Egypt quickly became one of the greatest cities of the Hellenistic world — second only to Rome in size and wealth throughout much of antiquity. However, upon the founding of Cairo by Egypt's mediæval Islamic rulers its status as the country's capital was ended, and it fell into a long decline, which by the late Ottoman period had seen it reduced to little more than a small fishing village. wikipedia __________________ The first and only Bulgarian to have bought EU3 Complete - based on a true story.

25-01-2006, 19:42	#6
Riddermark Evil Balkanite Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Bulgaria Posts: 2,179	Furthermore as Cairo is obviously the more important city - and we all know how currently the capital ALWAYS moves to alexandria.... Cairo should be made richer that Alexandria. me thinks __________________ The first and only Bulgarian to have bought EU3 Complete - based on a true story.

25-01-2006, 19:47	#9
Riddermark Evil Balkanite Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Bulgaria Posts: 2,179	while making it plain can we make it poorer ? __________________ The first and only Bulgarian to have bought EU3 Complete - based on a true story.

25-01-2006, 19:52	#10
MrT Script & Development Slave Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Out of exile Posts: 12,472	Careful, or I'll move it to Iceland! (sorry...inside joke that probably only a few people will understand unless they've been around here for a very long time or were involved in the original beta) __________________ If I use this colour text or this one then I'm "speaking" as a moderator. Ignore at your peril. Please take a moment to register your copy of EU3. "The [EU3] registration key is not a copy protection measure, tragically people will always crack your copy protection. Rather it is a paying customer support measure. Rather than have the support forum swamped by people who pirate our games, we can make sure that our paying customers get their support quicker. Similarly with bug reports, we want to improve the things our paying customers want not the pirates. Finally we put that little icon below your avatar so that we see your feedback (both good and bad) we know that these are the things that our paying customers like (or dislike) and can use this information for future projects." - King Winner of the TOEE POTY 2003

25-01-2006, 19:58	#11
Riddermark Evil Balkanite Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Bulgaria Posts: 2,179	no really. The article says it was in decline. The moslems had their capitals in Cairo. It's clear that Alexandria was poorer and continues to decline. Since we can't have the capitals where we want them right ? it always goes to the richest place.. so Cairo has to be richer? __________________ The first and only Bulgarian to have bought EU3 Complete - based on a true story.

25-01-2006, 20:14	#12
MrT Script & Development Slave Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Out of exile Posts: 12,472	So you want those 2 values swapped? (I believe Cairo is 6 and Alexandria is 15) __________________ If I use this colour text or this one then I'm "speaking" as a moderator. Ignore at your peril. Please take a moment to register your copy of EU3. "The [EU3] registration key is not a copy protection measure, tragically people will always crack your copy protection. Rather it is a paying customer support measure. Rather than have the support forum swamped by people who pirate our games, we can make sure that our paying customers get their support quicker. Similarly with bug reports, we want to improve the things our paying customers want not the pirates. Finally we put that little icon below your avatar so that we see your feedback (both good and bad) we know that these are the things that our paying customers like (or dislike) and can use this information for future projects." - King Winner of the TOEE POTY 2003

25-01-2006, 20:54	#13
Riddermark Evil Balkanite Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Bulgaria Posts: 2,179	well if thats the only way? Or Maybe make Alexandria 10 (I dunno how much Rome is But alexandria should be less).. and Cairo 11 or more. or 9-12, 8-13 ? (5+16=21 trying to keep the 21 balance thats why i suggested these ^ ) __________________ The first and only Bulgarian to have bought EU3 Complete - based on a true story.

25-01-2006, 22:28	#15
CSK Field Marshal Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Graz or Vienna, European Union. Posts: 3,867	I am for 9/12 and Alexandria gets a plain. Edit: Woot, 1100th post!

25-01-2006, 22:35	#16
Riddermark Evil Balkanite Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Bulgaria Posts: 2,179	Ok i third these with a 9/12 and plain. __________________ The first and only Bulgarian to have bought EU3 Complete - based on a true story.

26-01-2006, 09:05	#17
Jinnai Pure Evil Genius Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: El Hazard Posts: 10,107	It's not clear it was poorer in 1066. It's only clear that over time it became poorer. Even as late as 1453 it was still a major CoT. __________________ Best WW Death Ever as Eliria the Very Mean Girl in WWLite XXXII: My Super Sweet Sixteen CK: DV Mod - Horde & Timurid Empire Mod v2.01 CK: DV Mod (Computable with DVIP) - Automated Courtier Education Events v3.03.01 Come Help me with my Dragon Quest Research Project

26-01-2006, 09:45	#18
Gaute65 Newbie Join Date: May 2001 Location: Mombot Road 103, Norway Posts: 3,657	If Alexsandria become plain, the tech/ plague spread will increase. do we want that? Maybe we must reduce # off trade links? __________________ How to run HOI3 under Linux How to run EU3 under Linux Paradox Linux User Group Kubuntu 9.10 Age, catamite- fac mihi hunc diem felicissimum.

26-01-2006, 10:46	#20
Jinnai Pure Evil Genius Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: El Hazard Posts: 10,107	If you want Cairo to still have a chance of being the capital, they should be the same. Capitals generally won't move unless the province is richer and in the same area. If they are the same, then it shouldn't move. But really in this era, Cairo wasn't all that important, especially in 1066, except being the capital of the Fatimids. __________________ Best WW Death Ever as Eliria the Very Mean Girl in WWLite XXXII: My Super Sweet Sixteen CK: DV Mod - Horde & Timurid Empire Mod v2.01 CK: DV Mod (Computable with DVIP) - Automated Courtier Education Events v3.03.01 Come Help me with my Dragon Quest Research Project