EEP Byzantium Mod Annex

[driftwood]

I'm diploannexing this thread! I don't want to clutter up the main EEP Byzantium Mod thread with all my half-baked, industrial grade event ideas, which are sure to provoke much opposition and fruitless debate, although I'm not sure why (just sure it will happen).

Tomorrow I will write up more nasty civil/religious strife events. I would love to know what the official/beta Union events look like (and Varna too). Event #9 needs the most help, IMHO. And without further ado ...

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Part I - The Fight for Survial
================================================== =================

Core provinces are Thrace, Macedonia, Rumelia, Bulgaria, Hellas, Morea, Smyrna, Ionia, Corfu. The goal for the Empire is to win back enough land to make survival feasible - that means the empire established by Michael VIII Paleologus.

1. Pretender to the Throne (occurs in 1421, if Byzantium and Ottomans aren't at war):

In 1421, the Ottoman Sultan, Mehmed I, died. His son, Murad II, ascended the throne. However, the Byzantines were holding Mehmed's brother, Mustafa, prisoner on the island of Lemnos. Hoping for the best, and urged on by his son (John VIII), Manuel II released this pretender to the throne, creating civil war in the Ottoman Empire. The Venetians took the opportunity to attack the Ottoman navy.

1.A. Release Mustafa and hope for the best.
--- -1 Stab
--- causes war with Ottoman Empire
--- causes Macedonia to go over to rebels
--- rebel army of 10/10/0 appears in Anatolia
--- Venice gets 36 month CB against Ottoman Empire
1.B. Keep Mustafa, just in case
--- +1 stab
--- +25 relations with Ottomans
1.C. Execute Mustafa
--- +1 stab
--- +100D (Murad is happy to be rid of him)
--- +125 relations with Ottomans

1.5 Notification event for the Ottomans (they should know why there is a revolt, I guess)

2. Treaty of 1424 (triggered if #1 occurs, year is 1424, war's still going):

Murad rapidly put down the revolt, and angrily attacked Byzantium. Manuel released another pretender, also named Mustafa, who was the brother of Murad, but this one fared no better. In 1423 the Turks invaded Morea, smashing through the Hexamilium (6 mile wall) that Manuel II had built across the Isthmus of Corinth for protection in 1414. They also pressed Thessalonica, still a Byzantine city, so hard that the governor turned it over to the Venetians and wished them better luck. By 1424, with no help forthcoming, the Byzantines sadly accepted vassalage to the Turks. Venice held onto Thessalonica until 1430.

2.A. Accept the treaty.
--- Byzantium becomes vassal of Ottoman Empire
--- +1 stab
--- Venice gains CB shield on Macedonia for 6 years.
2.B. Continue the fight!
--- New army of 5000 men in Thrace (patriotic young men join up)
--- Venice gains CB shield on Macedonia for 6 years.

3. The Succession of Athens (triggered if Duchy of Athens still exists, year is 1435, event is for Duchy of Athens)

In 1435, the Duke of Athens died without an heir. His wife was Greek, and the future Constantine XI, expanding Byzantine holdings from his Despotate in Morea, seemed to have convinced her to cede it to Byzantium. However her nobles were Latins (Tuscans, I would assume?), and forced her to change her plans.

3.A. Don't give the Duchy to the schismatic Greeks
--- Aristocracy +1
--- Stab -1 (internal strife)
--- Relations with Tuscany +100
--- Relations with Byzantium -50
3.B. Return Hellas to its rightful owner
--- Triggers Inheritance of Athens event
--- Hellas will become Byzantine

4. The Inheritance of Athens (triggered by event #3)

The Duchess of Athens has ceded her fief to the Empire of Byzantium! It was a vassal of Tuscany, so annexing it outright would damage relations with the Italians at a time when the Turks are threatening. However, it would add critical territory, manpower, and resources in preperation for future struggles.

4.A. Annex Hellas
--- Stab +1
--- -100 relations with Tuscany, Milan, Modena, Papal States
4.B. Rule Hellas as a vassal
--- Stab +1
--- +100D (Athenian nobles pay to see this outcome occur)
--- Centralization -1
4.C. Give Hellas to Tuscany in exchange for support
--- Stab -1 (very unpopular decision at home)
--- +200D (Tuscany is willing to offer compensation)
--- +100 relations with Tuscany, Milan, Modena, Papal States

5. Fool me once (triggered in 1451 if Byzantium is vassal or is ceding military access to Ottoman Empire, is an Ottoman event):

Despite his prior behavior, Constantine XI actually held another royal Ottoman prince, Orhan, in exchange for modest payments from the Sultan (3000 aspers, however much that is). In 1451, desperate for more money, the ever-bold Constantine requested an increase in the payments. Murad II had just died and his 19 year old son, Mehmed II, risen to the throne. Mehmed seized on the opportunity to cancel his treaty with Byzantium. The final reckoning was drawing near.

5.A. Cancel the treaty
--- Ottoman Empire cancels all treaties with Byzantium
--- +3 stab (or whatever the stab penalty is for cancelling a vassalization)
--- New army of 10,000 infantry awaits in Anatolia
--- Relations with Byzantium -100
5.B. Grant the extra payments
--- -100D
--- -1 stab (what type of Ghazi empire subsidizes feable nemeses?)
--- +100 relations with Byzantium
--- Revolt in Anatolia

6. The Hexamilium (triggered sometime between 1427 and 1445, since it was rebuilt by Constantine after he became Despot of Morea in 1427 and destroyed by the Turks again in 1446):

The Hexamilium, built by Manuel II in 1414, was a famous 6 mile line of fortifications across the Isthmus of Corinth that was meant to protect the Morea like a set of city walls. Like the Great Wall of China or Hadrian's Wall, it was a big lump of stone that captured the imagination of men, but failed rather badly to stop them from passing through it. The Turks easily penetrated it in 1423 and again in 1446, after the future Constantine XI had rebuilt it. Still, it added a great deal of security to the Morea.

6.A. Rebuild it.
--- +1 fortification in Morea
--- -1 Offensive doctrine
--- -75D
6.B. It's a waste of time and money
--- +1 Offensive doctrine
--- Revolt risk +2 in Morea for 1 year (the people want their security blanket)

6.5 As an aside to the Varna people, the population in Morea should be cut in half in 1446 to reflect Murad's depredations there in retaliation to the Varna effort.

7. It's not the size of the cannon - it's who owns it! (triggered in 1452):

Artillery had become increasingly useful over the previous 150 years, and were now beginning to have a major impact on sieges. In 1452, a Hungarian engineer named Urban approached Constantine XI with a proposal for a major artillery development program. The cash-strapped emperor could not afford to finance it, and instead Urban went to Mehmed II. Mehmed was delighted to finance Urban, who eventually created a cannon with a 27 foot barrel that shot 1200 pound balls.

7.a. Hire Urban
--- -100D
--- -1 Offensive doctrine
--- +1 Innovativeness
--- +10 cannon in Thrace
7.b. We can't afford him
--- +1 Offensive doctrine
--- -1 Innovativeness

7.5 Same event, offered to Ottomans, with artillery appearing in Macedonia

8. The Fall of Constantinople (triggered on or after 1453, if the Turks control Thrace and not Morea, and are at war with the Byzantines):

In 1453, Mehmed II the Conqueror took Constantinople and reconsecrated it as his capital. Content for the moment with putting his newly prestigious house in order, he left the shattered Byzantines alone in the Morea, as his vassals. The Despotate of Morea survived until he conquered it in 1458.

8.a. Move capital to Mistra in the Morea
--- Capital moves to Mistra
--- Peace with the Ottoman Empire
--- Byzantium becomes vassal of Ottoman Empire
--- Byzantium gives Thrace to Ottoman Empire
--- Stab -3
--- Centralization -2 (government apparatus is destroyed)
--- Constantine XI is dead
--- -100 relations with Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia, Venice, Genoa, Hungary, Wallachia, Moldavia
--- Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia, Venice, Genoa, Hungary, Wallachia, Moldavia gain 5 year CB on Turkey
8.b. We will never yield!
--- New army of 10/5/0 in Morea
--- Stab +1
--- Aristocracy +1
--- Serfdom -1
--- Land +1
--- Offensive doctrine +1
--- -50D
--- +100 relations with Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia, Venice, Genoa, Hungary, Wallachia, Moldavia
--- Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia, Venice, Genoa, Hungary, Wallachia, Moldavia gain 5 year CB on Turkey

9. The Expulsion of the Turks from Europe (if the Turks do not control any European provinces besides Dobrudja):

The key turning point in the survival of Byzantium was when they retook Macedonia, driving the Turks back to their former capital of Bursa in Anatolia. Though Byzantium remained very weak, the danger from the Ottomans was no longer so pressing, and though they retained footholds in Europe, their momentum had clearly been blunted.

9.a. Expel the Turks!
--- Offensive doctrine +1
--- Manpower increases
--- Stab +1
--- Innovation -1 (not very accepting of the Turks)
--- Centralization +1
--- Aristocracy +1
--- +200D (plunder)
--- -3 stab for Turks
--- Ottoman Empire's capital moves to Bursa
--- Fortification +1 in Bursa
9.b. Leave them be
--- Defensive doctrine +1
--- Stab -1
--- Innovation +1
--- +100D (Turkish payoff)
--- +400 invested in land and naval tech (learning from the Turks)
--- New Byzantine army of 5/5/0 in Macedonia (Turkish warriors who enter Byzantine service)

10. The Reestablishment of the Akritai (triggered by #9):

The Akritas was a petty border soldier-baron during the heyday of Byzantium and its subsequent decline. Like his Muslim counterpart, the Ghazi, with whom he often had more in common than his countrymen, he was largely independent and spent most of his time raiding across the border. While the akritai did not cost much to maintain, they were also difficult to control, and largely useless in foreign expeditions. They were used because they were very effective and because the central government could no longer afford a large enough standing, professional army. They also provided safe havens for heretics and other nonconformists.

10.a. Reestablish them
--- Centralization -2
--- Quality +1
--- Land +1
--- Offensive doctrine +1
--- Serfdom -1
--- Aristocracy +1
--- Increased chance of heresy, decreased chance of conversion success.
10.b. We can do without
--- Centralization +1
--- Quality -1
--- Serfdom +1
--- Land +1

================================================== =================
II. The Resurgence of Byzantium
================================================== =================

11. The Byzantine Renaissance (triggered if Byzantium possesses Thrace, Hellas, Morea, Smyrna, and Macedonia)

Having weathered the Ottoman storm, the Byzantines slowly began to win back ground. They eventually succeeded in retaking the Aegean seaboard, restoring the Empire to the small but stable condition it was in during the days of Michael VIII Paleologus in the mid-13th century. Finally having some breathing room, the emperors were able to take stock of their situation and make much needed reforms.

11.a. Begin the Byzantine Renaissance
--- Dobrudja, Serbia, Kossovo, Ragusa, Albania, Anatolia, Karamon, Trabzon, Konya, Antalya, Tauras, Angora, Adana, Sivas, Armenia, Crete, Cyprus, Rhodes become core provinces
--- Centralization +2
--- +1 tax value in Thrace, Hellas, Morea, Smyrna, Macedonia
--- +50 relations with Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia, Albania, Ragusa, Hungary, Moldavia, Wallachia, Muscovy, Novgorod, Tver, Pskov, Sudzal, Ryazan, Kazan
--- New army of 10/10/0 in Thrace

12. The Restoration of Hagia Sophia (triggered by #11)

Hagia Sophia, or the Church of Holy Wisdom, was built by the Emperor Justinian I in the mid-6th century, and stood as the largest and most impressive church built until St. Peter's Basilica was inspired by it in the Renaissance. However, the millenium had not been good to it, and the Emperors were, more often than not, too poor to maintain it properly. The newly prosperous nobles, private citizens, and Church have pledged donations. Now the time has come to make use of the cultural revival of the 14th century and the Byzantine resurgence of the 15th century.

12.a. Restore Hagia Sophia
--- -500D
--- Fine Arts academy in Thrace
--- +1 Innovation
--- +200 invested in Infrastructure
--- +50 relations with Papal States, Modena, Tuscany, Milan, Mantua, Venice (cultural exchanges)
--- -1 stab (strain of raising the money)
12.b. No need for relics of the past
--- +200D (pocket the donations)
--- -1 Innovation
--- +200 invested in Land, Naval tech

13. Establish the Themata (triggered by #11)

In roughly 660, the Emperor Constans II had radically reorganized the Empire to deal with the fact that invaders had overrun much of it, what remained was constantly under military threat, and that the government could not afford a large enough standing army to protect all of it and still launch offensives. He thus replaced the traditional Roman province with a new theme, whose leader (strategos) held both civil and military power. Soldiers were enrolled in each theme, and given a grant of land from which to feed and equip himself, plus a continued but reduced salary of gold. The grants were large enough for infantry to support themselves and their families, while cavalry and sailors could afford to hire tenant farmers to work the land. Upon death, the soldier's heir was enrolled in his place, and each year the soldiers were required to muster for spring training, possibly followed by offensive campaigns. They were always on call for defensive duties, and unlike mercenaries, they would fight very fiercely to protect their land. The system worked very well, effectively increasing the quality and quantity of the military, raising the prosperity of the countryside by creating a class of small freeholding farmers, and reducing government expenses. The themata were expanded as more territory was conquered, and it was the neglect and breakdown of the thematic system that led to the decline of Byzantium from the 11th century on.

13.a. We need them
--- Centralization -1
--- Serfdom -3
--- Quality -1
--- The Reclaimed Land effect in Thrace, Macedonia, Hellas, Morea, Smyrna
--- Aristocracy -2
--- Innovativeness -1 (this was a conservative group in society)
13.b. We've been doing fine without them
--- Centralization +2

--- Aristocracy +1

14. Revolt of the Themata (occurs 25-50 years after #13):

The good thing about the themata is that they provided a large, cheap, effective military. That was the problem, too, as more than one Emperor found out at the wrong end of a sword. A large army that could appear next to capital on short notice is especially devastating when they are also the ones supposed to put down revolts.

14.a. The Themata are revolting!
--- Stab -3
--- Revolt risk +6
--- 20/10/0 rebel army in Thrace

15. Creation of the Tagmata (occurs 10-40 years after #14):

Rattled by the danger posed by the Themata, the Emperors created the Tagmata, or Regiments. Each tagma was a small, elite armed force that drew income from land in a theme, like other soldiers, but was permanently on duty in the Emperor's presence. They were heavily geared towards offensive operations, making them a strong core for foreign expeditions. The themata were also broken into smaller units, to reduce the size of potential revolts.

15.a Establish the Tagmata
--- Stab +1
--- Quality +1
--- Offensive doctrine +2
--- Aristocracy +2
--- Serfdom +1
--- Manpower -1 in Thrace, Macedonia, Hellas, Morea, and Smyrna
15.b We don't need them
--- Stab -1
--- Serfdom -1

16. Rise of the Magnates (occurs 20-50 years after #13, and again after #15):

The system of small freeholding farmers was always open to exploitation by the rich, and even a typical officer's position in the army could bring nice profits from farming tenants. Consequently families began amassing large holdings of land in Anatolia and Thrace, which they then used to buy out soldiers with small plots, and so on. These families put their own interests ahead of that of the Empire or the peasantry, but had a strong following and were an effective military force.

16.a. The magnates are our friends. Leave them be.
--- Stab +1
--- Aristocracy +2
--- Serfdom +2
--- Centralization -1
--- Quality +1
16.b. These magnates will cause us problems down the road! Break up their holdings.
--- Stab -3
--- Aristocracy -2
--- Serfdom -2
--- Centralization +2
--- Revolt risk +3

17. The Hesychast Doctrine (triggered 25-75 years after #11):

The Byzantines were always fond of religious fights, spending centuries trying to hammer out the exact interrelationships between the components of the Trinity, before moving on to the desirability of icons, back to the components of the Trinity, and so on. Of course, these debates usually became foils for political struggles of a secular nature after a couple of years. One such struggle was sparked by the practice of the monks at Mt. Athos, who would hold their breath and meditate, sometimes being blessed by a vision of the light of God. The Patriarch interpreted this to be a heretical belief in an uncreated light around God, or a 4th component of the Trinity. More generally, it reflected a Byzantine tendency towards mysticism over intellectualism. Though settled in the 14th century, the debate was tied up in that over the Union with the Catholic Church, and periodically burst into contention again.

17.a. Endorse the Hesychasts.
--- Innovativeness -2
--- Stab +1
--- -50 relations with Papal States
--- 1 random revolt
17.b. Let everyone think what they please
--- Serfdom -1
--- Stab -2 (this approach was very unpopular with the people)
17.c. Persecute the Hesychasts
--- Centralization +1
--- Innovativeness +1
--- Stab -1
--- Revolt risk +4
--- +50 relations with Papal States

18. Resettle Anatolia (triggered if Byzantium controls Anatolia, Karamon, Konya, Antalya, Tauras, Angora, Adana).

During the Ottoman invasion of Europe, it was often said that there were more Turks in Europe than in Asia. Whether that was true or not, it became clear after all of Anatolia was conquered that the remaining Turks could either be assimilated, eliminated, or ignored.

18.a. Resettle the urban proletariat of Constantinople in Asia Minor
--- Stab -2
--- Revolt risk +4
--- -50% population in Constantinople
--- +1 centralization
--- +1 serfdom
--- Culture changed to Greek in Anatolia, Karamon, Trabzon, Konya, Antalya, Tauras, Angora, Adana
18.b. Accept the Turks as equal subjects of the Basileus
--- Stab -4
--- Revolt risk +6
--- +1 centralization
--- -1 serfdom
--- Turkish added as state culture
--- Reclaimed land effect in Anatolia, Karamon, Trabzon, Konya, Antalya, Tauras, Angora, Adana
--- -100 relations with all the Christian powers you care to list
18.c. The situation is fine, leave them be.
--- -2 centralization (poor control over Asia Minor)
--- Stab -2
--- Serfdom -2
--- Innovativeness +1

================================================== =================
III. Watch out, world: Rome is back, and it's pissed off!!!
================================================== =================

19. Remind Europe that you are the legitimate Emperor of the Romans (triggered if Byzantium controls Dobrudja, Rumelia, Bulgaria, Kossovo, Dalmatia, Ragusa, Albania, Trabzon, Anatolia, Karamon, Trabzon, Konya, Antalya, Tauras, Angora, Adana, Sivas, Armenia):

The Empire has reached its greatest extent since the heady days of Basil II the Bulgar-Slayer in the year 1025. The once unstoppable Turks have been utterly crushed. The Empire is militarily and culturally flourishing. It is now time to decide what its destiny shall be.

Only later Europeans used the term "Byzantine". Even the peasants in Byzantium knew, still in the 19th century long after the Empire had fallen, that they were Romaoi - Romans. While some of the states of Western and Central Europe had been legimately delegated ruling power by the emperors in Constantinople, no emperor had ever yielded on the point that they retained universal sovereignty over the entire Roman Imperium. Only an unfortunate fate had prevented them from restoring their universal authority.

On the other hand, the last real Roman offensive to reclaim land in the West had been in the 6th century, during the reconquests of Justinian I. Other emperors since then had sought to forge a new destiny in the friendly Orthodox lands of the Balkans and among the Rus. The wayward West Romans and their Germanic conquerors have grown uncultured and follow an incorrect version of Christianity. Perhaps it is time to leave them to their squabbling and follow a new path.

19.a. Begin the reconquest of the Imperium
--- Centralization +1
--- Offensive doctrine +1
--- Quality +1
--- New army of 50/25/30 in Thrace
--- New fleet of 20/20/10 in Thrace
--- Croatia, Bosnia, Istria, Veneto, Mantua, Lombardia, Liguria, Piemonte, Siena, Emilia, Firenze, Romagna, Marche, Napoli, Apulia, Sardinia, Corsica, Malta, the Baleares, Gibraltar, Granada, Murcia, Valencia, Tunisia, Tripolitania, Cyrenaica, Quattara, Alexandria, Cataract, Delta, Egypt, Nile, Sinai, Judea, Samaria, Lebanon, Syria, Aleppo, Nuyssaybin, Kurdistan, Georgia become core provinces
--- -100 relations with more or less all those people
19.b. Follow the path of your cultural imperium
--- Centralization +1
--- Innovativeness +1
--- Plutocracy +1
--- +1000 invested in trade
--- +1000 invested in infrastructure
--- A swath through Hungary and Russia would become core provinces, I guess.
--- +100 relations with a bunch of those people (they look up to you!)

driftwood

[Vandelay]

I really like the early Events dealing with Ottomans and Byzantines up to the conquest of Constantinople in 1453 (especially the "Move to Mistra").

One comment here though: For the Byzantines NOT hiring Urban should be the first option in the Event as this is the historical option.

The rest is alternative history difficult to comment. A general comment is that despite many of the Balkan states being Orthodox I doubt they would consider a resurgent Byzantium more positively than they did the Ottomans IRL.

As an aside:
How about an option for reestablishing the Varangian Guard

/Vandelay

[Jools]

I admire you for your productivity and I must tell you that these events look great.

But as emir said 'more negative ones please!'

[Lambert Simnel]

Nice events. I have only read up to 1453. One comment, the Expel the turks event also needs to be contingent on the Turks owning the new capital site in Asia.

Another option for event1(Lambert's 1st law: More choices = More fun)

1.D.Send Mustafa with a force of mercenaries.
--- -1 Stab
--- -100D
--- causes war with Ottoman Empire
--- causes Macedonia to go over to rebels
--- rebel army of 20/20/0 appears in Anatolia
--- Venice gets 36 month CB against Ottoman Empire
--- Genoa gets 36 month CB against Ottoman Empire (possibly this could also be in the historic choice. Assume that in our timeline Genoa didn't use the CB)

[Idiotboy]

Actually I don´t think the events are that much positive until the last ones. Most events have both positive and negative effects. I think thats what the events should be since most random effects are negative.

Oh and Great work.

[Constantine XI]

Driftwood, do you have these coded?? If you do PLEASE PLEASE send them to me!!! I would love to be the beta tester for Byzantium events.

bethel608@charter.net

[driftwood]

Thanks everyone who said something positive, and I don't blame you for anyone who said something negative. Ok, we can safely yank #9 (Expulsion of the Turks from Europe), or rework it into a smaller-scale celebration of saving Europe from the Turkish threat.

Lambert, I like the extra option. Yes, more choices would make many of these events more fun! I tried to make it clear up front that the events grew more unbalanced and clearly positive the further into the speculative future you went. If someone makes that 100 year series of civil wars, we could take care of that (hint, hint).

A few ideas I forgot to put in:

Maybe some hothead in Constantinople thinks it would be a good idea to press claims for restitution from the 4th Crusade on Venice. Hehe. If the AI takes the 1st choice 85% of the time, it will just cause a destructive war between Venice and Byzantium. See below.

Also, it would be neat to have events where Byzantium could decide to form a strategic axis with either Hungary (if they've reunited with the Catholic Church) or Russia (if they're rejected the Union).

Someone mentioned reestablishing the Varangians. That would be fine as a random event (which is what I would like to turn the Rise of the Magnates event into, tied to Aristocracy > 4 and Centralization < 9 DP settings), since they were just another tagma, albeit one composed of foreign mercenaries. But that reminds me of some more historical army names.

The Tagmata: Hicanti, Watch, Excubitors, Scholae, Walls, Numera.

The Themata (reduced list): Optimates, Opsician, Thracesians, Anatolics, Seleucia, Cappadocia, Charsianum, Armeniacs, Chaldia, Paphlagonia, Bucellarians, Climata, Thrace, Macedonia, Thessalonica, Hellas, Peloponnesus, Cephalonia, Dyrrachium.

Plus the naval theme of Cibyrrhaeots.

Ok, I'm going to try and code some historical events now.

20. The Venetian Affair

The 4th Crusade was supposed to be the one that redeemed the image of the crusader movement. It seemed to be going well until the assembled army, about half the expected size, arrived in Venice to embark for infidel lands. The Venetians were not impressed by the half the expected payment they received, and suggested the Crusaders recoup expenses by helping the Venetians clear up some "territorial disputes" in the ports of Dalmatia.

As long as there was a Western army marauding the Balkans, there was the son of aa pretender to the Byzantine throne around to offer them exorbitant sums to place his blind father back on the throne in place of another pretender, his uncle. The Crusaders easily place young Alexius IV on the throne, but he was in no position to make the full promised payments, 75% of which was to have ended in Venetian pockets. When the now unpopular Alexius IV was overthrown by Alexius V, the Crusaders eventually decided to just sack Constantinople and carve up the Empire.

Although Byzantium had suffered many blows since 1071, this was the worst, and one from which it never made a full recovery. Until now, that is. With Byzantium restored, Court opinion is heavily in favor of demanding restitution from the Venetians. To do so might right an injustice, but could also provoke equally damaging attacks and has little chance of success. But if the Empire could pull it off, the rewards in land and prestige would be great ...

20.a. Present the Venetian Senate with demands for restitution of 2000 D
--- -100 relations with Venice, Genoa, Papal States, Austria, France, Spain, et al.
--- Gives Venice CB against Byzantium for 2 years
--- +2 badboy points
--- Triggers The Venetian Response
--- -1 stab (wild demands coming out of nowhere)
20.b. Why stir up trouble?
--- +100D (the Venetians are willing to make a minor payment to prevent trouble)
--- -2 stab (the government looks weak)

21. The Venetian Response

21.a. Are you insane?
--- Byzantium gains CB on Venice for 10 years
--- -50 relations with Byzantium
--- New navy of 5/0/5 in Venice (preparing for war)
21.b. Their demands are fair
--- If held, Ionia and Corfu to Byzantium
--- If not, contents of treasury + 1 loan to Byzantium
--- -3 stab
--- +200 relations with Byzantium

driftwood

[Idiotboy]

Hmm, nice but you should really make that stab hit harder it must hurt. Make it 4 or 5 and if make the venetians actions a bit harsher. I think there would have benn 0% of them giving in to that kind of demands 200 years after the sack (they are merchants after all) so I think it should be more of extremely bad response vs slightly bad response

[driftwood]

Originally posted by Idiotboy
Hmm, nice but you should really make that stab hit harder it must hurt. Make it 4 or 5 and if make the venetians actions a bit harsher. I think there would have benn 0% of them giving in to that kind of demands 200 years after the sack (they are merchants after all) so I think it should be more of extremely bad response vs slightly bad response

Good idea. There should be trade consequences, too, but I'm leaving all the trade stuff aside until we see if the Thrace CoT will be making an appearance in 1.02. Then we could do a whole series of Wresting Trade back from the Italians events.

driftwood

[Shadowstrike]

Are some of htese actions even possible under the current event system? Oh and more negative ones please. Maybe Rome should also have a CB shield added on the third part, or will Byzentium always have a CB on Rome?

[Constantine XI]

Naa. Byzantium shouldn't always have a CB on Rome... but they should get one through an event.

[Idiotboy]

So people shall we aim for our events in the 1.03 or something. We need a goal.

[driftwood]

Ok, so here's a problem. I've coded my first 2 events, and they work fine (although I have to trigger sub-events to get the effects for the Venetians and Ottomans), except that there's no way to declare war or force a peace!

There's certain degree of difficulty in simulating a Treaty of 1424 event when you can give Byzantium as a vassal to Turkey but can't end the war!

<sigh> Does anyone know if at least the war command will be working in 1.02?

driftwood

[Havard]

Originally posted by driftwood
<sigh> Does anyone know if at least the war command will be working in 1.02?

I believe it will. No peace-command though...

[Idiotboy]

Why is that? Have they not bothered to do it or is it not possible with the current code?

[Havard]

Originally posted by Idiotboy
Why is that? Have they not bothered to do it or is it not possible with the current code?

Don't know. It's on my event-code wish-list

[Crazy_Ivan80]

All these events... I want the game!!

I have another suggestion to make: If Byzantium survives should there be an evolution towards a nation-state of more modern allure during the 16th-17th centuries?
Most other nations went (with varying success) through this process during this period.

[driftwood]

I have another suggestion to make: If Byzantium survives should there be an evolution towards a nation-state of more modern allure during the 16th-17th centuries?
Most other nations went (with varying success) through this process during this period.

I'm trying to start a discussion on this kind of topic in the main EEP Byzantium thread. But, anyway, I think the smaller they are, the more likely it is. If they've succeeded in reconquering more than part of the Balkans and Anatolia, it's going to be pretty hard to pull off a nation-state (just look at Austria and the Ottoman Empire, the two closest analogues to that situation).

But it would be fun to model.

driftwood

[Constantine XI]

www.avidgamers.com/byzeep

apply and let me send you your password. we can keep things a little more organized here.

[David Comnenus]

I think that number 5 needs an event w/Byzantium. The Byzantines should get a CB against Venice if their 20/21 demands aren't met. While we're at it, can we concentrate on one thread? Byzantium makes a good single thread, and splitting it may cause trouble.