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25-08-2004, 15:38
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#1 | ||
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Vile treacherous Judas
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Beautiful Trier
Posts: 3,050
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Hussite Wars
In this thread, an overhaul of the Hussite Wars will be proposed and discussed. This is gonna be based largely on the great ideas of Vaclav Adam. I'll just quote him:
Quote:
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Today you are frying a goose, but from the ashes a swan will rise. Jan Hus (Hus means goose in Czech) before his execution at the stake AGCEEP High Council member |
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25-08-2004, 16:06
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#2 |
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Vile treacherous Judas
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Beautiful Trier
Posts: 3,050
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Rather than assigning a tag to "Catholic Bohemia" (which seems like a rather obscure country), I think that the Hussites should be assigned a tag. After all, Sigismund's government in the catholic crown lands was universally perceived as the legitimate Kingdom of Bohemia, and this is the country that should use the shield, flag etc. of Bohemia. Also, the Hussites might make for a good revolter until the reformation.
As flag and shield, the Hussites could use the chalice, symbol of the movement and basic motive of all Hussite war flags, either the white chalice on black ground that was used by the Utraquists, as can be seen here:  or a white chalice on red ground, war flag of Jan Ziska. In revolt.txt, the Hussites would have the Bohemian provinces (Bohemia, Sudeten and Ostmarch) as their minimum provinces and the crown lands (Silesia, Moravia and Erz) as extra. They would obviously get the Hussite leaders; as for monarchs, it might be good to find something better than just "Hussite regency", however on the other hand the movement was so decentralized and anarchic that it's almost impossible to find anything more specific.
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Today you are frying a goose, but from the ashes a swan will rise. Jan Hus (Hus means goose in Czech) before his execution at the stake AGCEEP High Council member |
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25-08-2004, 19:29
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#3 |
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Watery Tart
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,235
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Currently, I have Bohemia switch to this flag/shield when they go Hussite. Don't know how historically correct it is, but it does have the chalice and that 'rebel' feel.
 http://www.fotw.net/flags/cz-tabor.html I never noticed the older flag of just a chalice farther down 
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It's true that every time you hear a bell, an angel gets its wings. But what they don't tell you is that every time you hear a mouse trap snap, and Angel gets set on fire. |
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25-08-2004, 23:03
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#4 |
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Vile treacherous Judas
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Beautiful Trier
Posts: 3,050
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The events to set up the two states. I made supporting Sigismund and the catholics the A choice because this is the simpler sequence (releasing Bohemia in just the crown lands requires a little workaround, as you can see below), because it was actually the Hussites who rebelled against the legitimate King of Bohemia and because Sigismund eventually ended up in possession of Bohemia. More events to come.
Improved version posted on page 3
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Today you are frying a goose, but from the ashes a swan will rise. Jan Hus (Hus means goose in Czech) before his execution at the stake AGCEEP High Council member Last edited by Twoflower; 02-09-2004 at 22:09. |
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26-08-2004, 08:22
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#5 |
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General
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 1,858
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Perhaps if the Hussites win, they could switch to being Bohemia, but with that flag of the lion holding a chalice. I'd love to see an entire chain of fantasy events, as Bohemia is one of my favourite countries to play, and I usually have the Hussites win.
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Victoria: Revolutions - VIP:R Hearts of Iron 2 - CORE2 Developer |
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26-08-2004, 09:04
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#6 |
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Porphyrogenitus
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: EU
Posts: 7,433
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I think this looks very promising and I too think there should be a Hussite tag. To make it fit better into later events I agree with Axin it should eventually revert to Bohemia, with new flags (CoA and script flag). I guess it somehow would have adopted to the ruling system around them if they have won, since re-using the cloak of the kingdom of Bohemia would have been their easiest way of gaining acceptence.
I think both setup events should include free troops. Is there really any point in having the AI chose between the factions? It will end up the same from an outside point of view and if we just let the AI always take option a we'll avoid the ceding of provinces. Also, we must remember to fix Aluns reformation stuff to not turn any remaining reformed provinces protestant when the reformation starts. It was discussed some week ago, could probably be submitted now.
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AGCEEP High Council Member The great unified mod - AGCEEP 1.57 Links to the first release of the HC map ICQ 174373941 Last edited by Norrefeldt; 26-08-2004 at 09:35. |
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26-08-2004, 10:18
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#7 |
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Captain
  
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: zpátky ve stověaté
Posts: 312
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It is GREAT!
Is it possible to include these five repelled crusades? One of them just by singing of the religious songs
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26-08-2004, 12:22
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#8 | |
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Porphyrogenitus
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: EU
Posts: 7,433
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Quote:
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AGCEEP High Council Member The great unified mod - AGCEEP 1.57 Links to the first release of the HC map ICQ 174373941 |
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26-08-2004, 12:25
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#9 |
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General
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: province #313
Posts: 2,335
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[not sure if written names are correct in english --
]Well, Hussites didn't like each other. Orphans hated ultrakwists in Praha and both groups hated Taborits. It should be added in events - like forming coaltion with ultrakwists to crush orphans or something.
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Stay cool, Rythin |
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26-08-2004, 12:37
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#10 | |
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Porphyrogenitus
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: EU
Posts: 7,433
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Quote:
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AGCEEP High Council Member The great unified mod - AGCEEP 1.57 Links to the first release of the HC map ICQ 174373941 |
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26-08-2004, 13:08
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#11 | ||||
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Vile treacherous Judas
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Beautiful Trier
Posts: 3,050
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Today you are frying a goose, but from the ashes a swan will rise. Jan Hus (Hus means goose in Czech) before his execution at the stake AGCEEP High Council member |
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26-08-2004, 13:58
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#12 | |||
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Porphyrogenitus
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: EU
Posts: 7,433
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AGCEEP High Council Member The great unified mod - AGCEEP 1.57 Links to the first release of the HC map ICQ 174373941 |
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26-08-2004, 19:24
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#13 |
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Vile treacherous Judas
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Beautiful Trier
Posts: 3,050
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The event for the first crusade against the Hussites, now affecting Bohemia instead of Hungary (since Bohemia is allied to Hungary, it will quite probably receive aid from Hungary anyway)
Code:
#Heresy in Bohemia
event = {
id = 251100
trigger = { event = 3801
exists = U30
exists = BOH
}
random = no
country = PAP
name = "The Hussite Heresy"
desc = "EVENTHIST251100"
style = 1
date = { day = 1 month = march year = 1420 }
action_a = {
name = "Call for a crusade against the Hussites"
command = { type = treasury value = -100 }
command = { type = trigger which = Bohemia2 } #BOH: Crusade against the Hussites
command = { type = relation which = HUN value = 50 }
}
action_b = {
name = "This is none of our business"
command = { type = stability value = -1 }
command = { type = relation which = HUN value = -50 }
}
}
#Crusade against the Hussites
event = {
id = Bohemia2
random = no
country = BOH
name = "Crusade against the Hussites"
desc = "EVENTHIST251100"
style = 1
action_a = {
name = "Let's crush these heretic rebels"
command = { type = war which = U30 }
command = { type = INF which = 315 value = 10000 }
command = { type = CAV which = 315 value = 5000 }
command = { type = ai which = BOH_antihussite.ai }
}
}
If the Hussites decide against the Taborites in one of the two events, the events for the early settlement initiative will happen. Code:
#The community of Tabor
event = {
id = Hussites2
random = no
country = U30
name = "The community of Tabor"
desc = "EVENTHIST129001"
style = 1
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1420 }
offset = 100
action_a = {
name = "Allow for the Taborite's influence"
command = { type = wakeleader which = 09680 } #Zizka
command = { type = wakeleader which = 09681 } #Procop Holy
command = { type = wakeleader which = XXXX } #Prokupek
command = { type = domestic which = land value = 2 }
command = { type = land value = 1000 }
command = { type = fortress which = -2 value = 1 }
command = { type = fortress which = 327 value = 1 }
command = { type = fortress which = 330 value = 1 }
command = { type = domestic which = serfdom value = -2 }
command = { type = provincemanpower which = -2 value = 4 }
command = { type = provincemanpower which = 327 value = 2 }
command = { type = INF which = -2 value = 25000 }
command = { type = CAV which = -2 value = 5000 }
command = { type = revoltrisk which = 120 value = 2 }
command = { type = setflag which = Taborites }
command = { type = stability value = -2 }
}
action_b = {
name = "Supress these fanatics"
command = { type = stability value = 1 }
command = { type = revolt which = -2 }
}
}
#Battle of Malesov
event = {
id = Hussites3
trigger = { flag = Taborites
}
random = no
country = XXX #Hussites
name = "Battle of Malesov"
desc = "Almost ever since the Hussite movement existed, there had been conflict between the
radical and the moderate wing of the faith. In 1423 this conflict turned into open warfare between the
Taborites, led by the brillant Jan Ziska, and an alliance of the city of Prague and the Utraquist aristocracy.
The brutal internal war cost many lives and weakened the Hussites substantially. A decisive battle
at Malesov on June 7th 1424 was won by the Hussites. As a consequence, the influence of the Taborites
in Hussite Bohemia increased dramatically, which resulted in a radicalisation of the whole movement, a
more hostile attitude towards Sigismund and his catholic supporters and a more offensive strategy. Of
course, the battle could have had a different outcome..."
style = 1
date = { day = 7 month = june year = 1424 }
offset = 0
action_a = {
name = "The Taborites win the day"
command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = -2 }
command = { type = domestic which = land value = 1 }
command = { type = domestic which = aristocracy value = -1 }
command = { type = domestic which = serfdom value = -2 }
command = { type = population which = 328 value = -5000 }
command = { type = population which = 327 value = - 2000 }
command = { type = population which = 330 value = -2000 }
command = { type = population which = 315 value = -2000 }
command = { type = provincetax which = 328 value = -1 }
command = { type = provincetax which = 327 value = -1 }
command = { type = provincetax which = 330 value = -1 }
command = { type = provincetax which = 315 value = -1 }
command = { type = stability value = -2 }
}
action_b = {
name = "The Moderates win the day"
command = { type = clrflag which = Taborites }
command = { type = sleepleader which = 09681 } #Prokop Holy
command = { type = sleepleader which = XXXXX } #Prokupek
command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = 1 }
command = { type = domestic which = aristocracy value = 1 }
command = { type = domestic which = serfdom value = 1 }
command = { type = population which = 328 value = -5000 }
command = { type = population which = 327 value = - 2000 }
command = { type = population which = 330 value = -2000 }
command = { type = population which = 315 value = -2000 }
command = { type = provincetax which = 328 value = -1 }
command = { type = provincetax which = 327 value = -1 }
command = { type = provincetax which = 330 value = -1 }
command = { type = provincetax which = 315 value = -1 }
command = { type = stability value = -2 }
}
}
Code:
#Settlement initiative
event = {
id = Hussites4
trigger = { NOT = { flag = Taborites }
exists = BOH
ai = yes }
random = no
country = XXX #Hussites
name = "Settlement initiative"
desc = "The war with the catholic supporters of Sigismund in Bohemia, the internal conflict within the Hussite
movement and the invasions of crusader armies have catastrophic consequences for Bohemia's economy.
Also many of the Utraquists think that only by a compromise with the Catholics and acknowledging Sigismund
as King of Bohemia the existance of the Hussite faith can be secured permanently. Should we propose peace
to the Catholics and end this devastating war?"
style = 1
date = { day = 1 month = january year = 1424 }
offset = 900
action_a = {
name = "We shall not compromise with the traitor of Jan Hus!"
command = { type = stability value = 1 }
}
action_b = {
name = "Try to negotiate peace (possibly game over)"
command = { type = trigger which = Bohemia3 } #BOH: Hussites offer settlement
command = { type = stability value = -2 }
}
}
#Hussites offer settlement
event = {
id = Bohemia3
random = no
country = BOH
name = "Hussites offer settlement"
desc = "Exhausted by the devastating war and having suppressed the most radical forces, the heretic Hussite
rebels have offered us a settlement. This would allow our King Sigismund to finally come to rule all of Bohemia, however
at the price of some concessions to this movement, which might cause us some prestige in the catholic world."
style = 1
action_a = {
name = "Accept their terms and reunite Bohemia"
command = { type = inherit which = U30 }
command = { type = domestic which = innovative value = 2 }
command = { type = domestic which = serfdom value = -3 }
command = { type = domestic which = aristocracy value = -2 }
command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = -1 }
command = { type = relation which = PAP value = -150 }
command = { type = relation which = HAB value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = LAT value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = BRA value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = U16 value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = LUX value = -50 }
command = { type = relation which = BAY value = -50 }
command = { type = stability value = -2 }
command = { type = vp value = -50 }
}
action_b = {
name = "Reject a compromise with these heretics"
command = { type = stability value = 1 }
command = { type = trigger which = Bohemia4 } #BOH: Economic consequences of endless wars
command = { type = trigger which = Hussites5 } #U30: Economic consequences of endless wars
}
}
#Economic consequences of endless wars
event = {
id = Bohemia4
random = no
country = BOH
name = "Economic consequences of endless wars"
desc = "Since the initiative to settle the conflict between King Sigismund and the Hussites has failed, the
bloody fighting in Bohemia will go on. Further depopulation, pillaging and destruction is the certain consequence. This
will cause immense suffering to the populace, no matter if Romanist or Hussite, and hurt
Bohemia's economic development for many years to come."
style = 1
action_a = {
name = "How terrible"
command = { type = population which = 328 value = -8000 }
command = { type = population which = 327 value = -4000 }
command = { type = population which = 330 value = -4000 }
command = { type = population which = 315 value = -3000 }
command = { type = population which = 314 value = -3000 }
command = { type = population which = 329 value = -3000 }
command = { type = provincetax which = 328 value = -1 }
command = { type = provincetax which = 327 value = -1 }
command = { type = provincetax which = 330 value = -1 }
command = { type = provincetax which = 315 value = -1 }
command = { type = provincetax which = 314 value = -1 }
command = { type = provincetax which = 329 value = -1 }
}
}
#Economic consequences of endless wars
event = {
id = Hussites5
random = no
country = U30
name = "Economic consequences of endless wars"
desc = "Since the initiative to settle the conflict between King Sigismund and the Hussites has failed, the
bloody fighting in Bohemia will go on. Further depopulation, pillaging and destruction is the certain consequence. This
will cause immense suffering to the populace, no matter if Romanist or Hussite, and hurt
Bohemia's economic development for many years to come."
style = 1
action_a = {
name = "How terrible"
command = { type = population which = 328 value = -8000 }
command = { type = population which = 327 value = -4000 }
command = { type = population which = 330 value = -4000 }
command = { type = population which = 315 value = -3000 }
command = { type = population which = 314 value = -3000 }
command = { type = population which = 329 value = -3000 }
command = { type = provincetax which = 328 value = -1 }
command = { type = provincetax which = 327 value = -1 }
command = { type = provincetax which = 330 value = -1 }
command = { type = provincetax which = 315 value = -1 }
command = { type = provincetax which = 314 value = -1 }
command = { type = provincetax which = 329 value = -1 }
}
}
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Today you are frying a goose, but from the ashes a swan will rise. Jan Hus (Hus means goose in Czech) before his execution at the stake AGCEEP High Council member Last edited by Twoflower; 26-08-2004 at 19:29. |
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26-08-2004, 19:32
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#14 |
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Lt. General
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,308
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We should be very careful about using permanent base tax hits to represent effects of war. Remember that these same hits will still be inhibiting the region in 1819. I generally support either:
1) reflecting such damage with RR (where appropriate), since RR now also lowers tax income, or 2) including another event to raise the tax values back after an appropriate length of time (no more than a generation, in most cases). |
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26-08-2004, 23:53
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#15 |
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harder better faster stronger
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: holland, nederlanden
Posts: 110
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I've got a question: will the Unitas Fratrum feature in any of this?
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self-determination for all people that are reasonable | pardon my French | see ei ole banaan | külmkapid on pühad
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27-08-2004, 02:06
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#16 | |
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General
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 1,858
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Quote:
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Victoria: Revolutions - VIP:R Hearts of Iron 2 - CORE2 Developer |
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27-08-2004, 10:56
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#17 |
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Captain
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: zpátky ve stověaté
Posts: 312
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All events sound very interesting. Just hope that you are not going to make Czech kingdom pure like Afghanistan with all these tax hits Twoflower, taxes should be restored afterwards.
And may be BOH should move capital to Prague after reunification. Some small correction of various Czech names: Zikmund (liska rysava; foxy fox as Czech nationalists called him later on )Jiri z Podebrad Rozmberk (but Oldrich z Rozmberka, i.e. Oldrich from Rozmberk; I know silly declinations of ours )Prokop Holy (literal translation: Kickthrough Hairless  )Jan Zizka |
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27-08-2004, 11:00
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#18 | ||
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Vile treacherous Judas
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Beautiful Trier
Posts: 3,050
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Quote:
So even with its tax value reduced by a few events it would still have something above 15, which is not exactly poor like Afghanistan  Quote:
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Today you are frying a goose, but from the ashes a swan will rise. Jan Hus (Hus means goose in Czech) before his execution at the stake AGCEEP High Council member Last edited by Twoflower; 27-08-2004 at 11:34. |
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27-08-2004, 11:38
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#19 | |
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Porphyrogenitus
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: EU
Posts: 7,433
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Quote:
Btw, will you include accepted suggestions in your code here as we go or should we report it afterwards? 
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AGCEEP High Council Member The great unified mod - AGCEEP 1.57 Links to the first release of the HC map ICQ 174373941 |
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27-08-2004, 11:47
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#20 | ||
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Captain
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: zpátky ve stověaté
Posts: 312
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