In this thread, an overhaul of the Hussite Wars will be proposed and discussed. This is gonna be based largely on the great ideas of Vaclav Adam. I'll just quote him:
Vaclav Adam said:My proposal for the period 1419-1490 is to have two countries, Hussite Bohemia (HBO) and Catholic Bohemia (CBO).
# Vaclav IV's death:
HBO gets Erz, Sud and Boh plus cores on Mor and Sil, turns protestant(or reformed), loses German as culture etc., as it is now, plus strong revolt in Sudeten that controls the city (Hussites never controlled Pilsen)
CBO gets Sil (capital) and Mor, cores on the rest, becomes HUN vassals, allies etc. as it is now when BOH accepts Sigi, plus strong revolt in Mor
Human player has the choice to continue as HBO or CBO.
Hungary does not get any cores (just hates HBO and loves CBO, so it will surely help CBO to both defend and attack).
Hussite wars:
If HBO defeated (defeat = all HBO provinces not controlled by HBO), or # Iglau until CBO alive, BOH united (no BB hits of course, German culture is national) - plus third countries surrender their conquests and are restituted, if conquered - great idea, just don't know why Poland seems to be exempted, BTW but this may be my bad reading of the event
Hungary and even Austria can get vp, but not provinces.
If CBO defeated, everything goes to HBO (not sure about BB hits) and we go on with Twoflower's excellent events.
# Iglau or HBO defeated:
Bohemia gets back everything and surrenders any conquests, but no cessions to Hungary, German culture back.
Generally speaking, the difference between Iglau and defeat is in domestic policy settings and in vp's for Hungary/Austria.
The CBO/HBO cores setting should make sure than any revolters will defect to the other fraction rather than foreign powers.
Vaclav Adam said:Twoflower and Isaack,
this is my approach to Bohemian events for sigismond's fight against the hussites, let's discuss them if you want. I am not concrete until we decide if having a Czech revolter makes sense. The descriptions are only outlines.
# 1st defenestration of Prague
as Twoflower proposed it. Consider also serfdom = -1 and innovativeness = 1, because the defenestration led to a switch of power in the city of Prague from the most rich burghers to the 'middle-class' and enhanced religious freedom.
# Death of Vaclav IV
A: Join the Hussites and reject the traitor - this would have the dp effects that Twoflower proposed, plus: (i) create 'revolter'; (ii) secede Moravia and Silesia to 'CBO'; (iii) change religion in Bohemia, Erz and Sudeten to reformed; (iv) war with 'revolter'; (v) anything else regarding the initial settings for 'revolter' - enters alliance with Hungary, flag = bohemia?
B: Fight the Hussites and accept our rightful king - (i) create 'revolter'; (ii) secede Bohemia, Erz and Sudeten to 'revolter'; (iii) change religion in Bohemia, Erz and Sudeten to reformed; (iv) movecapital to Silesia; (v) innovativeness = -1; (vi) serfdom = 1; (vii) relations with Hungary (Austria, Papacy, others) = 200; (viii) war against 'revolter'; (ix) anything else regarding the settings for 'revolter' - flag = hussite, religion = reformed etc?
# Death of Vaclav IV for Hungary
Hungary get core on Bohemia (if you think this is needed to stimulate it to fight the hussites)
Heresy in Bohemia and Crusade against hussites
as you proposed, except for Oldrich z Rozmberka as Hungarian leader - he would be 'CBO' leader.
NEW # Death of Vaclav IV for Meissen, Saxony, Brandenburg, Bavaria, Croatia, Austrai
warning that they will have to surrender any conquered Bohemian provinces
The following events are BOH or revolter, depending who is who (hussite or catholic).
# Community of Tabor [hussites]
A: same as Twoflower
B: same except no changes in dp [no taborite influence means continuation of existing situation, i.e. the dominance of Prague in the hussite movement]
NEW # Battle of Malesov [hussites]
7 June 1424; only if Community of Tabor A; "In 1423 broke an internal war between the taborites and an alliance of Prague and utraquist aristocracy. The taborites (Zizka) won on 7 June 1424 at Malesov. This victory meant radicalization of the hussites and the hussites went into offensive. The internal war, however, costed many lives."
A: centralization = -2; land = 1; quality = 1; aristocracy = 1 (influence of gentry); serfdom = -2; get 10-year CB on Austria, Bavaria, Sachsen, Meissen and Hungary (to simulate hussite raids); population in Bohemia, Erz, Sudeten, Moravia (Moravia only if controlled by the Hussites) = - 10% of 1419.
NEW # Settlement initiative [hussites]
between 1424 and 1427; only if Community of Tabor B; "The war has catastrophic consequences on our economy. should we consider proposing peace?"
A: No. Population in Bohemia, Erz, Sudeten, Moravia (Moravia only if controlled by the Hussites) = - 10% of 1419.
B: Yes. Triggers 'Hussites propose peace' for the Catholics or Hungary, if Catholics do not exist. population in Bohemia, Erz, Sudeten, Moravia (Moravia only if controlled by the Hussites) = - 10% of 1419.
NEW # Hussites offer settlement. [catholics, not played by the human player]
triggered by Settlement initiative B
A: Accept. [Game end]
B: No concessions.
NEW # Catholics accepted the compromise [hussites]
Triggered by Hussites offer settlement A
A: Cool - consequences as in current Iglau, plus German culture back (including events restituting conquered provinces)
NEW # Hussites offer settlement. [Hungary]
triggered by Settlement intiative B and 'CBO' does not exist
A: Accept. - As current Settlement with the Hussites (no cores involved)
B: No concessions.
NEW # Hungary accepted the compromise [hussites]
Triggered by Hussites offer settlement A
A: Cool - consequences as in current Iglau, plus German culture back (including events restituting conquered provinces)
NEW # Settlement initiative [hussites not played by human player, catholics played by human player]
between 1424 and 1427; only if Community of Tabor B; "The war has catastrophic consequences on our economy. should we consider proposing peace?"
A: No. Population in Bohemia, Erz, Sudeten, Moravia (Moravia only if controlled by the Hussites) = - 10% of 1419.
B: Yes. Triggers 'Hussites propose peace' for the Catholics or Hungary, if Catholics do not exist. population in Bohemia, Erz, Sudeten, Moravia (Moravia only if controlled by the Hussites) = - 10% of 1419. [Possible game end]
NEW # Hussites offer settlement. [catholics human player]
triggered by Settlement intiative B
A: Accept. - annex 'HBO', capital to Prague, dp settings and diplo relations changed to correspond to what 'HBO' would have after Iglau, plus restitutions.
B: No concessions.
NEW # Economic consequences of endless wars.
Not Settlement accepted; the same event for 'CBO' and 'HBO'
A: Population in Bohemia = - 35 % of 1419
Silesia = - 25 % of 1419; Moravia = - 25 % of 1419; Erz and Sudeten = - 30 % of 1419.
If the wars do not end by settlement in 1427, we would go to the mechanism that Twoflower proposed for settlement and military defeat [plus the possibility that the human plays 'CBO', German culture is back, all CBs removed and minus the possibility for Zikmund (right Czech spelling) to incorporate Bohemia into Hungary].