Culture Requests

[ribbon22]

This thread is for culture requests and modifications. They are posted below:

Colour Scheme as follows:
uncontested motions
contested motions

LIST "O" CULTURE REQUESTS AND MODIFICATIONS; Aye/Ney; Relavant Post #

• 'Huron' and 'Iroquois' cultures merged to 'Iroquoian' culture; 1/0; 2
• Merge all future vacant provinces into 'Native' culture; 6/0; 7,9,11,17,18,65
• Merge 'Taureg' culture with 'Berber' culture; 3/0 39,40,41
• Change 'Tartar' culture in Kalmyk province to 'Mongol' culture via event, during the GC;
• Create 'Ainu' culture for the Ezochi province; 2/0; 53,55
• Create 'Songhai' culture for West Africa; 1/0; 61
• Give Awdaghost province 'Berber' culture; 1/0; 63
• Create 'Fulani' culture; 2/0 62,64
• Create 'Airu' culture; 1/0 85
• Create of 'Lotharingian' culture; 2/1; 3,31/12
• Replace 'Frisian' culture with 'Dutch' culture; 2/3; 12,15/20,21,24
• Replace 'German' culture in Geldre with 'Dutch' culture; 1/0; 24
• Replace 'German' culture in Oldenburg with 'Frisian' culture; 1/1
• Split 'German' culture into 'Upper' 'Middle' and 'Lower'; 2/3; 25,31/25,29,32
• Split 'German' culture into 'Bavarian', 'Swabian', 'Franconian', 'Saxon' and 'Low Saxon' cultures;
  2/3; 25,31/25,29,32
• Replace 'Maltese' culture with 'Italian' culture; 2/1; 26,38/32
• Replace 'Maltese' culture with either 'Arabic' or 'Berber';1/2; 32/26,38

NOTE: Please feel free to correct anything represented above pertaining to your own post(s) that you feel may be misleading.

[ribbon22]

'Huron' and 'Iroquois' cultures should be united into "Iroquoian". This saves us a culture tag

[Snin]

Lotharingian?

[Kennelly]

Originally Posted by ribbon22

'Huron' and 'Iroquois' cultures should be united into "Iroquoian". This saves us a culture tag

I'm not exactly into that,what NA nations are in game now as revolters (none are present at gamestart,that I know)?If there aren't (and won't) be any,couldn't even more North American cultures be merged,perhaps even all?I mean,with no NA nations what need is there for several cultures in NA?They serve no purpose at all as it doesn't matter when England tries to colonize a province,whether this province is Huron or Iroquoian or North American culture,it is all about number of natives and their aggressiveness. I know it's not historically very accurate to merge,i.E. Navajo and Huron,but these tags could be used where they are more needed,say in splitting up Scandinavian or German culture.

[ribbon22]

Originally Posted by Kennelly

I'm not exactly into that,what NA nations are in game now as revolters (none are present at gamestart,that I know)?If there aren't (and won't) be any,couldn't even more North American cultures be merged,perhaps even all?I mean,with no NA nations what need is there for several cultures in NA?They serve no purpose at all as it doesn't matter when England tries to colonize a province,whether this province is Huron or Iroquoian or North American culture,it is all about number of natives and their aggressiveness. I know it's not historically very accurate to merge,i.E. Navajo and Huron,but these tags could be used where they are more needed,say in splitting up
Scandinavian or German culture.

Hmm, well three NA nations are going back into AGCEEP; Huron, Iroquois and Cherokee. Currently, there are by last count 5 free culture tags. There are Huron and Iroquois culture tags and even Cherokee culture tags that are reserved for Huron, Iroquois and Cherokee that are currently not being used.

So why should Huron and Iroquois culture tags be merged? Well, they all spoke a different language which was unintelligeable to each other, but it is based off the same linguistic tree 'Iroquoian'. Second, archeologists group these nations into the same catagory as 'evolving' from the same migrant ppls with the same farming techniques and similar societal customs, tools, and buildings: 'Iroquoian'. Lastly, when Iroquois raided Hurons and Hurons raided Iroquois, they adopted members of each others tribes, they assimilated each other in a small scale over time during their long-standing mourning wars (picutre your basic celtic blood feud), and finally, with firearms (and the Hurons coked up on Catholicism mind you), the Iroquois mass assimilated the Hurons at the culmination of the Beaver Wars. There's no reason to have Huron and Iroquois as seperate culture tags. They must be merged. This saves at least one culture tag giving us 6 free culture tags. If you'd still like to protest this move, then do it in the North America thread

I'd like to try to keep this thread relatively clean.

[Isaac Brock]

Originally Posted by ribbon22

Lastly, when Iroquois raided Hurons and Hurons raided Iroquois, they adopted members of each others tribes, they assimilated each other in a small scale over time during their long-standing mourning wars (picutre your basic celtic blood feud), and finally, with firearms (and the Hurons coked up on Catholicism mind you), the Iroquois mass assimilated the Hurons at the culmination of the Beaver Wars.

The Iroquois sucessfully assimilated English and French captives. And there is a reason why Johnson is a pretty common name among the "pure laine" Quebecois.

[doktarr]

Originally Posted by ribbon22

Currently, there are by last count 5 free culture tags.

Actually, there are around 20 free culture tags, provided we are willing to merge cultures that no nation can ever have into "native" culture as needed. This has no impact on gameplay; the only time it can even be noticed is when you examine the culture of a trading post.

[ribbon22]

Originally Posted by doktarr

Actually, there are around 20 free culture tags, provided we are willing to merge cultures that no nation can ever have into "native" culture as needed. This has no impact on gameplay; the only time it can even be noticed is when you examine the culture of a trading post.

I'd be interested in knowing how much support there is for this idea. I don't think I'd be for it though, I'd prefer a more regional approach - a more moderate 'merging' process.

But which tags do you think deserve "native" culture?

btw, my count of five was simply based off of Norefeldt's list which, mind you, states it is incomplete so there may indeed be more than five, currently.

[Jester]

Originally Posted by doktarr

Actually, there are around 20 free culture tags, provided we are willing to merge cultures that no nation can ever have into "native" culture as needed. This has no impact on gameplay; the only time it can even be noticed is when you examine the culture of a trading post.

I support this Idea..lets merge all the empty areas into NAtive culture. I see no reason to have cultures using tags that are never playing any importance in the game.

LAte,
Jester

[doktarr]

Originally Posted by ribbon22

I'd be interested in knowing how much support there is for this idea. I don't think I'd be for it though, I'd prefer a more regional approach - a more moderate 'merging' process.

But which tags do you think deserve "native" culture?

btw, my count of five was simply based off of Norefeldt's list which, mind you, states it is incomplete so there may indeed be more than five, currently.

Well, just look at the sticky on cultures. Just to pick a few examples, "Cree", "Inuit", "Mississippian", "Naskapi", and "Teremembe" could all be merged into "native" without changing gameplay. That was just skimming the list - compiling a complete list would take some effort in figuring out exactly what's being used and what isn't. But I'd guess the total number is around 20.

[ribbon22]

Originally Posted by Jester

I support this Idea..lets merge all the empty areas into NAtive culture. I see no reason to have cultures using tags that are never playing any importance in the game.

good point. If doktarr was referring to empty provinces then I misinterpreted his suggestion. I'd also support a move to make provinces which are empty (excluding those which will be gaining tags) merged as 'native'. But we can always do this when there is a greater culture demand than cultures available; there is no need for it at the moment.

I'll post the suggestion in the first post.

[bwyb00]

- I would like to see the Frisian culture disapear. I know it makes sense to keep it for "historic" reason, but if you want too play Netherlands in the AGC-EEP, as there is only a 1419 scenario, your only choice is to play Friesland or Gelderland, and the only thing you can do at the beginning for each one is to annex the other.
- For the same reason, Geldre should be Dutch right from the beginning and not German, so that Friesland (dutch) can annex it

- I am totally against a Lotharingian culture, but maybe you should explain a little more the idea behind this

[ribbon22]

Originally Posted by bwyb00

- I am totally against a Lotharingian culture, but maybe you should explain a little more the idea behind this

bwyb00, if you'd like to read more about this discussion, go to the Burgundy thread and post away. The issue is far rom resolved

[ribbon22]

Originally Posted by Snin

Lotharingian?

Snin, can you create for us one of your handy EU2 maps that show everyone where you think Lotharingian culture should start (or develoup as you've advocated)? We could then comment and modify it to reach some kind of consensus on exactly where we'd like to see it. A visual tool would really help!

If not, no big deal. If so, post it in the Burgundian thread perhaps?

[Ironfoundersson]

Originally Posted by bwyb00

- I would like to see the Frisian culture disapear. I know it makes sense to keep it for "historic" reason, but if you want too play Netherlands in the AGC-EEP, as there is only a 1419 scenario, your only choice is to play Friesland or Gelderland, and the only thing you can do at the beginning for each one is to annex the other.

I agree on Frisian culture (even though I'm from there myself)

Its a one-province cultureand doesn't add much value to the game. The Dutch republic had no more difficulty ruling over Friesland than over other parts of the Netherlands.

[ribbon22]

thanks for the input Ironfoundersson, I've included bwyb00's suggestion in the list.

Mind you an event could always change the 'Frisian' culture to 'Dutch' culture, or the Netherlands could gain Frisian culture as a secondary state culture.

[Norrefeldt]

Originally Posted by doktarr

Actually, there are around 20 free culture tags, provided we are willing to merge cultures that no nation can ever have into "native" culture as needed. This has no impact on gameplay; the only time it can even be noticed is when you examine the culture of a trading post.

I think it would be a good idea. I hope we don't get too many split cultures in Europe when people notice there is room for more cultures.

[Ironfoundersson]

Originally Posted by Norrefeldt

I think it would be a good idea. I hope we don't get too many split cultures in Europe when people notice there is room for more cultures.

Agreed. A culture with 3 or less provinces should be rare and only exist for a very good reason.

[Kennelly]

Originally Posted by ribbon22

Hmm, well three NA nations are going back into AGCEEP; Huron, Iroquois and Cherokee. Currently, there are by last count 5 free culture tags. There are Huron and Iroquois culture tags and even Cherokee culture tags that are reserved for Huron, Iroquois and Cherokee that are currently not being used.

So why should Huron and Iroquois culture tags be merged? Well, they all spoke a different language which was unintelligeable to each other, but it is based off the same linguistic tree 'Iroquoian'. Second, archeologists group these nations into the same catagory as 'evolving' from the same migrant ppls with the same farming techniques and similar societal customs, tools, and buildings: 'Iroquoian'. Lastly, when Iroquois raided Hurons and Hurons raided Iroquois, they adopted members of each others tribes, they assimilated each other in a small scale over time during their long-standing mourning wars (picutre your basic celtic blood feud), and finally, with firearms (and the Hurons coked up on Catholicism mind you), the Iroquois mass assimilated the Hurons at the culmination of the Beaver Wars. There's no reason to have Huron and Iroquois as seperate culture tags. They must be merged. This saves at least one culture tag giving us 6 free culture tags. If you'd still like to protest this move, then do it in the North America thread

I'd like to try to keep this thread relatively clean.

Why do you think I want to protest this move?I supported this and enhanced this idea by suggesting to merge all native cultures in empty provinces,where they serve no gameplay purpose,what is EXACTLY now an official proposal.
I don't understand why you remind me to "keep this thread clean",when YOU suggest the same thing!And of course I was talking about empty provinces,why else would I have wanted to know which NA provinces won't be empty anymore?

[Jester]

I auctually like the Frisian culture, the people of this area were fiercely independent and were even Semi-Autonomous from the Netherlands till like the early 1700s.

Speaking of splitting up Europe's culture. The biggest one that I feel is definitely needed is at least a 3-way German split. Upper, middle and lower.
This to me is like the #1 cultue split that is needed.

Late,
Jester