Dobrudja - province from hell

Ludwig Van · 19-08-2001, 18:25

Hey! What's up with this province?

When I view it, the supply level is 30. But no matter how small an army is it seems to just melt away.
After capturing the joint I left some 20000/0/300 to watch the Turkish border. When the first rebelion occured, my army was down to 0/0/300. After putting down I got into a war with PL so the army left for a while.
After the second rebellion, I left an army of 30000/0/160 there. Actually, I just forgot about it. The third rebellion occured a year or two later - I have an army of 0/0/160. During another war against Turkey, I raised a 1000 infantry there, I came a couple of months go by and they are down to 971. I don't get it. When I look at the army,it the attrition rate is 0. They have not moved.

Anybody else see anything like this?

Even though, it's a fabulous game!

**BiB** · 19-08-2001, 18:46

300 cannons count for 30K infantry, so leaving a 50K detachment in a province that can support 30K is not a good idea

dralizaar · 19-08-2001, 18:54

also winter does affect that prov at times lowering your supplt level by as much as 10 sometimes..generally its best to leave only 20k total troops there...sometimes as high as 25k seems to work...also raising fort levels/land tech levels will increase the number that can safely stay there

Agelastus · 19-08-2001, 20:56

And, as you noticed, infantry takes attrition losses faster than artillery!

But army weight and winter are your basic problems, as stated. In a province where winter can affect you always keep your army at a unit weight ten below the province's nominal supply plus your leaders supply level. It just takes a bit of fiddling at times, but it's much cheaper than building new troops!

Heyesey · 19-08-2001, 22:13

Evidently the problem you're having is that the province from hell froze over

Ludwig Van · 19-08-2001, 22:16

I can understand the really large army evaporating, but not the other two. Supply level of 30 - 4 for leader, - 0 for tech. Even if winter lasted from nov through march the 20k/0/160 still should have quite a bit of infantry left. But no matter. I won't let that happen again.

beowulf · 19-08-2001, 22:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Heyesey
Evidently the problem you're having is that the province from hell froze over

This may well be the best reply ever.

Belrick · 20-08-2001, 00:16

ALWAYS check the skull and not province supply, watch the colours (note spelling) and hold your mouse over to get a run down of the + and - factors unfluencing how fast your peasent army dies.

Heyesey · 20-08-2001, 00:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Ludwig Van
I can understand the really large army evaporating, but not the other two. Supply level of 30 - 4 for leader, - 0 for tech. Even if winter lasted from nov through march the 20k/0/160 still should have quite a bit of infantry left. But no matter. I won't let that happen again.

In winter, that province supply is effectively 20, +4 for leader, is 24 .. you have a 36k army there, and they will waste away at 12% a month in the snow. That's gonna hurt

The manual doesn't make clear that, as well as increasing the maximum number that you can lose to attrition in one month, winter also cuts the province supply. It doesn't even mention this when you hover over the attrition skull, which is why the numbers sometimes don't add up.

**BiB** · 20-08-2001, 01:10

Isn't the attrition even higher in the winter ?

Heyesey · 20-08-2001, 03:32

It should be 12% if the army size exceeds the winter supply by 12 (36 in a 30 province, minus 10 for winter, add 4 for leader, equals 12) right? Or does winter mean it goes even higher still? I'm guessing, because I never sit armies in provinces where they will attrit themselves to death

**BiB** · 20-08-2001, 03:52

Even higher IIRC as I have been playing Poland recently and when fighting Russia those attrition rates go very high

Winter rules/sucks (depends on who's on the offensive

)

AmbientOyster · 20-08-2001, 14:20

Winter and tropical climate lowers the supply in the province by 10/5 (though this doesn't show in the province supply information). It also increases the maximum attirition possible by the same numbers.

F.ex if a mountain province in southern china has a supply value of say, 18 it can in reality only support 13 because it has a tropical climate. A 30k army with land tech 1 in that province will suffer attirition by 10(tech) + 5(mountain) + 5(tropical climate)%

Heretic · 20-08-2001, 15:19

errm,
IMHO,
Dobrudja cannot be the province from hell,
they have very nice beaches, friendly natives,
great climate etc.
(i know it is a cheap gag)

Heretic

Agelastus · 20-08-2001, 20:03

Very cheap!

Winter attrition's one of the main reasons I never play a country east of central Europe-I personally find it embarassing to find I've lost more troops to attrition than combat!

**BiB** · 20-08-2001, 20:19

I also rarely play over there or up north. Prefer the desert. Or even better Western Europe

THough I'm trying Poland now for the first time. I4m hanging in there

Xanadu · 20-08-2001, 20:37

But the cool thing is that in those Eastern/Northern provinces one never has to worry about rebellions getting outta control because all those rebel scum die off by Febuary.

Agelastus · 20-08-2001, 21:15

Quote:

Originally posted by Xanadu
But the cool thing is that in those Eastern/Northern provinces one never has to worry about rebellions getting outta control because all those rebel scum die off by Febuary.

It's a nice bonus, but it doesn't placate me-besides, it's why I've never seen Russia really fragmented by the ToT that the IGC makers so kindly included!

Xanadu · 21-08-2001, 00:47

IIRC dosen't the Time of Troubles seem to increace the number of revolters as opposed just from a "nationalism revolt"?

Agelastus · 21-08-2001, 20:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Xanadu
IIRC dosen't the Time of Troubles seem to increace the number of revolters as opposed just from a "nationalism revolt"?

No, possible revolters are set as part of the original scenario data. The ToT is just supposed to be a lot worse than normal revolts or civil wars.

19-08-2001, 18:25	#1
Ludwig Van Private Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: VanWa Posts: 17	Dobrudja - province from hell Hey! What's up with this province? When I view it, the supply level is 30. But no matter how small an army is it seems to just melt away. After capturing the joint I left some 20000/0/300 to watch the Turkish border. When the first rebelion occured, my army was down to 0/0/300. After putting down I got into a war with PL so the army left for a while. After the second rebellion, I left an army of 30000/0/160 there. Actually, I just forgot about it. The third rebellion occured a year or two later - I have an army of 0/0/160. During another war against Turkey, I raised a 1000 infantry there, I came a couple of months go by and they are down to 971. I don't get it. When I look at the army,it the attrition rate is 0. They have not moved. Anybody else see anything like this? Even though, it's a fabulous game!

20-08-2001, 00:16	#8
Belrick Captain Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: New Zealand, Scottish heritage Posts: 428	ALWAYS check the skull and not province supply, watch the colours (note spelling) and hold your mouse over to get a run down of the + and - factors unfluencing how fast your peasent army dies. __________________ Before you criticize a man, walk a mile in his shoes... that way when you do criticize him, you'll be a mile away and in his shoes.

20-08-2001, 15:19	#14
Heretic Eigenvalue Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Sinking rapidly Posts: 1,995	non-game errm, IMHO, Dobrudja cannot be the province from hell, they have very nice beaches, friendly natives, great climate etc. (i know it is a cheap gag) Heretic __________________ Bolivar II A Crown of Ice and Snow Hamburger Royalties

20-08-2001, 20:37	#17
Xanadu Protector of Paradise Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Snohomish, Washington, USA Posts: 5,042	But the cool thing is that in those Eastern/Northern provinces one never has to worry about rebellions getting outta control because all those rebel scum die off by Febuary. __________________ For I have dined on honeydew , And drunk the milk of paradise.

21-08-2001, 00:47	#19
Xanadu Protector of Paradise Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Snohomish, Washington, USA Posts: 5,042	IIRC dosen't the Time of Troubles seem to increace the number of revolters as opposed just from a "nationalism revolt"? __________________ For I have dined on honeydew , And drunk the milk of paradise.

19-08-2001, 18:46	#2
BiB Smurf Admin Administrator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Brugge Posts: 27,246	300 cannons count for 30K infantry, so leaving a 50K detachment in a province that can support 30K is not a good idea

19-08-2001, 18:54	#3
dralizaar Lt. General Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Virginia, USA Posts: 1,424	also winter does affect that prov at times lowering your supplt level by as much as 10 sometimes..generally its best to leave only 20k total troops there...sometimes as high as 25k seems to work...also raising fort levels/land tech levels will increase the number that can safely stay there

19-08-2001, 20:56	#4
Agelastus Princeps Senatus Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Northamptonshire, United Kingdom Posts: 3,985	And, as you noticed, infantry takes attrition losses faster than artillery! But army weight and winter are your basic problems, as stated. In a province where winter can affect you always keep your army at a unit weight ten below the province's nominal supply plus your leaders supply level. It just takes a bit of fiddling at times, but it's much cheaper than building new troops!

19-08-2001, 22:13	#5
Heyesey Banned Join Date: May 2001 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 3,522	Evidently the problem you're having is that the province from hell froze over

19-08-2001, 22:16	#6
Ludwig Van Private Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: VanWa Posts: 17	I can understand the really large army evaporating, but not the other two. Supply level of 30 - 4 for leader, - 0 for tech. Even if winter lasted from nov through march the 20k/0/160 still should have quite a bit of infantry left. But no matter. I won't let that happen again.

20-08-2001, 01:10	#10
BiB Smurf Admin Administrator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Brugge Posts: 27,246	Isn't the attrition even higher in the winter ?

20-08-2001, 03:32	#11
Heyesey Banned Join Date: May 2001 Location: United Kingdom Posts: 3,522	It should be 12% if the army size exceeds the winter supply by 12 (36 in a 30 province, minus 10 for winter, add 4 for leader, equals 12) right? Or does winter mean it goes even higher still? I'm guessing, because I never sit armies in provinces where they will attrit themselves to death

20-08-2001, 03:52	#12
BiB Smurf Admin Administrator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Brugge Posts: 27,246	Even higher IIRC as I have been playing Poland recently and when fighting Russia those attrition rates go very high Winter rules/sucks (depends on who's on the offensive )

20-08-2001, 14:20	#13
AmbientOyster Lurker Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Uppsala, Sweden Posts: 54	Winter and tropical climate lowers the supply in the province by 10/5 (though this doesn't show in the province supply information). It also increases the maximum attirition possible by the same numbers. F.ex if a mountain province in southern china has a supply value of say, 18 it can in reality only support 13 because it has a tropical climate. A 30k army with land tech 1 in that province will suffer attirition by 10(tech) + 5(mountain) + 5(tropical climate)%

20-08-2001, 20:03	#15
Agelastus Princeps Senatus Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Northamptonshire, United Kingdom Posts: 3,985	Very cheap! Winter attrition's one of the main reasons I never play a country east of central Europe-I personally find it embarassing to find I've lost more troops to attrition than combat!

20-08-2001, 20:19	#16
BiB Smurf Admin Administrator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Brugge Posts: 27,246	I also rarely play over there or up north. Prefer the desert. Or even better Western Europe THough I'm trying Poland now for the first time. I4m hanging in there