Confused, Laugh, Cry, Howl

Wolf Hawken · 04-06-2004, 07:32

Well, ok. So these events are MESSED UP. Basically, I don't think the average player should have to be a programmer to play these games. Yeah, I can look at the events, but here's the complaint:

I am playing Prussia (maybe this is my problem?) The first time I played I did not have enough manpower for war with Austria in 1866 and promptly died. The second time I played Prussia, things went much better, but I was surprised when the 1860 war with France ended abrubtly. Having played EU, EU2, and HOI, I was attempting to take many French provinces when Paris fell. Anyway, although I united Germany in that game, I had badboy 48.00 and my pop's CON was like 0 from low taxes. With such a badboy, only friendly Russia was going to war. (This also happens in EU2, player badboy high means AI countries stop fighting each other). I figured that WWI was not going to happen, since I was the only kingdom in the world with BB. Anyway, I tried a third time, since the game is worth playing.

I can't believe I just wasted an entire evening on this. (Actually, I can.)

So, I scoop up Mainz and Hessen from the liberal rev. by DOW them after they pull out of the grand alliance (not like I wanted to, but I needed to ensure badboy was lower than last time. After a war, the factories are usually dead and when I unified Germany the previous time I inherited 20+ factories). Other than Holstien, I am playing rather laid back. Colonizing and Industrializing. 1864 comes along and I increase defense spending to grow recruits for my line formations. In SEP 1865, all units that are about to participate in the upcoming festivities head to the Austrian border. Austria had gone super-Democratic beforehand so I knew I did not have to fight all of the Germanic states this time. (They get a neat flag, though). After spending TWO YEARS raising recruits in manpower, on DEC 15 1865 I increase army spending and raise all combat units to ready-full.

Austria is not strong. They had mil rating 22. In late JAN 1866, the event triggers. Austria caves in -- no war.

So, I send everyone over to the Rhineland. France is next, right? In the meantime, since I cannot afford to keep my units at max strength for 4 years, I lower army spending to 0 and start regrowing 330,000 recruits in manpower.

In late 1869, I am ready. War with France should be interesting since, unlike Austria, France has 1,000,000 in mobilization units. Again, I have regrown my manpower. Now, during this time period, I have built like 1 RR and upgraded a single factory. Colonization is slow. Then, of course, in preparation for a longer fight, research spending is next to nil. I have not made much money during any of this!

1870 - Spain places an Italian on the thrown in succession event (Strange, I have never seen Italy in this game... even a weak Austria, with but 10 divisions, can stop Italy from forming)

1871 - NOTHING HAPPENS

1872 - should I laugh, cry, or quit? NOTHING HAS STILL HAPPENED. There are no N/S german confeds, no war with anyone, and I am sitting on 343,000 in manpower. Defense spending is around 67%. I lost a whole year in research until I realized that the event war with France is not going to happen. My finances are fine but low and I have not built anything for 7 years!, but, um, waiting for an event that will not happen is just plain - AAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH !

Come on, people. If Austria does not contest a Prussian peaceful control over the Germanic states, that should not change the French equation. There has been NO INDICATION as to what I now have to do to unify Germany (other than DOW all my allies).

What, I have to go in and read the events like a programmer just to play the game? (yeah, I can do that, but, um, I should not have to). Since there was no war with Austria, (and the event message after they gave in said "great" or something), I have to -KNOW- the events, in the files, and declare war on Austria anyway? Should not things work out (German unification) even if there is no war of 1866?

This is just plain crazy. It is bad enough waiting for 'event's' that dictate the flow of the game. Any little deviation and the events do not trigger.

If it weren't so gosh darn STUPID I'd laugh. Then again, it is 2 AM and the whole D#$@ night is shot.

PS: customers should not have to mod or rewrite the program to play/enjoy the product. It is not my fault that Austria AI has no army. They just have not built any troops or increased mobilization. I mean, what do I have to do to get Germany to unify? (Other than read game program files or mod or rewrite the whole bloody game myself)

So, maybe on the 4th play through things will work. Right now, I just don't know ...

Wolf Hawken · 04-06-2004, 07:35

I like the game a lot but sometimes I wonder.

ComteDeMeighan · 04-06-2004, 08:24

Why don't you try Darkrenown's German Unification Mod?

Heres a link http://victoria.nsen.ch/wiki/images/9/99/DR%27s_mod.rar
It Helps to end BB and adds events and stufff

Jorrig · 04-06-2004, 08:53

Well, why didn't you just declare war on France?
The Austrian question does not matter for the unification, you just have to conquer Paris.
Of course, no one tells you in the game, I understand your problem.
On the other hand, if the Spanish place an Italian on their throne, the French need not be angry an go to war for this. They're just angry when the Spanish try to install a Hohenzollern there - a Prussian, after all.
My advice: load the game, declare war on France, have fun and conquer Paris! If you hold it for some weeks, the unification event should trigger. If it does not, don't look into the game files, but start again. :-)

Heretic · 04-06-2004, 09:55

No,

this guy really has a point.
you spend ages playing normally, and then some key event comes up.
you don't know which is the 'right' choice to make for what you want to do unless you have already heard about the event. That spoils the whole choice thing, since you are either really expecting what comes up, or don;t know, and cna readily make the wrong choice.
that might be ok if it was a game that was quick to replay. but they are not.

ah well, i still play relentlessly so why do i complain>?

Heretic

Napoleon Rules · 04-06-2004, 10:11

@Jorrig : I second that.

War with Austria was not needed. If Spain does not choose a Habsbourg (Note: I do not think it is a Hohenzoller) then there is no event-triggered war with France. Well. I unified Germany twice the "historical" way, and I never waited for the event to trigger anyway. If you declare war yourself you can do all the setup (alliances, etc...) at your own pace. I found out it was quite a good idea to declare war in advance (before september 1870) with the objective to occupy Paris in September. Usually I just put a few entranched troops on the 2-3 border provinces and land about 2x10 divisions in Normandy. That way France does not know where it should go, and my 2 10 division armies can march to Paris without a problem in a matter of weeks.

About the lack of activity and all: Take it easy !

Prussia has little to worry about if it allies early with Russia. So during all this time I usually build a small but populous (==North Korea, and from there China) colonial domain. After that I do not have to worry about importing lumber, iron or coal, my steel factories are making HUGE profits

and I can build all the railroads/steamers I need.

Uber 1870 Jahr siegt Deutschland an allen Fronten !!!

Leiv Erikson · 04-06-2004, 11:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Napoleon Rules

If Spain does not choose a Habsbourg (Note: I do not think it is a Hohenzoller)

It is a hohenzoller.

Napoleon Rules · 04-06-2004, 12:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leiv Erikson

It is a hohenzoller.

True !

See link

Memnon · 04-06-2004, 17:12

Hohenzollern that is.

And anyway, Wolf, you can still trigger the event! You can still unify Germany! The deathdate for the event isn't till th end of the game, so as long as you take Paris, you'll get the event (yes, the irony of making the previous statement in this thread has not been lost on me). You can take the city in 1880, 1900, or 1919 and the event, as far as I know, will still fire. So go for it--declare war on France and unify your people!

Darkrenown · 04-06-2004, 19:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComteDeMeighan

Why don't you try Darkrenown's German Unification Mod?

Heres a link http://victoria.nsen.ch/wiki/images/9/99/DR%27s_mod.rar
It Helps to end BB and adds events and stufff

The wiki is down at the moment

Anyway, all he has to do is dow france and take Paris. You don't need to look in the event files for this, a basic knowledge of the period (which I don't think is unreasonable to expect in someone playing a historical stragety game) would tell you how Germany was formed. So I don't see what Wolf is complaining about.

P.Q. Varus · 05-06-2004, 05:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkrenown

....a basic knowledge of the period (which I don't think is unreasonable to expect in someone playing a historical strategy game) would tell you how Germany was formed...

You forget: some of us are Americans (myself included).

The unification of Germany does seem to be one of the trickier challenges in the game, if one has not read on the forum just what the trick is.

After all, the odd American might even know the history in detail, but still be uncertain precisely how that historical event is translated into the game design.

Darkrenown · 05-06-2004, 06:19

Being american is no excuse

And most games don't flash up in big letters what you have to do, imagine meeting the final boss in half life and having "Jump above him and fire rockets down into his brain! Don't forget to dodge the fireballs!" appear on the screen. Anyway, I hope Wolf is enjoying the game again.
Unified yet, wolf?

Waffen9999 · 05-06-2004, 06:56

Of course being American is an excuse. Our horrible education system deprives our young from learning the glorius past of the Fatherland.

Memnon · 05-06-2004, 07:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waffen8888

Of course being American is an excuse. Our horrible education system deprives our young from learning the glorius past of the Fatherland.

Sad, but true. I got kicked out of my Modern European History AP class senior year of high school for pointing out to the teacher that she had gotten to the French Revolution without ever having mentioned the phrases "Seven Years' War" or "Frederick the Great".

She still teaches, by the way, and she still doesn't mention Prussia except as an aside about German unification.

Darkrenown · 05-06-2004, 08:33

And your school allows that? What's the point of teaching history if you're going to miss out vital parts?

Edit: You'll never get me, Memnon!

Nerfix · 05-06-2004, 11:01

My complaint about the German unification is that the AI often fails to achieve this.

Waffen9999 · 05-06-2004, 18:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Memnon

Sad, but true. I got kicked out of my Modern European History AP class senior year of high school for pointing out to the teacher that she had gotten to the French Revolution without ever having mentioned the phrases "Seven Years' War" or "Frederick the Great".

She still teaches, by the way, and she still doesn't mention Prussia except as an aside about German unification.

My Military History teacher despised me to for similar reasons. He had an obsession with the French. Thought any other history wasn't worth it.

Oli le Belge · 05-06-2004, 19:03

I just have to agree with everyone here...but i think it's a problem of IA (wrong choice in the event, event don't occur, crazy wars, no negociation ever, etc...)
BUT, i like the game ( SM me

)

For the moment i play France (Vip mod) what a nightmare...(and it's true during the night i dream about what to do in the game...terrible...)

04-06-2004, 07:32	#1
Wolf Hawken Major Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Lost in Space, near system Wolf 359 Posts: 785	Confused, Laugh, Cry, Howl Well, ok. So these events are MESSED UP. Basically, I don't think the average player should have to be a programmer to play these games. Yeah, I can look at the events, but here's the complaint: I am playing Prussia (maybe this is my problem?) The first time I played I did not have enough manpower for war with Austria in 1866 and promptly died. The second time I played Prussia, things went much better, but I was surprised when the 1860 war with France ended abrubtly. Having played EU, EU2, and HOI, I was attempting to take many French provinces when Paris fell. Anyway, although I united Germany in that game, I had badboy 48.00 and my pop's CON was like 0 from low taxes. With such a badboy, only friendly Russia was going to war. (This also happens in EU2, player badboy high means AI countries stop fighting each other). I figured that WWI was not going to happen, since I was the only kingdom in the world with BB. Anyway, I tried a third time, since the game is worth playing. I can't believe I just wasted an entire evening on this. (Actually, I can.) So, I scoop up Mainz and Hessen from the liberal rev. by DOW them after they pull out of the grand alliance (not like I wanted to, but I needed to ensure badboy was lower than last time. After a war, the factories are usually dead and when I unified Germany the previous time I inherited 20+ factories). Other than Holstien, I am playing rather laid back. Colonizing and Industrializing. 1864 comes along and I increase defense spending to grow recruits for my line formations. In SEP 1865, all units that are about to participate in the upcoming festivities head to the Austrian border. Austria had gone super-Democratic beforehand so I knew I did not have to fight all of the Germanic states this time. (They get a neat flag, though). After spending TWO YEARS raising recruits in manpower, on DEC 15 1865 I increase army spending and raise all combat units to ready-full. Austria is not strong. They had mil rating 22. In late JAN 1866, the event triggers. Austria caves in -- no war. So, I send everyone over to the Rhineland. France is next, right? In the meantime, since I cannot afford to keep my units at max strength for 4 years, I lower army spending to 0 and start regrowing 330,000 recruits in manpower. In late 1869, I am ready. War with France should be interesting since, unlike Austria, France has 1,000,000 in mobilization units. Again, I have regrown my manpower. Now, during this time period, I have built like 1 RR and upgraded a single factory. Colonization is slow. Then, of course, in preparation for a longer fight, research spending is next to nil. I have not made much money during any of this! 1870 - Spain places an Italian on the thrown in succession event (Strange, I have never seen Italy in this game... even a weak Austria, with but 10 divisions, can stop Italy from forming) 1871 - NOTHING HAPPENS 1872 - should I laugh, cry, or quit? NOTHING HAS STILL HAPPENED. There are no N/S german confeds, no war with anyone, and I am sitting on 343,000 in manpower. Defense spending is around 67%. I lost a whole year in research until I realized that the event war with France is not going to happen. My finances are fine but low and I have not built anything for 7 years!, but, um, waiting for an event that will not happen is just plain - AAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH ! Come on, people. If Austria does not contest a Prussian peaceful control over the Germanic states, that should not change the French equation. There has been NO INDICATION as to what I now have to do to unify Germany (other than DOW all my allies). What, I have to go in and read the events like a programmer just to play the game? (yeah, I can do that, but, um, I should not have to). Since there was no war with Austria, (and the event message after they gave in said "great" or something), I have to -KNOW- the events, in the files, and declare war on Austria anyway? Should not things work out (German unification) even if there is no war of 1866? This is just plain crazy. It is bad enough waiting for 'event's' that dictate the flow of the game. Any little deviation and the events do not trigger. If it weren't so gosh darn STUPID I'd laugh. Then again, it is 2 AM and the whole D#$@ night is shot. PS: customers should not have to mod or rewrite the program to play/enjoy the product. It is not my fault that Austria AI has no army. They just have not built any troops or increased mobilization. I mean, what do I have to do to get Germany to unify? (Other than read game program files or mod or rewrite the whole bloody game myself) So, maybe on the 4th play through things will work. Right now, I just don't know ... __________________ "Attack what is weak, not what is strong" - Sun Tzu "If an attack fails, simple reinforcement of strength will most likely also fail, since the enemy will have used the time to also reinforce (a bad plan should not be repeated a second time)" - Sun Tzu Barbarossa by WH - an HOI AAR Need new player help in Victoria? Click Here! and Here!

04-06-2004, 07:35	#2
Wolf Hawken Major Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Lost in Space, near system Wolf 359 Posts: 785	I like the game a lot but sometimes I wonder. __________________ "Attack what is weak, not what is strong" - Sun Tzu "If an attack fails, simple reinforcement of strength will most likely also fail, since the enemy will have used the time to also reinforce (a bad plan should not be repeated a second time)" - Sun Tzu Barbarossa by WH - an HOI AAR Need new player help in Victoria? Click Here! and Here!

04-06-2004, 08:24	#3
ComteDeMeighan Conservative Join Date: May 2002 Location: Commonwealth of Massachusetts, USA Posts: 492	Why don't you try Darkrenown's German Unification Mod? Heres a link http://victoria.nsen.ch/wiki/images/9/99/DR%27s_mod.rar It Helps to end BB and adds events and stufff __________________ But when Territories are acquired in regions where there are differences in language, customs, and laws then great good fortune and much hard work are required to hold them. -Machiavelli, Il Principe, Book III- Like the Legions of Rome the Citizen soldiers of the Republic have left there hearths and stand upon all our nations ramparts and battlements. Our homes left behind again in our struggles against the Barbarians. The sun doesn't set on our soldiers and we must and will prevail! -Captain Tom Gingras, U.S. Army-

04-06-2004, 09:55	#5
Heretic Eigenvalue Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Sinking rapidly Posts: 1,995	No, this guy really has a point. you spend ages playing normally, and then some key event comes up. you don't know which is the 'right' choice to make for what you want to do unless you have already heard about the event. That spoils the whole choice thing, since you are either really expecting what comes up, or don;t know, and cna readily make the wrong choice. that might be ok if it was a game that was quick to replay. but they are not. ah well, i still play relentlessly so why do i complain>? Heretic __________________ Bolivar II A Crown of Ice and Snow Hamburger Royalties

04-06-2004, 10:11	#6
Napoleon Rules Second Lieutenant Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Japan Inc. Posts: 118	@Jorrig : I second that. War with Austria was not needed. If Spain does not choose a Habsbourg (Note: I do not think it is a Hohenzoller) then there is no event-triggered war with France. Well. I unified Germany twice the "historical" way, and I never waited for the event to trigger anyway. If you declare war yourself you can do all the setup (alliances, etc...) at your own pace. I found out it was quite a good idea to declare war in advance (before september 1870) with the objective to occupy Paris in September. Usually I just put a few entranched troops on the 2-3 border provinces and land about 2x10 divisions in Normandy. That way France does not know where it should go, and my 2 10 division armies can march to Paris without a problem in a matter of weeks. About the lack of activity and all: Take it easy ! Prussia has little to worry about if it allies early with Russia. So during all this time I usually build a small but populous (==North Korea, and from there China) colonial domain. After that I do not have to worry about importing lumber, iron or coal, my steel factories are making HUGE profits and I can build all the railroads/steamers I need. Uber 1870 Jahr siegt Deutschland an allen Fronten !!! __________________ A player under the sun.

04-06-2004, 08:53	#4
Jorrig Banned Join Date: Apr 2004 Posts: 272	Well, why didn't you just declare war on France? The Austrian question does not matter for the unification, you just have to conquer Paris. Of course, no one tells you in the game, I understand your problem. On the other hand, if the Spanish place an Italian on their throne, the French need not be angry an go to war for this. They're just angry when the Spanish try to install a Hohenzollern there - a Prussian, after all. My advice: load the game, declare war on France, have fun and conquer Paris! If you hold it for some weeks, the unification event should trigger. If it does not, don't look into the game files, but start again. :-)

04-06-2004, 17:12	#9
Memnon Czar of Texas Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Georgetown University, Washington DC Posts: 3,350	Hohenzollern that is. And anyway, Wolf, you can still trigger the event! You can still unify Germany! The deathdate for the event isn't till th end of the game, so as long as you take Paris, you'll get the event (yes, the irony of making the previous statement in this thread has not been lost on me). You can take the city in 1880, 1900, or 1919 and the event, as far as I know, will still fire. So go for it--declare war on France and unify your people! __________________ The Pharaoh and the Prophet - An Egyptian Caliphal AAR - Winner of a award! - - See puny Egypt revive the Islamic Caliphate...and kick butt in the process. Download the New Victoria Manual and Strategy Guide or contribute to its comments thread. The manual is also available in Spanish, Japanese, and Italian. Looking for a Victoria patch or a user-made mod? Click here for a directory. Visit VickyWiki - your online source for Victoria guides, tables, and strategy tips.

05-06-2004, 06:19	#12
Darkrenown Reichsmarschall Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Marching to Moscow Posts: 14,420	Being american is no excuse And most games don't flash up in big letters what you have to do, imagine meeting the final boss in half life and having "Jump above him and fire rockets down into his brain! Don't forget to dodge the fireballs!" appear on the screen. Anyway, I hope Wolf is enjoying the game again. Unified yet, wolf? __________________ Relentless madman. Byzantium – A tale of restoration and reconquest. Venice: War and trade. HttT beta AAR. (pics should be working again now) Unofficial HttT fixes. No longer needed with 4.1, but if you've been using this and now have 4.1 you need to undo a change. HRE reforms mod. Making it harder to unite the HRE. Bonus magistrates from Universitys and roads. Auto-build roads. Latest HttT beta patch: 22nd dec.

05-06-2004, 06:56	#13
Waffen9999 Supreme Soviet Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Bringing Socialism to the masses Posts: 3,137	Of course being American is an excuse. Our horrible education system deprives our young from learning the glorius past of the Fatherland. __________________ "There is no avoiding war. It can only be postponed, to the advantage of others." - Niccolo Machiavelli "It is to Belgutei's strength and Kasar's prowess as an archer that I owe the conquest of the World Empire." - Genghis Khan "You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours" -Charles James Napier "Where some states have an army, the Prussian Army has a State" -Voltaire

05-06-2004, 08:33	#15
Darkrenown Reichsmarschall Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Marching to Moscow Posts: 14,420	And your school allows that? What's the point of teaching history if you're going to miss out vital parts? Edit: You'll never get me, Memnon! __________________ Relentless madman. Byzantium – A tale of restoration and reconquest. Venice: War and trade. HttT beta AAR. (pics should be working again now) Unofficial HttT fixes. No longer needed with 4.1, but if you've been using this and now have 4.1 you need to undo a change. HRE reforms mod. Making it harder to unite the HRE. Bonus magistrates from Universitys and roads. Auto-build roads. Latest HttT beta patch: 22nd dec.

05-06-2004, 11:01	#16
Nerfix Pirate Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Multi-function house, Amazonas Posts: 1,028	My complaint about the German unification is that the AI often fails to achieve this.

05-06-2004, 19:03	#18
Oli le Belge Duc de Liebstadt, 1807 Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: dans le plat pays qui est le mien [et qui lentement agonise...] Posts: 2,061	I just have to agree with everyone here...but i think it's a problem of IA (wrong choice in the event, event don't occur, crazy wars, no negociation ever, etc...) BUT, i like the game ( SM me ) For the moment i play France (Vip mod) what a nightmare...(and it's true during the night i dream about what to do in the game...terrible...)