1421: China in America

Sounds very interesting, if a little wacky.

As to the Incan belief of a limited number of emperors before tad tum tad, why not create a whole series of events where the Spanish find them, and then the Chinese realise that their trading partner is being taken away from them, and salvage the southern half of the incas while the Spanish have taken the northern half.

Have you read the Kim Stanley Robinson book 'The Years of Rice and Salt'? There's a scenario around about it, but basically Europe is destroyed by the Black Plague leaving the world to the Indians, Muslims and China. In it Robinson details a Chinese fleet being caught in the current that circles the Pacific. The current pulls the fleet around the northern Pacific and the Chinese land on the west coast of North America, later sailing further south to meet the Aztec & Inca peoples. The fleet (or rather what's left of it) makes it back to China with tales of huge amounts of gold, leading to a Spanish-type scenario with the Chinese moving in. I think your idea of a trading partnership is more interesting than just replacing Spain with China, but at least Robinson has a possible explanation for how Chinese sailers could reach the Americas. Funnily enough I actually tried something similar just by altering save-game files in an AGCEEP 1.08 game due to my interest in the Robinson book, giving the Inca and Chinese knowledge of each other's capitals and a sea route between the two countries along with the Inca getting the China tech group. It was quite fun, I played the Inca, holding off the Spaniards and then using the AGCEEP Inca explorer to colonise Tahiti and later on in the game Australia. It was quite amusing to see elite Incan troops (Land & Quality levels at 10) participating as an allied contingent in the second Chinese invasion of Japan...

Yes there's three major current systems in the Pacific, one in the North, one in the South and one on the equator. www.physicalgeography.net has some pretty good pictures of these. I wouldn't mind a China/Inca conflict, I just wouldn't want it to be a direct Spanish-substitution sort of affair. I think it would be fairly easy to have some sort of diplomatic problem fall into a small conflict, but it would be easy to have the conflict sputter out following a quick Chinese victory or due to the sheer distance involved. Then you can have some sort of event series for the Inca having the 'Value of Gold' type events followed by purchases of horses and other new tech, possibly some +500 Infrastructure/ + 500 trade events as well and the Chinese could have some events where they get some ducats and naval tech. Later game maybe the Chinese could work with the Inca to counter the Portugese, with Inca guerilla tactics against Portugese-Brazil after Portugal moves into southern China etc. I'm sure there's a whole lot that could be done. Actually I loved your Rise of the Condor AAR and it may have been part of my inspiration for my little save-game editing adventure. I also created a little event for an Inca discovery of the Amazon river which basically involved a conquistador (to go down the central south american corridor) to simulate a party of Inca travelling down the river to the Atlantic similarly to a group of Spaniards who did so in real life. This was kind of cool cause then Inca can set up colonies at the river mouth where the Portugese and Spanish AI rarely does (at least in my experience) although it does take a hell of a lot of infantry casualties to fight your way through the psycho natives. But it's better than sitting there with the time on fast while you wait for a random event!

A few months ago I had plans for a thing like this but then the ACW and ATF scenarios came on my path.

Within a few weeks, when I have read the book, it is allready in my bookcase, I will join you.

Mike von Bek said:

More ideas!

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Well' I think in the end we need to turn around the major positions in the world a bit. China has to take the role of Spain, France and England all in one. Will be a cracker.

I've read the book, too (at Mosby's suggestion). I don't think Menzies is right on the mapping of the new world and Antarctica (particularly) (much of it seems to be "someone had to have in order to get these early portolan maps") and I have read other, perhaps more feasible (in my mind) explanations, but I like the idea nonetheless. I'll help where I can. And I'm back, so I'll have to change my sig.

A possible instigation for a Chinese attack could be a royal family style civil war similar to the one already in the game, with two brothers contesting the throne, one of which seeks support from the Chinese. The Chinese could be granted lands or huge amounts of gold in return for supplying one candidate with troops, iron weapons etc.

As for discovering the Aztecs first, well I see no reason why a Chinese expedition couldn't be on the receiving end of some very hostile behaviour by the Aztecs.

Attacking the Chinese delegates on the beaches or taking them prisoner and cutting out their hearts is a pretty good way of detering any kind of government interaction! A slightly more civilised meeting with the Inca would probably result in the Chinese deciding to ignore the Aztecs in favour of Inca, especially if they were not initially aware of the Aztecs having just as much gold.

And as the esteemed Singleton Mosby said we would have to have some sort of scenario for how the European powers would react to finding China in the New World as well.

On a strictly OT note, Mike what are you still doing awake. I'm in Canberra (in what you WA residents quaintly refer to as 'The East') and even with the time difference that means you're up late. I've got an excuse cause I work nights, don't you have work or school or something to do in the mornings? Not that I mind you understand, it gives me something to do while I'm here, other than working of course

Hum... What if instead of creating a whole new scenario (or along with it) this would be an event for AGC? Something like "Strange Yellow Man from the Sea - should we contact them?" for the Incas, or "Lost Expedition Returns With Tales of Another Continent - should we belive such tales?" for the Chinese - both with the 5% clasical chance for the AI to accept.

Zheng He`s Eastern Voyage

http://www.alternatehistory.com/dtormsen/ZHEastVoyage.htm

Mike von Bek said:

That is an extraordinarily good timeline, bar Aztec rather than Inca. We can fix that quite quickly though. Thanks Lucky 13!

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Lucky :wacko:

No problem