Something I dont understand

MrBleeble · 22-03-2004, 14:32

Ok. I have been thinking about this and I have come to the conclusion that something is wrong. I dont get any cash for my exports on the WM, I only get the option of putting tariffs on them....but those are MY resources and goods that I had to trade for with my *own* money or use my *own* money to build factories to produce and convert pops to work in! Shouldnt I be able to trade them myself? I get exports of 10000+ as Germany but I dont get any of this money myself when I am trading away MY goods....I dont understand that....and with my population reaching 750,000,000 I need a lot of money for my reforms (9000+)

Who owns the factories? If they are privately owned then I can understand only getting the tariffs but since I paid the money to build them I assume otherwise! It doesnt really make sense....

Another thing I dont get is that the UK has an army of 750 divisions and 700+ ships. With my army of 250 I am paying something like 2000 in maintenance and the same in defense spending. My exports are 10000 and theirs are 7000 and they have a far smaller population (300m) to tax (but worse reforms), and yet I can barely support an army 1/3 the size of theirs? Is the AI cheating again? because that sucks....the same goes for Austria who have a total population of only 100,000,000, exports of only 2000 but can somehow afford 445 units and 45 ships! What on earth?

rafiki · 22-03-2004, 14:40

Income from exports go to your POPs, whom you in turn can tax to get money.

AFAIK, the AI doesn't cheat, but it has proven quite good at maintaining large armies, at times to the extent of crippling its' economy at home.

Rafiki

*Derek Pullem* · 22-03-2004, 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBleeble

Ok. I have been thinking about this and I have come to the conclusion that something is wrong. I dont get any cash for my exports on the WM, I only get the option of putting tariffs on them....but those are MY resources and goods that I had to trade for with my *own* money or use my *own* money to build factories to produce and convert pops to work in! Shouldnt I be able to trade them myself? I get exports of 10000+ as Germany but I dont get any of this money myself when I am trading away MY goods....I dont understand that....and with my population reaching 750,000,000 I need a lot of money for my reforms (9000+)

Who owns the factories? If they are privately owned then I can understand only getting the tariffs but since I paid the money to build them I assume otherwise! It doesnt really make sense....

Another thing I dont get is that the UK has an army of 750 divisions and 700+ ships. With my army of 250 I am paying something like 2000 in maintenance and the same in defense spending. My exports are 10000 and theirs are 7000 and they have a far smaller population (300m) to tax (but worse reforms), and yet I can barely support an army 1/3 the size of theirs? Is the AI cheating again? because that sucks....the same goes for Austria who have a total population of only 100,000,000, exports of only 2000 but can somehow afford 445 units and 45 ships! What on earth?

Those division counts and pop numbers sound suspiciously like version 1.01. Have you patched to 1.03 yet?

Are you taxing the poor at 100% - the AI will if it can. Max tariffs - the AI will most of the time. Those ships will often be at min maintenance until a war kicks off.

With respect to your factories.

You build them and your profit comes back to you in a tax on the value of their production. Tariffs are a tax on imported goods bought by your POPs with their wages - which is what is left after you have taken the profit / tax away

Tordenskiold · 22-03-2004, 14:59

The UK and Austria probably have much lower social expenses compared to you, thus enabeling them to afford a larger army. Have you checked the size of they're armies? It is no problem maintaining large army if you dont spend much on maintainance. The result is smaller divisions that can be expanded on in times of war.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBleeble

Ok. I have been thinking about this and I have come to the conclusion that something is wrong. I dont get any cash for my exports on the WM, I only get the option of putting tariffs on them....but those are MY resources and goods that I had to trade for with my *own* money or use my *own* money to build factories to produce and convert pops to work in! Shouldnt I be able to trade them myself? I get exports of 10000+ as Germany but I dont get any of this money myself when I am trading away MY goods....I dont understand that....and with my population reaching 750,000,000 I need a lot of money for my reforms (9000+)

Who owns the factories? If they are privately owned then I can understand only getting the tariffs but since I paid the money to build them I assume otherwise! It doesnt really make sense....

Another thing I dont get is that the UK has an army of 750 divisions and 700+ ships. With my army of 250 I am paying something like 2000 in maintenance and the same in defense spending. My exports are 10000 and theirs are 7000 and they have a far smaller population (300m) to tax (but worse reforms), and yet I can barely support an army 1/3 the size of theirs? Is the AI cheating again? because that sucks....the same goes for Austria who have a total population of only 100,000,000, exports of only 2000 but can somehow afford 445 units and 45 ships! What on earth?

Chris77Se · 22-03-2004, 14:59

I dont think, that the AI cheats at maintaining its armies. There are several things you can do to keep your maintainance cost low:

1) In peacetimes always minimize maintainance.
2) Defense spending is only required to get manpower, i. e. only if you want to build new units or need leadership points, spending money here is necessary. Depending on your government, you will have to allocate some money here. If you population is big enough, this minimal spending is enough to build a few divisons a year.
3) in wartimes cut money on crimefighting and education (keep 50%, that literacy doent decrease) and maybe raise taxes a little bit to fund your army.

Also the AI seems to depend heavily on loans, which you can see, when the industrial score of a country decreases. If you fight agains an uncivilised nation, the score sometimes goes deep into negative numbers.

The main problem with this is, that your divisons dont have their full fighting strenght at the beginning of the war. So, if you start the war by yourself, you will need some time to bring all divisions to fighting power.

If you are attacked... hope that you can hold of the enemy long enough till you mobilize or get your standing army up

MrBleeble · 22-03-2004, 17:34

I am using 1.03

but this game *was* started on 1.01 I think....

If I put maintenance to 0 wont the divisions disappear? I have a lot of territory and as a result there are a lot of revolts to deal with in far flung places!

Chris77Se · 22-03-2004, 17:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBleeble

I am using 1.03

but this game *was* started on 1.01 I think....

If I put maintenance to 0 wont the divisions disappear? I have a lot of territory and as a result there are a lot of revolts to deal with in far flung places!

No, they will have 1900 men for divs with no brigades and 2280 for divs with brigades. The morale is also only 50% then, but if you have a decent army tech, its sufficient for most revolts, especially, if your troops are defending.

Dalwin · 23-03-2004, 00:39

Realistically you should picture those as private factories even though you selected them and paid for them and placed them. If the game did not let you have that degree of control over economic expansion it would feel a lot more as if the AI were playing and you were just along for the ride.

This is in my opinion the main reason why communism seems a useless form of government in Vic. That degree of control over factory production should only exist in an authoritarian state. Since all government types get that degree of control there is not much if any advantage left to give to communist governments.

22-03-2004, 14:32	#1
MrBleeble Second Lieutenant Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 162	Something I dont understand Ok. I have been thinking about this and I have come to the conclusion that something is wrong. I dont get any cash for my exports on the WM, I only get the option of putting tariffs on them....but those are MY resources and goods that I had to trade for with my own money or use my own money to build factories to produce and convert pops to work in! Shouldnt I be able to trade them myself? I get exports of 10000+ as Germany but I dont get any of this money myself when I am trading away MY goods....I dont understand that....and with my population reaching 750,000,000 I need a lot of money for my reforms (9000+) Who owns the factories? If they are privately owned then I can understand only getting the tariffs but since I paid the money to build them I assume otherwise! It doesnt really make sense.... Another thing I dont get is that the UK has an army of 750 divisions and 700+ ships. With my army of 250 I am paying something like 2000 in maintenance and the same in defense spending. My exports are 10000 and theirs are 7000 and they have a far smaller population (300m) to tax (but worse reforms), and yet I can barely support an army 1/3 the size of theirs? Is the AI cheating again? because that sucks....the same goes for Austria who have a total population of only 100,000,000, exports of only 2000 but can somehow afford 445 units and 45 ships! What on earth?

22-03-2004, 14:40	#2
rafiki Monkeyboy Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Norway Posts: 8,278	Income from exports go to your POPs, whom you in turn can tax to get money. AFAIK, the AI doesn't cheat, but it has proven quite good at maintaining large armies, at times to the extent of crippling its' economy at home. Rafiki __________________ . VickyWiki .:\|\|:. HOI2Wiki .:\|\|:. AACWWiki Research And Facts, I'm Keenly Insane This mark entitles the bearer to have beer bought by Lurken ●

22-03-2004, 14:59	#5
Chris77Se Sergeant Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Dresden Posts: 53	I dont think, that the AI cheats at maintaining its armies. There are several things you can do to keep your maintainance cost low: 1) In peacetimes always minimize maintainance. 2) Defense spending is only required to get manpower, i. e. only if you want to build new units or need leadership points, spending money here is necessary. Depending on your government, you will have to allocate some money here. If you population is big enough, this minimal spending is enough to build a few divisons a year. 3) in wartimes cut money on crimefighting and education (keep 50%, that literacy doent decrease) and maybe raise taxes a little bit to fund your army. Also the AI seems to depend heavily on loans, which you can see, when the industrial score of a country decreases. If you fight agains an uncivilised nation, the score sometimes goes deep into negative numbers. The main problem with this is, that your divisons dont have their full fighting strenght at the beginning of the war. So, if you start the war by yourself, you will need some time to bring all divisions to fighting power. If you are attacked... hope that you can hold of the enemy long enough till you mobilize or get your standing army up

22-03-2004, 17:34	#6
MrBleeble Second Lieutenant Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 162	I am using 1.03 but this game was started on 1.01 I think.... If I put maintenance to 0 wont the divisions disappear? I have a lot of territory and as a result there are a lot of revolts to deal with in far flung places!

23-03-2004, 00:39	#8
Dalwin Lt. General Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: North Dakota Posts: 1,557	Realistically you should picture those as private factories even though you selected them and paid for them and placed them. If the game did not let you have that degree of control over economic expansion it would feel a lot more as if the AI were playing and you were just along for the ride. This is in my opinion the main reason why communism seems a useless form of government in Vic. That degree of control over factory production should only exist in an authoritarian state. Since all government types get that degree of control there is not much if any advantage left to give to communist governments.